ANY Fighting Style can work if you train it right.

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DaveB

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yea they all work when you have a slow motion training partner holding his arm out so you can trap it

Troll. You are just trolling now.

You wanted to know how to identify the wing chun that won a boxing match. You get that from an instructor who not only advocates sparring but who puts fighters into mma matches and your only comment is that what he shows only works on a compliant partner?

Troll. You are just trolling now.
 
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drop bear

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As I was watching I thought it might help those less inclined to educate themselves.
The entire series of answers to common questions covers the use and appearance of their wing chun.

Alan Orr echoes my comments regarding the TMA tendency to work based on principles rather than techniques and details how he uses the principles of his art in a practical form.

That is fine but one system doesnt make all systems.Some arts have stupid principles.
 

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Troll. You are just trolling now.

You wanted to know how to identify the wing chun that won a boxing match. You get that from an instructor who not only advocates sparring but who puts fighters into mma matches and your only comment is that what he shows only works on a compliant partner?

Troll. You are just trolling now.
no my comment was he only SHOWS it working on a complient partner,

yes all,styles will work if your stooge just stands there with his arm out, is that what you ment when you started this thread. ?You should have said so
 

drop bear

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no my comment was he only SHOWS it working on a complient partner,

yes all,styles will work if your stooge just stands there with his arm out, is that what you ment when you started this thread. ?You should have said so

OK. Here not so much. The demonstration against a live oponant is the fights his guys win. The demo is the method he is using.

Alan Orr's fighters do win fights.

Do they win them with chun? Maybe.

Is Alan Orr's method unique enough to be considered its own system? Probably.

Does catching hands out of mid air work well in a fight? Well it is definitely ambitious.
 

drop bear

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Ok the elphant in the room with Alan Orr's wing chin is this guy.

Leo Negao.
Fight Teams - Alan Orr Wing Chun Academy


If any fighting system can work. Why the hell did alan Orr bring in an expert from a different system?

Notice I made that extra sarcastic so CB doesn't actually have to address this as a point.
 
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DaveB

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Maybe because its mixed martial arts??

Does boxing not work by your definition since every boxer in mma learns ground fighting as well?
 

drop bear

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Maybe because its mixed martial arts??

Does boxing not work by your definition since every boxer in mma learns ground fighting as well?

Yes if you look at one of my original arguments it says boxing does not teach you to wrestle. So all styles don't work.
 
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DaveB

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DB Can you quote the passage please?

I think this is a goalpost move on your part.

You've been quite happy to suggest everywhere else that boxing and muay thai work because they have a proven record of winning fights. It was because of such claims that i created this thread.

Now your uber combat sports don't work because of their obvious limitations along with every other style, placing them all squarely on the same level?

Even if I believed that to be your belief I would disagree with it because the challenge of martial arts has never been to know everything. Add wrestling and your still shy of a defence against bullets and hand grenades.

It's an unrealistic standard based on fight scenarios that most TMA were not designed for. Any such style v style match ups present a challenge of methodology where the chances of winning are based upon the variety of your training.
 

drop bear

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DB Can you quote the passage please?

I think this is a goalpost move on your part.

You've been quite happy to suggest everywhere else that boxing and muay thai work because they have a proven record of winning fights. It was because of such claims that i created this thread.

Now your uber combat sports don't work because of their obvious limitations along with every other style, placing them all squarely on the same level?

Even if I believed that to be your belief I would disagree with it because the challenge of martial arts has never been to know everything. Add wrestling and your still shy of a defence against bullets and hand grenades.

It's an unrealistic standard based on fight scenarios that most TMA were not designed for. Any such style v style match ups present a challenge of methodology where the chances of winning are based upon the variety of your training.

Shifting goalposts as opposed to any style works but not any style and no real definition of works.
 

drop bear

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So little Johnny gets caught for stealing and is told what he did was wrong.

His excuse is "But what about all the other kids who steal?"

Just because the individual and the training and the circumstance plays a role. Does not discount that the style plays a role as well.

There is a reason boxers tend to wrestle worse than wrestlers.

Here
 
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DaveB

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Shifting goalposts as opposed to any style works but not any style and no real definition of works.

Again, you need to read the first post, not just the eye catching title. All the terms and reasons for placing limits are fully explained.

If you want to dispute my reasoning be my first.

Also nothing I have written affects your consistency or lack thereof. Even if I'm the biggest hypocrite in the world, you dont get an out from being caught bsing to make your point because you've pointed a finger at me.

Justify the change or own the error but there's no need for playground excuses.
 

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If any fighting system can work. Why the hell did alan Orr bring in an expert from a different system?
I'm running low on time, so didn't watch the video, but I'll take a stab. Because cross-training fills gaps. An effective system is not a foolproof system (I wish one of those existed - let's work on that one). Bringing in an outside expert is not necessarily an indication of a problem in a system.

I assume you knew that already, but I gotta answer the question, since it was asked.
 

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Yes if you look at one of my original arguments it says boxing does not teach you to wrestle. So all styles don't work.
I think this is where we get back to needing some clarity on "works". Boxing does work. It also has a big gap. BJJ (as taught where they only train for BJJ competition) works, but has a big gap. The two complete each other (how romantical!) - almost...still no kicks, but that's survivable.
 
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DaveB

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I think this is where we get back to needing some clarity on "works". Boxing does work. It also has a big gap. BJJ (as taught where they only train for BJJ competition) works, but has a big gap. The two complete each other (how romantical!) - almost...still no kicks, but that's survivable.

Again, we never needed clarification to say wing chun doesn't work.

And again, I defined "works" in the first post of the thread. The latest clarification spurred some of Drop Bear's latest contributions.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Again, we never needed clarification to say wing chun doesn't work.

And again, I defined "works" in the first post of the thread. The latest clarification spurred some of Drop Bear's latest contributions.
You did define it...
A style "works" when the fighter is able to make valid credible steps towards his goal and has the potential to reach it within the confines of the style.
...but that hardly gives us a definitive cut-off. It's a good conceptual definition, but we can't really measure against anything in that, as it changes with every individual and every style. In fact, it almost makes it impossible for a style to "not work", unless someone chooses the wrong style for themselves. The definition doesn't actually allow for what the style's intention is.

Let me clarify. If I went into boxing to improve my cardio, it wouldn't matter whether I ever was able to fight or not. But fighting ability appears to be the intent of boxing, so if boxing couldn't deliver fighting ability, we should be able to say it "doesn't work". But we can't, because of my goal.

Likewise, if I go to a standard aerobics class to learn to fight, aerobics will fail that test no matter how it is trained, since it contains precisely no actual fighting techniques. But if I go in to improve my cardio, it "works". And we shouldn't assess aerobics' effectiveness at something it's not intended to cover, so the fact that it actually doesn't work for learning to fight is not an issue.
 

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