Interact with quality martial artists.

[drop bear]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

 

[Blindside]

Absolutely! And even if you get pretty big in that pond, you go find a pond of a range that you aren't good at, and you get to start all over again.

 

[Chris Parker]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Look, not to be argumentative, but… this is news to you? This is the basic, underlying concept of, well, how martial arts (and many, many other pursuits) have been trained for centuries… it's hardly under-rated, it's essential and fundamental to the structure of development and learning.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

The idea of "fight them" isn't really essential at all… it can be (and I'd suggest it is) in sporting systems, as that's a major part of the development methodology there… but finding people better than you that you can learn from, including being "humbled by" (which doesn't necessarily mean anything to do with fighting), sure… but this is hardly new, or news.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

Only if your idea of learning, or development (or training… or conversation… or any interaction) is based on "winning"…

 

[Transk53]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

Yeah good philosophy. I would say that one has to be humble enough to learn anything, well actually absorb would be better. A person could be in danger of just scrapping, which does not really do very much other add a few scars imho.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have talked about this before on MT, so what the heck why not talk about it again.

About 20 years ago I was use to get together with a bunch of martial artists on Saturday afternoons and basically beta the heck out of each other, no attitudes (they didn't last long if you showed up with one), no anger, a lot of fun and you learned a heck of a lot.

We all had different backgrounds and many of us came from different styles, Taiji, TKD, Kenpo, Mantis, Aikido, Judo, Karate, etc. I don't ever remember anyone getting upset losing or making a big show of winning. I won a few and I lost a few, I learned respect for Aikido there and I took the greatest (and coolest) beating of my sparing life there from a Southern Mantis guy. Also got beat pretty good by an American Kempo guy too as well as shown just how good and devastating a good fake cam be from a tkd guy. I also learned that most had no idea how to defend against a good Xingyiquan Piquan, but then that was all the xingyi I knew then so they learned how to avoid it and I learned you can't keep doing the same damn thing over and over again....it hurts .

We did no underrate that experience we thought it was incredible and 20 years later I miss it, but there was a lot of learning going on there and there were more than a few quality MAist there too

 

[Transk53]

I have talked about this before on MT, so what the heck why not talk about it again.

About 20 years ago I was use to get together with a bunch of martial artists on Saturday afternoons and basically beta the heck out of each other, no attitudes (they didn't last long if you showed up with one), no anger, a lot of fun and you learned a heck of a lot.

We all had different backgrounds and many of us came from different styles, Taiji, TKD, Kenpo, Mantis, Aikido, Judo, Karate, etc. I don't ever remember anyone getting upset losing or making a big show of winning. I won a few and I lost a few, I learned respect for Aikido there and I took the greatest (and coolest) beating of my sparing life there from a Southern Mantis guy. Also got beat pretty good by an American Kempo guy too as well as shown just how good and devastating a good fake cam be from a tkd guy. I also learned that most had no idea how to defend against a good Xingyiquan Piquan, but then that was all the xingyi I knew then so they learned how to avoid it and I learned you can't keep doing the same damn thing over and over again....it hurts .

We did no underrate that experience we thought it was incredible and 20 years later I miss it, but there was a lot of learning going on there and there were more than a few quality MAist there too

Obviously from my background, training and such like was a little different. Well I say that, but not sure if I can present a qualified answer. As drop bear has alluded to with the OP, you can learn a tremendous amount by putting yourself into a sparring scenario or a friendly bout. At my last boarding school, it was all the rage to test each other. 30 odd years ago that was, but still remember with fondness

 

[drop bear]

The idea of "fight them" isn't really essential at all… it can be (and I'd suggest it is) in sporting systems, as that's a major part of the development methodology there… but finding people better than you that you can learn from, including being "humbled by" (which doesn't necessarily mean anything to do with fighting), sure… but this is hardly new, or news

No you have to fight them otherwise you cant really learn what they have to teach. We can all come up with great ideas. We cant all make them work.

Separates the doers from the talkers.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah good philosophy. I would say that one has to be humble enough to learn anything, well actually absorb would be better. A person could be in danger of just scrapping, which does not really do very much other add a few scars imho.

it could happen.We have had scrappers. I have been towelled up by scrappers. And that is humbling.

I used to struggle with strong spazzy guys.

But my game has changed to be able to deal with scrappers and i am better for it.

 

[drop bear]

Look, not to be argumentative, but… this is news to you? This is the basic, underlying concept of, well, how martial arts (and many, many other pursuits) have been trained for centuries… it's hardly under-rated, it's essential and fundamental to the structure of development and learning.



The idea of "fight them" isn't really essential at all… it can be (and I'd suggest it is) in sporting systems, as that's a major part of the development methodology there… but finding people better than you that you can learn from, including being "humbled by" (which doesn't necessarily mean anything to do with fighting), sure… but this is hardly new, or news.



Only if your idea of learning, or development (or training… or conversation… or any interaction) is based on "winning"…

Just instinctively is isn't very nice to jump in with someone and get bashed or manhandled. It is hard work. For us there is always that guy who is going to give me a dog fight every time.(normally our coaches) And when i am tired and beat up and looking for a partner i legitimately want to go for the guy i wont have to work as hard on.

Especially when they are tapering up for a fight and they are sparring hard,not eating,and have their work face on.

 

[Chris Parker]

No you have to fight them otherwise you cant really learn what they have to teach. We can all come up with great ideas. We cant all make them work.

Separates the doers from the talkers.

No, you don't. Not all martial arts work the same way. To get good at Kyudo, you need to work with those who know it better than you (quality Kyudoka)… you don't have to "fight" them.

Seriously, there's a lot more to martial arts than the small area you're familiar with. At this point, you're simply a frog in a well, to use a Japanese idiom…

Just instinctively is isn't very nice to jump in with someone and get bashed or manhandled. It is hard work. For us there is always that guy who is going to give me a dog fight every time.(normally our coaches) And when i am tired and beat up and looking for a partner i legitimately want to go for the guy i wont have to work as hard on.

Especially when they are tapering up for a fight and they are sparring hard,not eating,and have their work face on.

Yeah… that's your situation… and, frankly, it's only one application of the idea you're talking about. I agree with your overall idea (as I said, it's just the standard way you improve in general), but the way it's done is very different in different systems and contexts. Believe me, it's not very nice to be on the receiving end of correction from a senior in Koryu either… it's plenty humbling, and no "fighting" is needed. Frankly, you'll get pulled apart in a much more devastating manner that way than from any sparring match.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Is possibly one of the more underrated concepts relating to martial arts advancement and personal advancement.

Find good fighters. Fight them. And be humbled by them. A constant quest to be the small fish in the big pond.

Which i accept is hard because it is much nicer to win all the time.

Well yes, that is how you learn, by taking on challenges and sometimes, if not quite often, losing. If you always win you don't learn anything and you don't make improvement.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Old saying in Chinese Martial Arts..... Invest in loss

 

[RTKDCMB]

No you have to fight them otherwise you cant really learn what they have to teach.

So are you basically saying you can't learn from someone unless you are fighting them?

 

[Danny T]

No you have to fight them otherwise you cant really learn what they have to teach.

NO, no, no!! Disagree completely with this. Have learned a huge amount from my instructors without having fought them. That's not to say I haven't learn from sparring but it was After learning from my instructors, practicing what was instructed, sparred it, reassessed, practiced some more fine tuning and again sparred it again. Learned far more from the fine tuning during practice than sparring. Sparring allowed me to know the when to use it not the how.

 

[Transk53]

So are you basically saying you can't learn from someone unless you are fighting them?

I think what he means is that under certain conditions, fighting would allow a bigger perspective on what has been taught.

 

[Buka]

Fighting/rolling/sparring those better than you can certainly help your game ("can", but not always)

But training and studying under them will usually help you more. (as long as they can teach) Besides, if you study under them you'll be sparring with them anyway.

And it's all so much fun!

 

[drop bear]

So are you basically saying you can't learn from someone unless you are fighting them?

No.but I still have to fight someone good. So i can learn a move of youtube. But the test is when i can do it. And it is the quality of that guy that raises my standards.

 

[drop bear]

NO, no, no!! Disagree completely with this. Have learned a huge amount from my instructors without having fought them. That's not to say I haven't learn from sparring but it was After learning from my instructors, practicing what was instructed, sparred it, reassessed, practiced some more fine tuning and again sparred it again. Learned far more from the fine tuning during practice than sparring. Sparring allowed me to know the when to use it not the how.

I do kind of mean sparring as well. And sparring someone good. Getting a move of on a noob is not the same as getting one off on a quality guy.

 

[drop bear]

No, you don't. Not all martial arts work the same way. To get good at Kyudo, you need to work with those who know it better than you (quality Kyudoka)… you don't have to "fight" them.

Seriously, there's a lot more to martial arts than the small area you're familiar with. At this point, you're simply a frog in a well, to use a Japanese idiom…

You probably train differently for different results.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah… that's your situation… and, frankly, it's only one application of the idea you're talking about. I agree with your overall idea (as I said, it's just the standard way you improve in general), but the way it's done is very different in different systems and contexts. Believe me, it's not very nice to be on the receiving end of correction from a senior in Koryu either… it's plenty humbling, and no "fighting" is needed. Frankly, you'll get pulled apart in a much more devastating manner that way than from any sparring match.

Honestly i doubt that.