Less worryed to fight martial artist then street fighter.

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by believer
l've just recently been interested in Asian Martial Arts. I dont know much about Eastern Wrestling, most wrestling I learned is of the West (mostly studied ones of Greek, German, or slavic Origins), is it just as old as kungfu?? Can someone tell me the difference between eastern and western wrestling???

as for defeating my instructor, i seriously doubt i can.

There's not a whole lot of a difference.

You have to understand, that there is no such thing as just "Asian" wrestling and "Western" wrestling. For instance, I wouldn't consider Russian wrestling in the same category as Swiss wrestling, etc. Basically, ALL wrestling systems are based on the same principles, just have their own unique twists. There's the many types of Mongolian wrestling which can be compared with catch-as-catch can, there's Korean wrestling which is very similiar to freestyle, shuai chiao which emphasizes a bit more on speed. These are all general terms, and it wouldn't do justice but usually, it fits.

One thing I can tell you is that some western wrestling styles focus a bit more on double-leg takedowns while Eastern styles tend to throw, like locks, joint manipulation, single legs, trips, etc. That is very broad and not specific. And those differences are VERY minute, and the emphasis isn't that much of a difference. It's not like the western wrestling systems don't throw, or that the eastern styles don't do double legs.

A guy once pointed out that the stance was the biggest difference. The stance is not dependent on the style, but by the person. I personally liked the Russian stance, as it suited me best.

 

[believer]

its funny that there isnt a lot of difference. Because at the time the western cultures started developing wrestling before they had any contact with eastern cultures (I cant say when Asians had wrestling, cause i dont know). Its amazing how two cultures so isolated from each other can think alike in that sense.

Ive just recently heard of mongolian wrestling. Mongolians took almost all of eastern europe much after europeans had wrestling. was mongolian wrestling influenced by the west??

bleh, to keep the reply on focus to the topic, i still am not sure if a martial artist is any more deadly then a street fighter, but this is my opinion, and is not valid in any way

 

[fringe_dweller]

This has probably been mentioned before, but just because someone has had no MA training doesn't mean they haven't been in a lot of fights.... Who would you rather fight, someone who has learned what works the hard way or someone who thinks they know what works?

JK, if what you're trying to say is you'd rather fight someone with a bit of MA training (as opposed to someone who has been training for a long time and is truly a "martial artist") then I would agree. Someone who has only been training for a little while and who hasn't really made the techniques their own, trying to remember correct footwork and body mechanics is going to be much easier to take down than someone who is just acting from instinct.

Respectfully,

 

[Zepp]

The best post on this topic on Bullshido.com was by far the one from Stoogejitsu:

I personally find it easier to win a spelling contest against judo kid, than to fight a martial artist.

:rofl:

believer,
Wrestling is most definitely a martial art,- a martial sport at the very least.

The purpose of having you spar that brown belt should have been to have the brown belt teach you. If you feel that he wasn't showing enough control, then you should definitely express this concern to your instructor.

My TKD instructor's first response to a student doing what you did would probably have been to laugh his *** off. He then would have explained that you should limit yourself to striking techniques for the time being, because that's what he's trying to teach you at your level. He also might express his concern for both you and your partner's safety.

I would guess (and hope) that you instructor had similar reasons for telling you not to fight that way.

As for the original point of this thread: If I had a choice between fighting one of my fellow black belts in a fight to the death, or some gang banger who's won a few scraps, I'm pretty sure I'd take the gang banger. (Assuming I know he's unarmed that is.)

 

[bob919]

i finds alot of seasoned martialartists (inc blackbelts) lose all their training after a couple of punches an d throw long swinging punches losing all control but treet fighter can keep their composure better usually

 

[Zujitsuka]

I also feel that a street thug is more dangerous than your typical martial artist. Mostly because they are unpredictable and highly motivated to cause you bodily harm. Hey, it is what they do.

 

[fist of fury]

Originally posted by bob919
your friend was too vicsious his life was hardly in danger


Originally posted by Jill666
How would he know that? A stranger has just attacked him. I stand by my statement.

I agree with jill on this one I'd fight the same way.

 

[KanoLives]

I think anyone can lose on any given day. Martial Arts training or not.

:asian:

 

[bob919]

Originally posted by fist of fury
I agree with jill on this one I'd fight the same way.

he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

 

[sweeper]

Originally posted by bob919
he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

Personaly I think the choice of deffence against an attack can only be gauged by the deffender.. Like you said you weren't there, but an eye gauge isn't all that big of a deal.. yes it can blind, but it won't nessisaraly, not unless your realy get a finger in there and jerk they eyeball to disconnect the optic nerv.

Personaly if I blinded someone in self deffence I probably wouldn't be all that upset.. I mean yes there is that realisation that you just inflicted some major dammage and perhaps in some way it could have been avoided.. But I would never risk my life or a freinds life because I wanted to be gentle to an attacker.. There is no excuse for attacking someone, drunk or not.. I don't care if jills freind was hitting on the guys girl freind or insulting his mother, if you bring a conflict to a physical level you have to accept ALL consequences.

If the drunk is blind today he braught it on himself.

 

[Master of Blades]

Originally posted by bob919
he was a drunk attacking alone whereas jills friend had jill there both trained in MA he could probably have pushed the drunk off an eye gouge is life or death only. if you blinded someone like that how would you feel ?

obvioulsy i dont know the full story and everyone has his own opinion but i would hold out the eye gouges unless i was depserate

I personally have my instructors view that if anyone lays their hand on me they can expect a poke to the eye or boot to the nuts or something of major pain. The fact that we DONT know whether our life is in danger when we are attacked means we HAVE to presume the worst. If you are attacked you fight to survive.....:asian:

 

[bob919]

i guess i see your point cause for all he knows the drunk mght have a knife in his pocket or something

 

[Jill666]

BTW, I forgot to mention the guy had an Army Ranger sticker on his car.

Just food for thought.

 

[KennethKu]

It isn't a question of how you would feel about causing severe injury. It is what legal liability you might face arising from your use of deadly force. If someone obviously has too much to drink shoved you and you inflicted severe injury, be prepared to be held accountable for your action in court. There is this thing called appropriate use of force. The legal test isn't based on what your instructor told you or what your bravdo tells you. It is going to be what the law of the land says.

 

[Matt Stone]

Maybe I'm just in a mood right now, but this thought occurred to me as I was opening the MT messages in my email inbox...

If street fighters are so much more efficient fighters, and some of the folks here have so much respect for their abilities and skills, what the hell are they doing training in martial arts? They should instead be spending their time "street fighting," whatever that is...

It seems to me to be desperately hypocritical for a martial artist to say that martial arts training is inferior to the abilities of a person who certainly does have a number of "real" fights under their belt, and who has likely won more than a few of them, but who also has no formal training, no understanding of their so-called skills beyond "hit the other guy first" (and often after making use of tricks to equalize the battlefield rather than relying on superior technique and skill), and no real method of practicing beyond getting into fights...

And the caveat of "well, my martial arts training, and my skills aren't what I was referring to" simply won't float, since the original post was posted in the first person, not as an indictment of generic minimall dojos.

Just a thought.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[MartialArtist]

Well, two real martial artists would probably never get into a fight. People with a huge ego who call themselves martial artists will never really see their potential as a direct result of their ego.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by MartialArtist
Well, two real martial artists would probably never get into a fight.

A couple of thoughts, fueled by my rather dark mood currently...

1 - two "real" martial artists would neither fight each other nor place themselves in situations conducive to requiring a "demonstration" of their skill to extricate them.

2 - if a street punk fought a "real" martial artist, you wouldn't call it a fight... A fight is where two parties engage in mutual combat. Street punk makes a move, martial artist punishes him brutally. No fighting, just pain, pain, and more pain...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Jill666]

I can't find any nits to pick, although I imagine someone will argue-

Unless you want a spin-off thread about the differences between martial artists and jerk-offs who attend martial arts classes.

Nah- been done before. :shrug:

I think if all MA schools had the kind of standards I would want to be held to, this discussion wouldn't even happen. ALL students of a certain rank would be proficient and dangerous. But I guess that's too much to ask.

Oops-

:soapbox:

 

[redfang]

I haven't gotten the impression that anyone here really has said that martial arts training is inferior to the experience that someone gets fighting in their neighborhood as part of day to day life, streetfighting I guess. In my post way back when, I was warning against underestimating someone because they aren't formally trained. Some people are naturals at sports. Similarly, some are very good natural fighters without any formal training. I think it's wise to avoid stereotypes such as the 'street punk' when mentally preparing for a fight. When the fight comes, you just have the individuals with their abilities, mind sets, skills etc.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
A couple of thoughts, fueled by my rather dark mood currently...

1 - two "real" martial artists would neither fight each other nor place themselves in situations conducive to requiring a "demonstration" of their skill to extricate them.

2 - if a street punk fought a "real" martial artist, you wouldn't call it a fight... A fight is where two parties engage in mutual combat. Street punk makes a move, martial artist punishes him brutally. No fighting, just pain, pain, and more pain...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

I would still consider it a fight, a fight does not always have to be mutual.