Martial Artist Vs Warrior

bluemtn

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There's something that your comments here reminded me of, a long while back. A couple of years ago I was watching that awful XMA special on Discovery Channel, and at one point, Matt Mullins makes a comment about how martial artists, like other artists, express their creativity by the `details' that they put into their work. And I remember thinking, no, he's parsing that phrase wrong. A high-energy physicist isn't a physicist who is `high energy', but someone who does high-energy physics: [high-energy physics]+ist. And in the same way, a martial artist isn't (necessarily) an artist whose artistry is martial, but rather someone who does martial arts: [martial art(s)]+ ist. The `art' part of the phrase `martial arts' doesn't come from the notion of capital-A Art, as in fine artswhat Michaelangelo or Bach did. It's a more general notion which also shows up in phrases like `Teach the arts of peace', or `Young working class girls in Victorian England learned useful domestic arts' and so onbasically, sets of skills, specialized knowledge or abilities. In my reading, I've encountered animal husbandry, stonemasonry and, in JRR Tolkien's usage, the `art of smoking pipeweed', among many other skills or practices, as instances of this usage.

So `martial artist', at least in terms of where the term comes from, means nothing other than one who practices, at some level of competence, the specialized skills that constitute some degree of knowledge of certain kinds of fighting systems. This is just what several other peple on this thread have been saying. You don't have to be an artist to be an MAist, just a competent craftsperson reasonably adept in the specialized skills of your style. Anything more is... well, extra, and personal.


Very well put, and I completely agree with that one. A martial artist is one that is at least reasonably prficient in a given skill or in our case- discipline(s) we study.
 

terryl965

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There's something that your comments here reminded me of, a long while back. A couple of years ago I was watching that awful XMA special on Discovery Channel, and at one point, Matt Mullins makes a comment about how martial artists, like other artists, express their creativity by the `details' that they put into their work. And I remember thinking, no, he's parsing that phrase wrong. A high-energy physicist isn't a physicist who is `high energy', but someone who does high-energy physics: [high-energy physics]+ist. And in the same way, a martial artist isn't (necessarily) an artist whose artistry is martial, but rather someone who does martial arts: [martial art(s)]+ ist. The `art' part of the phrase `martial arts' doesn't come from the notion of capital-A Art, as in fine artswhat Michaelangelo or Bach did. It's a more general notion which also shows up in phrases like `Teach the arts of peace', or `Young working class girls in Victorian England learned useful domestic arts' and so onbasically, sets of skills, specialized knowledge or abilities. In my reading, I've encountered animal husbandry, stonemasonry and, in JRR Tolkien's usage, the `art of smoking pipeweed', among many other skills or practices, as instances of this usage.

So `martial artist', at least in terms of where the term comes from, means nothing other than one who practices, at some level of competence, the specialized skills that constitute some degree of knowledge of certain kinds of fighting systems. This is just what several other peple on this thread have been saying. You don't have to be an artist to be an MAist, just a competent craftsperson reasonably adept in the specialized skills of your style. Anything more is... well, extra, and personal.


that is well said
 

Brian R. VanCise

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There's something that your comments here reminded me of, a long while back. A couple of years ago I was watching that awful XMA special on Discovery Channel, and at one point, Matt Mullins makes a comment about how martial artists, like other artists, express their creativity by the `details' that they put into their work. And I remember thinking, no, he's parsing that phrase wrong. A high-energy physicist isn't a physicist who is `high energy', but someone who does high-energy physics: [high-energy physics]+ist. And in the same way, a martial artist isn't (necessarily) an artist whose artistry is martial, but rather someone who does martial arts: [martial art(s)]+ ist. The `art' part of the phrase `martial arts' doesn't come from the notion of capital-A Art, as in fine artswhat Michaelangelo or Bach did. It's a more general notion which also shows up in phrases like `Teach the arts of peace', or `Young working class girls in Victorian England learned useful domestic arts' and so onbasically, sets of skills, specialized knowledge or abilities. In my reading, I've encountered animal husbandry, stonemasonry and, in JRR Tolkien's usage, the `art of smoking pipeweed', among many other skills or practices, as instances of this usage.

So `martial artist', at least in terms of where the term comes from, means nothing other than one who practices, at some level of competence, the specialized skills that constitute some degree of knowledge of certain kinds of fighting systems. This is just what several other peple on this thread have been saying. You don't have to be an artist to be an MAist, just a competent craftsperson reasonably adept in the specialized skills of your style. Anything more is... well, extra, and personal.

Nicely put Exhile!
 
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Brad Dunne

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So `martial artist', at least in terms of where the term comes from, means nothing other than one who practices, at some level of competence, the specialized skills that constitute some degree of knowledge of certain kinds of fighting systems.

Thanks for your observations, a very concise explanation. :asian:

Everybody...........Exile gets extra green thing'es from all of us. :partyon:
 

kyo sa nim

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Excellent discussion.

I find much to agree and disagree with.

An excellent book on this very subject is "In Search of the Warrior Spirit" by Richard Strozzi-Heckler. Heckler is an Aikido-ka and a Phd in Psychology who was involved in a secret training program with the Green Berets in the mid eighties.

I certainly do not agree with everything he says, but he has some interesting insights. He was also instrumental in the creation of MCMAT, the Marine Corp Martial Art, which is currently taught throughout the Corp.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Excellent discussion.

I find much to agree and disagree with.

An excellent book on this very subject is "In Search of the Warrior Spirit" by Richard Strozzi-Heckler. Heckler is an Aikido-ka and a Phd in Psychology who was involved in a secret training program with the Green Berets in the mid eighties.

I certainly do not agree with everything he says, but he has some interesting insights. He was also instrumental in the creation of MCMAT, the Marine Corp Martial Art, which is currently taught throughout the Corp.

Yes that is an interesting book. Definately worth a read when you get the chance. I to do not agree with everything he says but it is an interesting read none the less.
 

Darth F.Takeda

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Excellent discussion.

I find much to agree and disagree with.

An excellent book on this very subject is "In Search of the Warrior Spirit" by Richard Strozzi-Heckler. Heckler is an Aikido-ka and a Phd in Psychology who was involved in a secret training program with the Green Berets in the mid eighties.

I certainly do not agree with everything he says, but he has some interesting insights. He was also instrumental in the creation of MCMAT, the Marine Corp Martial Art, which is currently taught throughout the Corp.

I know a former SF officer who says Heckler is full of it.
Concerning his work with SF, and much of his musings.
He was considerd for the MCMAP Program, but then the Commandant found out he had LtCol. George Bristol, a very talented martial artist,a student of Hunter Armstrong, among others, including my Sensei, David Lamond, and a Combatvet and true Warrior right there in the USMC. It was Bristol and Sgt Urso who founded MCMAP.
I have been lucky enough to hit the mats with George, I have known dangerous people in my life and he exudes that on the mat.
He's a gentleman off.
 
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