Judo question: What is the bottom line?

[BeeBrian]

New to this forum! Please give a warm welcome to me! lol

So here's my question.

Is Judo only useful against clothed opponents?

I was hanging out in a bodybuilding forum one time and there's this judo guy who said that he gets easily owned by his wrestling friend. He, however, tosses his wrestling friend like a ragdoll when they grapple during the winter, with hoodies on.

But what's the bottom line in your opinion?

 

[Drose427]

This is a red flag for me. The judo guys I've met were more than capable of keeping up with us wrestlers. Hip throws and trips work just fine without a gi. They just grabbed our bodies instead. I'm sure there were techs they couldnt do or chose not to try and adapt, but they were hardly "getting Owned"

 

[Dirty Dog]

Welcome to MartialTalk.

If your friend is wrestling naked, then this is the wrong forum for discussion of his activities...

I'll leave other discussion to judoka.

 

[BeeBrian]

This is a red flag for me. The judo guys I've met were more than capable of keeping up with us wrestlers. Hip throws and trips work just fine without a gi. They just grabbed our bodies instead. I'm sure there were techs they couldnt do or chose not to try and adapt, but they were hardly "getting Owned"

That sounds very reassuring considering how I love Judo better for its "prettiness".

But your judo friend, was he simply someone who decided to adopt a wrestler approach and happened to be good at it? Was he sticking to his judo postures and was giving you a good run with his judo-specific style? Or was he simply someone who was in such great physical shape that no matter what he did, he'd do good at it?

 

[BeeBrian]

Welcome to MartialTalk.

If your friend is wrestling naked, then this is the wrong forum for discussion of his activities...

I'll leave other discussion to judoka.

No no! lol. I just meant like loose clothing, like a gi or hoodie.

 

[Drose427]

That sounds very reassuring considering how I love Judo better for its "prettiness".

But your judo friend, was he simply someone who decided to adopt a wrestler approach and happened to be good at it? Was he sticking to his judo postures and was giving you a good run with his judo-specific style? Or was he simply someone who was in such great physical shape that no matter what he did, he'd do good at it?

Well, he's a grappler. HIs shape was impeccable anyways. His approach wasn't a wrestling stance, he was up far higher. He also chose to trip and try and hip toss at 138. Very, very few wrestles in this weight class would choose that approach in Wrestling, its far easier to just circle and shoot. The big 2 things he did are some of the only moves I know by name. But they were the Ashi Guruma, he basically swings that leg like its own kick. Idk if thats how it was taught to him, but you felt it. The other he called a Deashi Harai. But it wasnt exactly that. Instead of grabbing the Gi, he'd just grab a shoulder and the back of the head. Obviously he went down to the mat with you.

Even his first day before really learning everything, he was more than capable to keep up with things he hadn't really seen. They were reminiscent of our own Wrestling techs, but were still very different.

 

[drop bear]

The joys of anecdotes.

There is probably a point where both practitioners are at a level where that happens.

Although that does not necessarily mean you cant judo a person out of a gi

 

[Reeksta]

People's opinions on this one differ. Personally my experience was similar to the OP's friend: I did judo for a long time but when I switched to freestyle wrestling I had a hard time to begin with. Kept grabbing at sleeve and collar grips which weren't there. Some friends of mine who do BJJ reckon they have no problem switching between gi and no-gi though.
To be honest though I think the biggest problem us judoka have transitioning to collegiate or freestyle wrestling is getting shot in on. Leg grab attacks have been gradually removed from judo over the years (you could only do them if the opponent had a Russian grip on you by the time I stopped training in it, not sure you're even allowed to do that now) so obviously judokas don't train to do or counter them much. My upright stance and crappy sprawl got me taken down a lot initially.
Oh, and welcome to the forum @BeeBrian

 

[tshadowchaser]

welcome to the forum Bee Brain.
Not being used to the slipperiness of sweaty skin might throw a Judoka off the first few time but I would think he would be able to compensate once he got used to it. Not being used to being shot on would be a disadvantage to him also until he learned to back off or counter. If both where experienced with the others style it would be interesting to watch

 

[WaterGal]

You know, I wonder if the difference might also be with the wrestler friend. If he's used to wrestling in a wrestling outfit, a hoodie and jeans might be confining to him and put him at a disadvantage, while the judoka is used to wearing a bulkier/heavier outfit while training so it doesn't bug him.

 

[RTKDCMB]

But what's the bottom line in your opinion?

Whatever Stone Cold says it is so.

 

[Buka]

Welcome to the forum, bro.

I guess it depends on the person, his level of skill and his experience training with and without gi. No gi sweaty is a pain in the butt.

But I think most of us would rather have clothing to grab grip on, no? I sure would.

 

[Hanzou]

You need to modify your grips. If you're of high enough skill level, it shouldn't be a problem, unless you just never thought about it before.

I think more Judo schools should definitely incorporate nogi into their programs. While the chances of you fighting some shirtless punk on the beach isn't very high, most modern clothing isn't like the gi, so you need to learn how to work around loose fitting, or easy to rip clothing.

 

[RTKDCMB]

While the chances of you fighting some shirtless punk .

I wouldn't be so sure. A lot of people, when they want to fight you the first things they will do is take of their shirt.

 

[Reeksta]

I think more Judo schools should definitely incorporate nogi into their programs.

Makes sense but will never happen. The IJF's #1 priority will always be maintaining judo's position as an Olympic sport. To this end they're very keen that judo and wrestling remain recognisably different to casual spectators; this is the main reason for all the silly rule changes over the years. The gi is the single biggest indicator to an uneducated observer as to whether they're watching judo or wrestling so the IJF would always do everything in their power to discourage clubs from training without it

 

[LibbyW]

Naked Judo... hmmm .... where do I sign up

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Judo can definitely be used very effectively no-gi. Just watch Ronda Rousey.

That said, most judoka spend most of their time training to use the gi grips, which means they have to make some adjustments to be proficient no-gi.

In the case of judoka vs wrestler, it sounds like the judoka is having to make adjustments working without clothing grips and the wrestler is having to make adjustments working with them. If their skills are comparable, then that could be the deciding factor. Against an untrained grappler it probably wouldn't be so important.

 

[Cirdan]

Naked Judo... hmmm .... where do I sign up

I can offer a few private classes free of charge...

 

[LibbyW]

I can offer a few private classes free of charge...

Well the free classes are tempting, but I think the flight to Norway may outweigh the temptation
L

 

[Cirdan]

Well the free classes are tempting, but I think the flight to Norway may outweigh the temptation
L

Turning down free naked judo in viking Norway? You don`t know what you are missing Libby