in general Tournaments

[tshadowchaser]

I was wondering how many of you participate in tournaments?
If you do what kind: karate kung fu, TKD, a mixture of the 3, BJJ, other?
How many a year do you go to
What are the things you dislike about the tournaments you attend.
Is their anyone out their that goes to "old time" karate tournaments that do not allow padding and allows head contact, throws ,etc.

 

[ks - learning to fly]

I participate in TKD tournaments - usually between 8-12 a year...Pretty much the only thing I dislike
about any tournament is when the host school does all the judging..while it's not always a problem -
it IS when a large percentage of the grand champion trophies go to competitors from the host school..

 

[clfsean]

I just competed in NC over the weekend at a CMA only tournament. I'll also hit the big one in Orlando in July & another smaller one in NC again in November.

I will generally go to about one a month locally that are open tournaments. It keeps the edge up even if the judges don't have a clue about what I'm doing.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We are very much not a sport oriented school. We do take students to tournaments on occassion, but not often. Maybe four in the last two years. All have been Open tournaments, held as fund raisers for local charities, with competition in forms, breaking and sparring.
I'm not a fan of schools doing their own judging. Too much bias even with the best of intentions. I'm also not a fan of rules with no sane rationale. For example, the only time I competed at any of these events, I did sword sparring. Despite completely adequate armor, they not only disallowed strikes to the head, but awarded penalty points.

 

[Grenadier]

We do take our students to several traditional tournaments each year. These tournaments follow the rules that are given by USA Karate (formerly USA-NKF), which are based on the World Karate Federation's rule set.

These tournaments do allow sweeps and throws (as long as the pivot point is no higher than the hip), and at the adult levels, do allow light contact to the head. In other divisions, sweeps and throws are still allowed, but hand contact to the head isn't allowed (although you are allowed to attack it), while touch contact via foot is allowed. Contact to the rib cage and the back are allowed, as long as it's not to the kidneys, or the spine.

Light fist pads, shin guards, and light foot pads are used.

They'll allow decent contact to the body, as it's expected that a Karate-ka who has been training, should be able to absorb a fairly vigorous blow to the body and still keep going, especially with the padding.


This is probably the best compromise out there, in terms of keeping it vigorous, while still protecting the competitors. I realize that there are competitions that allow full power strikes to the head, but I'd have to question, what are your competitors going to gain from that? Is it really worth that high probability of a concussion, missing teeth, etc., just to brag about being allowed to hammer each other in the heads? Furthermore, what kind of benefit would you get by trying to "condition" your face? Is it worth the nerve / brain damage?



I'm not saying that the USA Karate method is perfect, as every system will have its flaws, and the operators and judges are only human. Still, when you consider that there are tournaments that will penalize you if you strike someone in the back (which encourages competitors to shy away, exposing their backs), or not allow punches to the head at all (which encourages the competitors to spar with their guard down), and so forth, you'd be hard pressed to find a better alternative that can provide as good of combination.

 

[MJS]

I was wondering how many of you participate in tournaments?
If you do what kind: karate kung fu, TKD, a mixture of the 3, BJJ, other?
How many a year do you go to
What are the things you dislike about the tournaments you attend.
Is their anyone out their that goes to "old time" karate tournaments that do not allow padding and allows head contact, throws ,etc.

After quite a long time of not doing tournaments, I did my first Kyokushin tournament 2yrs ago. I fought twice, and lost both matches, but that's ok. The experience I gained, both from fighting, and from reviewing the fight which was taped, with my teacher, and some of the other Black Belts, I learned from my mistakes. There are numerous tournaments through out the year, which we all have the option to attend. My dojo hosts one every year in state. I plan on fighting in that one.

The upper belts have the option of fighting full contact, no padding. The only head contact is with kicks. Everything else is considered semi contact, ie: padding, which consists of headgear, shin pads, and those cloth hand pads. Despite it being semi contact, the contact is still very hard. In that tournament that I fought in, I took a kick to the ribs. Obviously due to the adrenaline rush, it didn't bother me at the time, but afterwards, it hurt to touch, it hurt to breath, and I swear I thought I broke a rib. Fortunately it was just a bad bruise. But, that's the name of the game. That art is no joke, and the fighting is hard.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I've been focused on the combative aspects of BJJ rather than the sport competition side for most of the last decade. Last month I jumped in to a tournament and had a good time, so I think I'm going to try competing a few times per year. If nothing else, some of the students I'm teaching will want to compete and it would be good if I had the experience to help them prepare for tournaments.

 

[geezer]

I confess that I'm no fan of tournaments. Now I admit that I'm more than a little out of touch. I haven't been to one for like a zillion years. They always seemed like a long boring ordeal resulting in a bunch of kids going home with cheesy plastic trophies taller than they are.

As you probably can tell from the arts I practice (WC and FMA) I'm not a fan "one shot" point fighting or of forms competition. In my style, sparring, whether light or heavy has to involve head contact and continuous flow. And, forms are for personal training only.

Now, please don't take this to mean that I'm against all MA competitions. Although I know little to nothing of the arts, I totally respect Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing and MMA bouts. Real stuff. Too tough for me as I get on in years, but I'd enjoy being a spectator. Other than that, I support some local MA "gatherings" that may include friendly inter-school sparring with varying degrees of contact and no trophies. However, I don't think these kind of bouts are what the OP had in mind.

 

[tshadowchaser]

MJS...........please let me know when your school holds its tournament. I have a student that needs the experience of a tournament that allows more then he has seen before.

My students may go to 3 or 4 a year depending on weather and if they have that day off form work. (we missed one in FEB. because of the weather and a 4 hour drive)
Most of the ones we go to are small tournaments where everyone knows each other. Judges in the rings are not allowed to be from the same school unless that's the only way to fill the positions. All have been padded tournaments with no head contact ( higher ranks may get away with light contact because its expected their opponent know how to block). Only one of them will allow sweeps of any kind.
What do I not like: Breaking compositions

 

[MJS]

MJS...........please let me know when your school holds its tournament. I have a student that needs the experience of a tournament that allows more then he has seen before.

10-11-14, the time and location are to be determined, but I'll let you know when I find out more info.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I'll put that date on my calender and tell my students to put it on theirs. hopefully we can all get there

 

[Mark Lynn]

I teach at a Rec. center to mainly kids, my adult program is Modern Arnis and the kids program is American Karate/TKD

We normally go to one tournament a year and that is the invitational tournament held by the parent American Karate TKD organization that our school belongs to. I like it because the students are competing against other students doing the same/similar level forms, no craziness is permitted. Last year they allowed our Modern Arnis students to compete in kata (anyo), sparring and in weapons kata division along with the other karate/TKD students. I'm not a big tournament fan and I don't push it on my students but this year we'll be attending a midsize open tournament, and a smaller benefit tournament in May for a black belt instructor diagnosed with stage four cancer, along with the invitational tournament mentioned earlier.

What don't I like about tournaments?
1) I'm not a big fan of plastic kamas, glow chucks, toothpick bo, etc. etc. and competitors who don't know how to hold let alone yield a weapon, but sure can baton twirl.
2) I'm not a big fan of people doing made up kata that resemble gymnastic routines in the same ring as people doing traditional (recognized) kata.
3) I'm not a big fan of instructors modifying kata by adding in a kick, a jump, back flip or whatever all so the student has a slightly greater degree of difficulty than the student who poured his /her heart into learning the kata the correct or unmodified way.
4) I'm not a big fan of $40.00 entrance fees nor $10.00 per extra event fees, nor $10.00 spectator fees. Especially when it is on a gym floor and everyone is just standing around; no chairs, no bleachers, no seating.
5) I don't like kata that is so unrealistic it is offensive in nature (like watching a kama competitor squat in front of the head judge as if he was taking a dump and tossing his plastic kama from behind his back up between his legs like he just shot it out his, well you get the picture).
6) I don't like orange belts doing brown belt kata in orange belt division all so once again they have a higher degree of difficulty over the kids doing their orange belt kata.
7) I don't like the disrespect that Black Belts (any competitor for that matter) show by trying to coach from the sidelines during sparring matches, calling the referees blind, or questioning their calls etc. etc. (At the last large open tournament we went to a few years back a fight actually broke out amongst the crowd due to the instructors on the side lines during BB sparring.)

Most of the above I witnessed at the last large "open" tournament I took my students to although I've seen similar abuses over the years; parents of my students were shocked and uncomfortable with what they saw, plus it didn't go over well shelling out $50.00 + per family to watch the show.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Yep seen most of that and I agree with you. Way to much gymnastics these days and unreal forms being made up.
You forgot to mention kids and adults walking through the area where people are preforming or sparing. I have seen way to many kids almost get hit with weapons because they had NO idea what the hell was going on around them

 

[WaterGal]

2) I'm not a big fan of people doing made up kata that resemble gymnastic routines in the same ring as people doing traditional (recognized) kata.

I have mixed feelings about creative forms that are, uh, very creative in that way. I'm glad to see people engaging with what they've learned in an original way and using their athletic and creative abilities to the fullest, but at the same time they don't always have a lot to do with martial arts and can be pretty cheesy. I remember seeing one that was at least 50% breakdancing at the last tournament I was at. Either way, they definitely shouldn't be competing against people doing traditional forms - I'd be cranky if I saw that. Creative and traditional forms should be seperate events.

4) I'm not a big fan of $40.00 entrance fees nor $10.00 per extra event fees, nor $10.00 spectator fees. Especially when it is on a gym floor and everyone is just standing around; no chairs, no bleachers, no seating.

Not a big fan of spectator fees either, but there are costs associated with hosting a tournament, so I don't have a problem with there being entrance fees for competitors. I've been looking into hosting a tournament recently, and IIRC the insurance alone was $150-300 per 50 participants. Add in the cost of renting out a rec center or school gym for a day, and if you're bringing in mats, computerized scoring systems, trophies, etc.... it must add up. (We're planning on doing it at our school and having manual scoring, so the costs shouldn't be too high, but it's not gonna be free.)

7) I don't like the disrespect that Black Belts (any competitor for that matter) show by trying to coach from the sidelines during sparring matches, calling the referees blind, or questioning their calls etc. etc. (At the last large open tournament we went to a few years back a fight actually broke out amongst the crowd due to the instructors on the side lines during BB sparring.)

Yikes. That's terrible. I mean, tournaments I've been to allow coaches, but you don't question the refs or yell during the match (beyond maybe "you can do it!", "light on your feet!" kinda stuff). You have to be professional. And fighting in the crowd, wow. I wouldn't go back to that.

 

[clfsean]

I teach at a Rec. center to mainly kids, my adult program is Modern Arnis and the kids program is American Karate/TKD

I used to teach at a rec center until I found my current teacher. Great places to teach.

We normally go to one tournament a year and that is the invitational tournament held by the parent American Karate TKD organization that our school belongs to. I like it because the students are competing against other students doing the same/similar level forms, no craziness is permitted. Last year they allowed our Modern Arnis students to compete in kata (anyo), sparring and in weapons kata division along with the other karate/TKD students. I'm not a big tournament fan and I don't push it on my students but this year we'll be attending a midsize open tournament, and a smaller benefit tournament in May for a black belt instructor diagnosed with stage four cancer, along with the invitational tournament mentioned earlier.

We normally only do CMA only tournaments. There's only a couple of those a year in our area or within easy reach. I also compete with my teacher's ok in the smaller local "open" tournaments where what your list hits on heavily. I don't particularly like them for most of the reasons you listed because I go in knowing, I'm not placing anywhere close to 1st unless I'm the only competitor in my selected division. But some of them have started listing explicitly "kung fu welcome" or "Kung Fu Division" or "Soft Style" or the like, so I'm going. I'm trying to make sure that if people are "opening the door" so to speak, they see the real thing. Not ego but just wanting to make sure real CMA is recognized over something Bubba threw together from watching too many movies or tried to learn from DVD with his "X" background.

What don't I like about tournaments?

Rave on & I'm adding my thoughts too

1) I'm not a big fan of plastic kamas, glow chucks, toothpick bo, etc. etc. and competitors who don't know how to hold let alone yield a weapon, but sure can baton twirl.

Yup ... I'd rather watch a football game or parade for baton twirling, not a gold lame' "hakama" if it could be called that with somebody throwing any kind of implement resembling a weapon like a baton.

2) I'm not a big fan of people doing made up kata that resemble gymnastic routines in the same ring as people doing traditional (recognized) kata.

Yup... they should be separated by division. In CMA tournies, there are rules governing certain techniques that move the form from one division to another. Even some of the traditional styles that have a lot of gymnastics techniques from deih saht or deih dang, those forms are moved to an open division. If somebody does a form that exceeds the given number of allowables, they are stopped & a conference is held to determine a general DQ for not paying attention or if an honest mistake, being moved.

3) I'm not a big fan of instructors modifying kata by adding in a kick, a jump, back flip or whatever all so the student has a slightly greater degree of difficulty than the student who poured his /her heart into learning the kata the correct or unmodified way.

Actually this one I'm on the fence over it & it truly depends on what happens. I never do one of our forms exactly as it was taught in our lineage. Even if it's a form we share with other schools of the same MA (Choy Lay Fut in the case), we always make a small mod. It's probably 95% authentic, but there's that 5% that will tell us by looking if it was scarfed up by somebody with a camcorder. I do this without fail at the local open tournies. I've seen too many examples of "appropriation" over the years & mangling of technique due to it. That said though, I never make additions to a set that "increase" the level of difficulty. They're difficult enough as they are. I normally leave a small sequence out or alter techniques in a sequence so that it still flows as it is supposed to, but not as taught. Quality control, as it were, not upping difficulty for competition sake.

4) I'm not a big fan of $40.00 entrance fees nor $10.00 per extra event fees, nor $10.00 spectator fees. Especially when it is on a gym floor and everyone is just standing around; no chairs, no bleachers, no seating.

Yup ... that's just being greedy.

5) I don't like kata that is so unrealistic it is offensive in nature (like watching a kama competitor squat in front of the head judge as if he was taking a dump and tossing his plastic kama from behind his back up between his legs like he just shot it out his, well you get the picture).

I'd like to see forms done with properly weight weapons. In CMA unless competing in the strict Modern Wushu division, weapons are required to support their own weight from the point of the blade. Disrepective motions should be dealt with by scoring & then calling the coach for conference & warnings. I find it hard to use the word teacher for some of the things I see out there.

6) I don't like orange belts doing brown belt kata in orange belt division all so once again they have a higher degree of difficulty over the kids doing their orange belt kata.

Nope... the kid should be wearing a brown belt.

7) I don't like the disrespect that Black Belts (any competitor for that matter) show by trying to coach from the sidelines during sparring matches, calling the referees blind, or questioning their calls etc. etc. (At the last large open tournament we went to a few years back a fight actually broke out amongst the crowd due to the instructors on the side lines during BB sparring.)

Yup ... Sanda it's not allowed. That's handled in the corner between rounds. We don't really do the continuous sparring so I can't comment on that so much.

Most of the above I witnessed at the last large "open" tournament I took my students to although I've seen similar abuses over the years; parents of my students were shocked and uncomfortable with what they saw, plus it didn't go over well shelling out $50.00 + per family to watch the show.

Rave on ...

 

[Mark Lynn]

I have mixed feelings about creative forms that are, uh, very creative in that way. I'm glad to see people engaging with what they've learned in an original way and using their athletic and creative abilities to the fullest, but at the same time they don't always have a lot to do with martial arts and can be pretty cheesy. I remember seeing one that was at least 50% breakdancing at the last tournament I was at. Either way, they definitely shouldn't be competing against people doing traditional forms - I'd be cranky if I saw that. Creative and traditional forms should be seperate events.

Many times creative and Traditional forms are seperate, but sometimes what sets them apart is only if their is music involved. If it's a music form then it's "Specialty Division" but because it is an "open" tournament it could be anything without music in say empty hand kata division. Because when anything goes then therein lies the issue for me, how can a person really be judged correctly?

At the tournament I mentioned before one of my students was doing the ITF Brown Belt kata Hwa Rang, she slipped on the mat as she was stepping forward to punch. She misjudged her footing and she got a real low score as she should have, or well at least lower than any body who made it through their kata without a mistake. She and her dad were fine with that. However another competitor comes in with his made up gymnastic routine and misjudges where he started his kata and ends up going clearly outside of the ring, stops and marches back to the center of the ring assumes his stance and continues his made up kata. He placed I think 3rd? WHAAAAAT?

As we were watching my student's division, I heard a student approach his instructor behind me and tell him he wasn't going to compete and his instructor tell him to "Don't worry about it, make something up, do your back flip and no one will know the difference" or something like that. I was livid hearing that.

My student lost her footing and everyone knew because of her kata, but if somebody makes up a kata then who knows if they forget a move or not, and to have an instructor tell his student to do just that in order to try and win a piece of plastic and stone urrgh

Not a big fan of spectator fees either, but there are costs associated with hosting a tournament, so I don't have a problem with there being entrance fees for competitors. I've been looking into hosting a tournament recently, and IIRC the insurance alone was $150-300 per 50 participants. Add in the cost of renting out a rec center or school gym for a day, and if you're bringing in mats, computerized scoring systems, trophies, etc.... it must add up. (We're planning on doing it at our school and having manual scoring, so the costs shouldn't be too high, but it's not gonna be free.)

I'm in agreement on covering costs, I'm not against making a profit either, but their comes a point when it starts to cross over the line. However than can be just me too, since I don't place that much value on the tournaments in the first place. I've been to big tournaments where around each ring their were seats so spectators could sit and watch. I've been in other places where is it a gym floor and they are charging for spectators but not providing any seating. If you're going to charge for spectators they need to get something in return, like a seat, rather than just holding a family hostage and price gouging them so they can watch little Johnny fight one match, maybe do a kata and then go home.

Say a family has a little Yellow or beginning belt child and it's their first tournament; so the family loads up in the car, drives an hour, parks (might even have to pay for parking) goes to the tournament and pays $40.00 for the entrance fee, then $10.00 a head to watch and the kid gets up and does his kata, 1/2 and hour later does his kata and doesn't win. Maybe he gets a participation medal or a sticker and the family gets to shell out $60.00 for about what an hour. Oh and they had to stand around for that hour as well.

Likewise if that child goes and gets scared because of all of the chaos, all of the loud music, all of the yelling, and disrespect being shown by people outside of the ring etc. etc. what message or impression of the martial arts do the parents leave it? Hey maybe enrolling little Johnny back into soccer is a good idea?

Yikes. That's terrible. I mean, tournaments I've been to allow coaches, but you don't question the refs or yell during the match (beyond maybe "you can do it!", "light on your feet!" kinda stuff). You have to be professional. And fighting in the crowd, wow. I wouldn't go back to that.

I didn't witness the fight, we left before that however I was told later by the head of our association who was there as well that a fight broke out in the BB sparring ring. But I was hearing the same types of things at the under BB sparring rings, the coaching and the yelling at the refs, which is why we cruised when everyone had sparred who wanted to, we took off, we left the circus.

As I prepare our students for these two upcoming tournaments (or any tournament we go to for that matter), they and the parents get mini instructions (mini lectures) on proper behavior, both for the competitors and for the parents as well. It's not the trophy that counts it is effort getting ready, it is the courage that it takes to step out of your comfort zone and compete, it is being a good sport and being honorable and controlling one self even when the call is against you etc. etc. that is what is important not the piece of plastic and stone that gathers dust in a few months on the shelf.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I used to teach at a rec center until I found my current teacher. Great places to teach.

Yeah I'm very fortunate to teach there, they have been very supportive of my programs and now I teach there 3-4 hours a night, 4 nights a week and Saturday morning and afternoon.

We normally only do CMA only tournaments. There's only a couple of those a year in our area or within easy reach. I also compete with my teacher's ok in the smaller local "open" tournaments where what your list hits on heavily. I don't particularly like them for most of the reasons you listed because I go in knowing, I'm not placing anywhere close to 1st unless I'm the only competitor in my selected division. But some of them have started listing explicitly "kung fu welcome" or "Kung Fu Division" or "Soft Style" or the like, so I'm going. I'm trying to make sure that if people are "opening the door" so to speak, they see the real thing. Not ego but just wanting to make sure real CMA is recognized over something Bubba threw together from watching too many movies or tried to learn from DVD with his "X" background.

I understand enjoying your art and wanting to show the real thing so to speak. Which is exactly why I approached our parent American karate/TKD organization about allowing my Modern Arnis students to compete. I wanted to not only give my arnis students a chance to compete but also to help demonstrate the other art I teach to all of the karate and TKD people in our association. Some of our students cross train between the two systems so I had brown belts in TKD doing the 1st Anyo (kata) in Modern Arnis in brown belt divison. My daughter and another student both did Anyo Isa (form 1) in a higher divison than their belt color because the Anyo was harder than the equivalent belt ranks kata in the karate TKD programs. FYI in Modern Arnis we don't have as many forms nor belt colors as in the TKD so I had them compete up so to speak, so no one could say I was just trying to stack the deck.

Yup ... I'd rather watch a football game or parade for baton twirling, not a gold lame' "hakama" if it could be called that with somebody throwing any kind of implement resembling a weapon like a baton.

Gold Lame 'hakama' LOL actually I saw something I felt was just as bad at this previous "open" tournament a few years before the last one I mentioned, I saw an instructor in his hakama perform his kata with his aluminum training katana twirling it in between his fingers as he was walking around the kata ring. He made a few cuts, a few what looked to be stances and then he baton twirled with his katana. I think he placed as well.

Actually this one I'm on the fence over it & it truly depends on what happens. I never do one of our forms exactly as it was taught in our lineage. Even if it's a form we share with other schools of the same MA (Choy Lay Fut in the case), we always make a small mod. It's probably 95% authentic, but there's that 5% that will tell us by looking if it was scarfed up by somebody with a camcorder. I do this without fail at the local open tournies. I've seen too many examples of "appropriation" over the years & mangling of technique due to it. That said though, I never make additions to a set that "increase" the level of difficulty. They're difficult enough as they are. I normally leave a small sequence out or alter techniques in a sequence so that it still flows as it is supposed to, but not as taught. Quality control, as it were, not upping difficulty for competition sake.

I understand here what you mean and I can see your point of view. Adding in a jump spinning turn kick to the end of an orange belt kata is not doing this for quality control but some instructor who believes it is more important that his/her student win over other students so they can put that trophy on that shelf or in that store window proudly proclaiming they are a tournament school. I think they have sold their souls for a piece of plastic and marble and a sub standard marketing plan.

I'd like to see forms done with properly weight weapons. In CMA unless competing in the strict Modern Wushu division, weapons are required to support their own weight from the point of the blade. Disrepective motions should be dealt with by scoring & then calling the coach for conference & warnings. I find it hard to use the word teacher for some of the things I see out there.

Not sure what you mean here but I go along with it. I'd throw in, that you should be able to strike another weapon or accidentally drop it on the floor and not break it. I'd like to see some of these bo kata done with real bo instead of featherweight toothpick graphite bo. Or how about testing if the weapon can actually take a strike with against a real weapon such as a bo. Well that might make the tournaments a whole lot less flashy without all of the fancy plastic kama, oh and maybe 7 yr olds won't be doing glow chucks routines. That would be great.

The judge calls you name "Here!!!!" you stand up and run up, kneel and present your bo to the judge and he says "HMMMM". "BOLO" (enter the Dragon reference) bring your bo. This big korean guy comes up, snarls and takes a high guard stance, giving you the mean eye, and the judge says "We have to test your weapon to see if it's worthy, Bolo here is going to strike at your head and you need to block it. If you do, you pass to do your kata, if you don't we have a stretcher out back"

For those dis respective moves the same thing could apply, in the middle of the kata the BB squats and goes to throw the kama up between his legs, the head judge yells "BREAK" everything stops. A hush falls over the crowd, the judge yells "BOLO" out comes the big korean. The judge says "Now that move must have some combative meaning I'm sure, because no one would ever think to disrespect the martial arts like that in this tournament. So I'm giving you the chance to teach us all that secret move. BOLO here is going to strike at your head and I want you to squat and toss that kama from behind your back up in between you legs catch it and use it before BOLO's bo cracks you head. Teach us young Black Belt" Begin!!!

You know I might start going back to tournaments then.

Nope... the kid should be wearing a brown belt.

No here I disagree, the kid shouldn't be a brown belt the Orange belt shouldn't be being shown a brown belt kata to perform in Orange belt division. Not only that but the instructor should be ashamed for teaching his students the wrong life lessons. Instead of learning to master a form and his body (as much as a beginner could be expected to) to compete against his/her peers, to work hard, to be better than everyone else and be judged on a equal playing field. Instead we have an instructor teach a student with mediocre to poor form a complex kata all so he can be technically more difficult than the others all to get the nod to win a piece of plastic and wood. This will be the same type of instructors hold back their students to only compete in the beginning or intermediate ranks all so they can win a trophy instead of moving up in ranks as they should.

 

[clfsean]

Yeah ... we're same paging this stuff. Maybe a few smallish differences, same pages.

I do like the "BOLO!" weapon check... that'd be great!!!

 

[WaterGal]

My student lost her footing and everyone knew because of her kata, but if somebody makes up a kata then who knows if they forget a move or not, and to have an instructor tell his student to do just that in order to try and win a piece of plastic and stone urrgh

Yeah that's why it doesn't make sense to put traditional and creative together. Traditional forms need to graded on accuracy, while creative forms are about, well, creativity. The scoring should be totally different.

Say a family has a little Yellow or beginning belt child and it's their first tournament; so the family loads up in the car, drives an hour, parks (might even have to pay for parking) goes to the tournament and pays $40.00 for the entrance fee, then $10.00 a head to watch and the kid gets up and does his kata, 1/2 and hour later does his kata and doesn't win. Maybe he gets a participation medal or a sticker and the family gets to shell out $60.00 for about what an hour. Oh and they had to stand around for that hour as well.

Yeah, that's why I never really got into tournaments myself. I'm not a born athlete, and I started TKD at 24, so I was never going to be a national-level competitor. So spending $70 (WTF-style tournaments are really expensive) to wait around for 2 hours, do 2-3 sparring rounds and get a plastic trohpy that I mostly earned by showing up.... just was honestly not that exciting to me. (Edit: especially when I was starting TKD and $70 meant working for 6 hours.)

But the students that love competing love it, and I like supporting them and seeing them psyched up about taekwondo. (We're planning on hosting a hapkido tournament, since there aren't any around here, and some of the teenagers really want to compete in that.)

As I prepare our students for these two upcoming tournaments (or any tournament we go to for that matter), they and the parents get mini instructions (mini lectures) on proper behavior, both for the competitors and for the parents as well. It's not the trophy that counts it is effort getting ready, it is the courage that it takes to step out of your comfort zone and compete, it is being a good sport and being honorable and controlling one self even when the call is against you etc. etc. that is what is important not the piece of plastic and stone that gathers dust in a few months on the shelf.

Agreed. It's not about the trophy, it's about putting out your best effort, and about competing with good sportsmanship.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Watergal and others who are planning on Tournaments

Not wanting to beat a semi dead horse here but..... in regards to Spectator fees. I know it is an easy way to spread the pain around to recoup costs and such associated with the Tournaments. However it can also seem like nickle and diming the competitors family as well. After promoting an upcoming tournament to my students, once parents started looking into it they found out there is a $10.00 spectator fee on top of the $40.00 entrance fee. Yesterday I had another parent come up and ask if this fee was for real, and they look at me like it's my fault or something, this makes the 3rd or fourth parent of a possible competitor who is now questioning whether or not to have their one son/daughter compete because well, to take the family (husband/wife) other siblings possibly to see little Johnny compete the price is getting up there.

It might be a better strategy to have a lower spectator fee so the whole family shows up to see little Johnny compete because not only does it keep the parents interested, but it also maybe brings in little Johnny's siblings as well and who knows schools that participate might see a bump in enrollment. I mean if I got another student because one of my students competed and he brought his friend or a sibling (or mom or dad for that matter) and that spectator got interested then I would more inclined to promote or support that tournament next year. Same thing if I ended up keeping a student after they competed and they got more interested and trained more etc. etc.

That's like free marketing in a sense. However if my parents feel like they are getting nickle and dimed to death, or the judging was unfair, etc. etc. then next year as a school we won't be going.

Some suggestions
1) One spectator free with every contestant
2) Half off spectator fee with every contestant
3) Lower the spectator fee for everyone
4) Family discount say $15.00 for the family or something

Just thoughts