How does the future look

[tshadowchaser]

On the dark side of seeing tomorrow, I see more and more schools with names that have been inventedted and mixed ( chinese, filipino, japanese all togeather) along with the self appointed high ranks.
I see a future where it will be hard to tell who realy studied and has knowledge from those that open up wschools with little knowledge in any one system other than a fews months here and there.

I see the need for more selfdefence classes vs actual hard long tme study of an art

I see, as has been said befor, every 5 -10 years a new fad that is the only thing anyone should study because it is the end all of al the martial arts ( at least for that day, LOL)


I see prices of training going so high that the average or below middle classs can no long study

I see more legistration being made against those who practice the martial arts because of idiots and thugs who commit crimes with little or no real knowledge of the arts but they saw it in a movie or bougth a some martial looking equipment somewhere

 

[exile]

Kata's will NO longer be USE because they found it is not a great training tool! (see seals training, Krav Magv,Kick boxing,MMA's etc)

Katas are a great training tool if you use them to train with. The British Combat Association is the MA federation which is most devoted to application of TMAs to practical street defense, and among their most active members are people like Iain Abernethy and Stuart Anslow, who advocate reality-based training built entirely on the combat principles encoded in katas. Who is the `they' you allude to who `found it is not a great training tool'?

There are so many threads around on the way in which kata encode realistic fighting strategies, and how to parse kata for that purpose, that it seems bizarre that this point can still come up on MT. Check out... say, just this and this thread, for starters.

The basic, fundamental, simple point, still_learning, is this: katas are not a training method in themselves. They are a choreographic manual of MA principles expressed as movement sequences which are adaptable as distinct tactics to a wide variety of up-against-the-wall street defense situations; a training method, in contrast, is a way of (i) extracting the combat applications of a particular set of movements—of subsequences of the kata, in other words; and (ii) developing conditioned fighting reflexes by specific training protocols allowing practitioners to apply the technical resources revealed in (i) to live, unscripted, violent combat. Kata embody a skill set; training methods are what you use in order to develop automatic responses applying that skill set. The content of a branch of mathematics is a different kind of thing from the teaching methods used to give students the ability to use that branch of mathematics. There is French, and then there is how you go about teaching French; there are many, many approaches to language teaching methods, some much more effective than others, but it's the same language you are trying to teach in all cases.

Learning how to decode kata and compile them into their separate combat scenarios corresponded to a level of knowledge reserved in traditional karate for extremely advanced, gifted and trustworthy students; kasai no genri is the Japanese expression for the general method of decoding kata into sets of effective combat sequences. On their own, as members of the BCA have demonstrated, kata contain some of the most devestating CQ techniques ever devised. Geoff Thompson, a sixth dan Shotokan karateka and probably the most experienced and authoritative professional streetfighter in the UK (bouncer and club security in Coventry, one of the nastier bar/club scenes in Britain, for more than a decade) writes that

To those of us who have really studied—and I do mean really studied—the art of karate, its potency (though often hidden at a glance) has always been... obvious. When I first studied arts like western boxing, wrestling, judo, Thai, etc., and when I first started to teach those arts within my (Shotokan) karate curriculum, I was more than a little surprised... when my peers accused me of `abandoning karate' and teaching techniques peripheral to the syllabus. Surprised because the techniques were actually in the karate katas (but not taught in the syllabus)...'​

(Foreword to Iain Abernethy's Karate's Grappling Methods, UK: Neth Publishing, 2000, p. i.) So don't blame the kata for the shortcomings of the dojos and dojangs who won't teach the multitude of effective tecniques that are there, latent just below the surface of the kata, or won't do so in a realistic `alive' way. There is no defense system on the face of the earth that will be effective if it's not taught in as street-realistic a way as possible. And yes, that includes SEALs training, Krav Maga... any of it.

 

[grydth]

I actually think we are living in the Tai Chi fad now. It is running parallel to the reality-based competition fad. Unfortunately the Tai Chi fad is driven by the new age community and I can only see that growing in the future. Real taiji may really suffer from this and the strange emphasis coming from the Chinese government with regard to taiji in modern Wushu.

I believe we can divide the potentially negative outside forces into three clear types: governments, New Agers and fashionistas.

I wish now is as bad as it will get here with Tai Chi as a fad..... but there's an awful lot of miles between Canberra and central New York. Fads and movements may well be different in our two countries, in both type and timing.

The New Age movement struck Tai Chi in the USA years ago (not to mention the neutered and demartialized abomination known as Tai Chi Chi). I started a thread on New Age some time ago, and was initially shocked by the volume and vehemence of the negative reaction.

To me, though, the long term attempt by the New Ager's to co opt the art is separate and distinct from the media driven mass market fads, the "what's hot, what's not" type of fads that drive the fashionable sheeple to and fro. These latter individuals are shallow - and very temporary - intruders who will be gone as soon as the style gurus tell the herd to move along. They are but a passing, though great, annoyance.

 

[grydth]

On the dark side of seeing tomorrow, I see more and more schools with names that have been inventedted and mixed ( chinese, filipino, japanese all togeather) along with the self appointed high ranks.
I see a future where it will be hard to tell who realy studied and has knowledge from those that open up wschools with little knowledge in any one system other than a fews months here and there.

I see the need for more selfdefence classes vs actual hard long tme study of an art

I see, as has been said befor, every 5 -10 years a new fad that is the only thing anyone should study because it is the end all of al the martial arts ( at least for that day, LOL)


I see prices of training going so high that the average or below middle classs can no long study

I see more legistration being made against those who practice the martial arts because of idiots and thugs who commit crimes with little or no real knowledge of the arts but they saw it in a movie or bougth a some martial looking equipment somewhere

Speaking of 'reinvented and pushed together' for a vision of a monstrous future - I am lately seeing these classes offered around here that purport to be mixtures of pilates, yoga, Tai Chi and various other ingredients.

Now, who is creating these Frankenstein monsters? Elders in established syatems with decades of experience in martial arts - - - or thirty-something's with a smattering of training (at best) who are hoping to cash in as 'fitness guru's'?

What benefits will anyone get from this martial pot roast? To me they look like scams offering little benefit and potential for actual harm.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Katas are a great training tool if you use them to train with. The British Combat Association is the MA federation which is most devoted to application of TMAs to practical street defense, and among their most active members are people like Iain Abernethy and Stuart Anslow, who advocate reality-based training built entirely on the combat principles encoded in katas. Who is the `they' you allude to who `found it is not a great training tool'?

I think that the current intense investigation of the essential nature of kata will actually lead to a redevelopment of interest. It will run concurrently with MMA-style pragmatism, but it will continue and grow stronger.

 

[still learning]

HELLO, The question was ask about the future of martial arts? and I really believe Kata's purpose will change or be just for traditional training.

In a real fight? who fights like KATA"S...? .....Watch mix martial artist? Do they train in KATA"S ? Boxing? is Kata better than getting into the ring and box!

Muay thai? ....do they do alot of Kata's? (like the traditional Heian kata's)?

It is easy to believe what has being taught to you....( I have a Black belt in Shotokan/Goju Karate...and I had to learn Heian Katas........from two different schools while growing up. Today I do Kempo and we have kata's to learn, only because our Professor wants us to learn them (just a few)..but is NOT the main part of our training.

IF Kata's was very effective? ....All the military armies in the world will be having their soldiers doing Kata every day.....Kata is a preset forms...real fights do not have rules or forms....anything goes!

These are my thoughts on this about the future of KATA's .....LOOK at other sports...would Kata's be the best way to train? ....tennis, golf,bowling,football,rugby,basketball,westling,boxing, etc? ....REAL practice is the best way to train....not imaginary forms that is preset!

Time will prove this belief of Kata's effectiveness and purpose! Only the future will know? The best way to learn how to fight for real? ...is to fight for real! anything less is not the real thing? ...ask any soldier who being to war? ....training like real is NOT the same as real?

Many of us practice gun defence....in a safe place with partners that we trust.......Easy to take away the gun and destory our attacker.....
(when a person points a real gun and threatens you in the streets? ....it will be different for sure ?...your reactions...? and thinking will be different?

....Kata's a lost art? ...in the future? maybe ...maybe not? ....let's see what the future brings..............Just my thoughts and feelings on this...Aloha

PS: When I learn defensive driving? ....NO Kata....yet I learned!

 

[Cirdan]

IF Kata's was very effective? ....All the military armies in the world will be having their soldiers doing Kata every day.....

They do.

 

[terryl965]

Still Learning let me ask you this question if Kata's Poomsae or forms are worthless, why do we teach them? The answer is simple if you really understand all the application in them, there is more self defense movement in a Kata, poomsae or form then you probaly understand.

I'm not trying to start a fight but usually when someone says they are useless what they really mean is they do not understand all the application and then once I teach them it they have a whole different lunderstanding of them. Maybe you just need to be tought all the application to fully understand.

Then on the other hand maybe you do know them but do not see the value they bring.

 

[MJS]

HELLO, The question was ask about the future of martial arts? and I really believe Kata's purpose will change or be just for traditional training.

In a real fight? who fights like KATA"S...? .....Watch mix martial artist? Do they train in KATA"S ? Boxing? is Kata better than getting into the ring and box!

Muay thai? ....do they do alot of Kata's? (like the traditional Heian kata's)?

It is easy to believe what has being taught to you....( I have a Black belt in Shotokan/Goju Karate...and I had to learn Heian Katas........from two different schools while growing up. Today I do Kempo and we have kata's to learn, only because our Professor wants us to learn them (just a few)..but is NOT the main part of our training.

IF Kata's was very effective? ....All the military armies in the world will be having their soldiers doing Kata every day.....Kata is a preset forms...real fights do not have rules or forms....anything goes!

These are my thoughts on this about the future of KATA's .....LOOK at other sports...would Kata's be the best way to train? ....tennis, golf,bowling,football,rugby,basketball,westling,boxing, etc? ....REAL practice is the best way to train....not imaginary forms that is preset!

Time will prove this belief of Kata's effectiveness and purpose! Only the future will know? The best way to learn how to fight for real? ...is to fight for real! anything less is not the real thing? ...ask any soldier who being to war? ....training like real is NOT the same as real?

Many of us practice gun defence....in a safe place with partners that we trust.......Easy to take away the gun and destory our attacker.....
(when a person points a real gun and threatens you in the streets? ....it will be different for sure ?...your reactions...? and thinking will be different?

....Kata's a lost art? ...in the future? maybe ...maybe not? ....let's see what the future brings..............Just my thoughts and feelings on this...Aloha

PS: When I learn defensive driving? ....NO Kata....yet I learned!

You are making an apples to oranges debate here. Seems like you're also guilty of falling into that same category as people who watch youtube and base an arts effectiveness off that, as well as feel that if it doesn't 'work in the ring' then its useless.

I think the future will hold the same things that people are doing today. They will gear their art towards their goals. Kata is no good because the military isn't doing it? Umm...ok. Actually, if you think about it, kata is nothing more than a compilation of techniques put together in a series of preset moves. And boxing does have kata....its called:

jab, cross, hook
jab, jab, uppercut
hook low, hook high

The list can go on and on. Their 'kata' is their combos. They are preset patterns of punches. And they draw what they need according to whats presented to them at the time. Just like a kata, if you really understand it, you can draw out certain moves that'll aid you.

I find it interesting how people can dismiss things because this person or that art or whatever doesnt do them. Just because one person can't make something work, does not mean the next guy can't either. There are techniques in the Kenpo system, that I personally am not fond of. But because I'm not fond of them, doesn't mean I still don't teach them. Perhaps someone else will find that tech. to be their bread and butter move.

Mike

 

[exile]

HELLO, The question was ask about the future of martial arts? and I really believe Kata's purpose will change or be just for traditional training.

In a real fight? who fights like KATA"S...? .....Watch mix martial artist? Do they train in KATA"S ? Boxing? is Kata better than getting into the ring and box!

Ask a professional boxer, or a high-ranking amateur, if they learned to box effectively by just `getting into the ring and box[ing]'.

Look... Combat Hapkido does not have katas. And it is, as Gm. Pelligrini has explained repeatedly, strictly a practical fighting system. But if you look at many of the TKD hyungs, based in most cases very literally on the Shotokan katas, you see in the kata movements themselves many of the same combat patterns: deflect/trap/strike; pin/throw... in subsequences of standard kata.

Funny you should bring up the Pinan/Heian kata: I have three books and a long detailed DVD sitting on my desk in front of me now, each of which goes through the Pinans movement by movement and shows exactly how these are applicable to standard street-attack movements. The analyses by Iain Abernethy on his DVD are I think particularly effective. I hate to have to say it, but it sounds to me as though your views of kata are based on your having missed the past ten years or so of detailed research by experts on practical combat use of TMAs, guys like Geoff Thompson, Peter Consterdine, Peyton Quinn and others, who have been involved in hundreds of violent encounters in the course of their careers and who have a very good idea of what works and doesn't. You apparently weren't reading with sufficient care what Thompson said in the passage I quoted from him in my prior post, or you'd have noticed that you already have and answer to your question: he fights like the kata. Did you miss the part where he points out that the effective techniques that have emerged in `western boxing, wrestling, judo, Thai boxing etc.' are built into the kata themselves already??

If you genuinely are `still learning', then I think you'd want to acquaint yourself with the huge, deep recent literature, based on first-hand hard experimental work, that has developed since the end of the 1990s on the combat methods encoded in kata. And I think you'd try to base your view of kata on something other than the now obsolete literal-minded assumption that the kata are to be taken literally: that a `block' is really a block, that a retracted fist is really a chambering move, that a crane stance is really a way of standing there (as vs. a knee kick to an assailant's forcibly lowered head/upper body, as a result of the previous kata moves). Try to take in some new information on the subject, before jumping to conclusions which ignore some of the best thinking that's ever been done on the technical side of the MAs. Take the idea of `still learning' seriously, and give some attention to, e.g., the following: Iain Abernethy's Karate's Grappling Methods, Bunkai Jutsu: the Practical Application of Karate Kata, and his free e-books on the combat system inherent in the Pinan/Heian set, available here (note the further link at the very top of the page)—as well as his detailed DVD on the same topic; Lawrence Kane & Kris Wilder's The Way of Kata—they're talking fighting applications of Okinawan Goju Ryu kata, which should be of interest to you; Bill Burgar's Five Years, One Kata, about the wealth of combat scenario he was able to extract from Gojushiho after studying only that one kata, exclusively, for five years; and maybe one of the other ind-depth study of the fighting applications of the Pinan/Heians... say, Gennosuke Higaki's Hidden Karate: the True Bunkai for the Heian Katas and Naihanchi. And that's just for starters. If you truly want to be `still learning', then you have to pay attention to the new knowledge that the current generation of karateka and KMAists have discovered about the true meaning and intentions behind the form of the kata—why they are that particular sequence of moves, rather than something different.

And you also should look at some of the work that's been done on how the system encoded in the kata should be practiced for real-time use. They are not the same thing. Kata contain, e.g., a demonstration of how an arm pin followed by an elbow strike to the face can be `cashed out' as a finishing neck twist, bringing the attacker to the ground hard (the danger is that he will never get up again); but to learn how to actually get your own body to implement that series of forcing moves, so that the attacker, as noncompliant as he is, has no choice about what happens next, you have to move with precise balance, timing and accuracy, not `remembering' what to do but knowing what to do. That is something independent of the combat scenario you're training; it's a matter of internalizing the movements so that you can do them in real time under the chaotic conditions of a real fight—which is what the last chapter in Abernethy's Bunkai Jutsu, or his free e-book on Appled Karate (also available at his website), or Peyton Quinn's Real Fighting: Adrenaline Stress Conditioning through Scenario-Based Training, maybe the gold-standard work on this subject.

Or you can ignore all this work. It won't matter to progressive TMAists who see in it the real future of the MAs, and who will work hard to develop the analytic skills and combat abilities that the sources I've cited inspire them to pursue. In his classic short monograph The Pavement Arena, Geoff Thompson points out,

...for the karateka wishing to pursue knowledge of self-defense, kata are a treasure trove of hidden techniques that can be adapted directly to a street situation... it's a matter of perspective— if you want to see them as unrealistic and impractical you will. If however you are perceptive enough to see, you will find that they offer enormous benefits to the street-oriented.​

A word to the wise, eh? And if you choose to disregard it, well, it won't hurt anyone else... the point is, the future of the MAs as effective fighting systems hardly entails throwing away the stored, encrypted knowledge provided by the past simply because we're unable, through lack of cleverness or deliberate blindness, to unlock the secrets that are waiting there, as Thompson says, to be discovered, does it? Again, I'd suggest you look over the MT threads I gave you the links to in my previous posts; if you do, you'll notice that the kind of claims you've made about kata have been made before, and have been refuted in detail. But again, if you choose not to, it won't hurt anyone but you.

 

[CoryKS]

I think MA will explode into a full-blown mainstream activity. There are three factors that I believe will contribute to this:

1) An increase in high-profile rape/abduction cases in the national media inc. the internet;

2) The growing use of MA-themed workout programs being adopted by health clubs. Many facilities incorporate the punching/kicking combos popularized by Tae-bo or capoeira-based programs;

3) Media exposure through programs like UFC, Ultimate Fighter, Tapout, and the like; and

4) Availability of information about the various styles through the internet;

Ok, four things. It comes down to exposure. Used to be that martial arts was something that was hidden behind a tinted window or a garish sign in a low-rent neighborhood, but more people than ever are being exposed to it. They see that it's fun in the workout classes. They see how it works on television. And they see that there is a need for it through the news.

 

[MarkBarlow]

Do you feel these fads are of any benefit to the MA.... or simply something inevitable to be endured? I am dreading Tai Chi becoming a new fad.

Don't want to divert the thread, but I'd beware of anyone offering "Combat Tai Chi" to new students. .

Sorry, I forget that not everyone has my sense of humor...I've never heard of Combat Tai Chi and if anyone starts teaching it they owe me a percentage for thinking up the name.

I think fads bring in lots of new students and a few will remain. In that aspect it's positive. On the other hand, it brings in students with unrealistic expectations. Some poor kid has watched a few shows claiming that an art can be "mastered" in a week and than used effectively against a trained student of the same art. After a week in the dojo, they're upset that they aren't the equal of someone who's been training for 5 or 6 years and they become convinced it's all a scam. They leave looking for the next "ultimate" martial art.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Kata's this is just my opinion on it use! ...I see things differently than most here on this topic!

Time or in the Future..10,20,50, years from now? ...we will see it's progress in the martial arts?

As more scientific studies are done....to prove its worth or not?

Just my opinion of the use of Kata's, it may have a place in the Martial art world....BUT NO where else....is done like this for training! (preset forms)..like a dance number by the books!

There will always be two side, or more to every beliefs?) these are my beliefs and minds only....on Kata's!

Aloha

PS: Boxing jab, jab, cross etc...is NOT A KATA..and is NOT call KATA or practice like a KATA? ...not too sure how to explain the difference here? HELP!

 

[Blindside]

PS: Boxing jab, jab, cross etc...is NOT A KATA..and is NOT call KATA or practice like a KATA? ...not too sure how to explain the difference here? HELP!

They do kata in kabuki and taiko, it is a demonstrated sequences of moves to show correct posture, position, balance, etc.

So a jab, cross, hook is a kata, just a really short one. A coach can watch and say "watch your dip in your left shoulder, you are telegraphing the hook," "snap that jab back faster, and don't drop it early." Sound something like a critique of a karate kata? It does to me.

Lamont

 

[exile]

Hello, Kata's this is just my opinion on it use! ...I see things differently than most here on this topic!

Time or in the Future..10,20,50, years from now? ...we will see it's progress in the martial arts?

As more scientific studies are done....to prove its worth or not?

Just my opinion of the use of Kata's, it may have a place in the Martial art world....BUT NO where else....is done like this for training! (preset forms)..like a dance number by the books!

There will always be two side, or more to every beliefs?)these are my beliefs and minds only....on Kata's!

There may be two or more sides to every idea, sure. I may believe the earth goes 'round the sun, and you may believe that sun goes 'round the earth. I may believe that illnesses are caused by microorganisms and you may believe they're caused by evil spirits. And so on... my point is that there is a huge body of evidence which contradicts your opinions and beliefs. Now, you may (and apparently would prefer to) disregard the evidence, and as Geoff Thompson pointed out, if you refuse to look at the actual combat content of katas, you'll go on seeing them the way you do. My post, really, wasn't so much aimed at convincing you—I'm not, I have to say, all that concerned about your personal beliefs—as making clear to readers who have open minds on the subject and could go either way on the issue why they'd be much closer to the real picture if they rejected your position and adopted the one I advocated.

Reiterating that you believe what you believe is unncecessary. I'm quite happy for you to go on believing what you believe. My objective is just to explain to people why what you believe is unjustified and contradicted by current research and experimental practices, and how they'd benefit by investigating the issue of kata from a much different point of view.

 

[MJS]

PS: Boxing jab, jab, cross etc...is NOT A KATA..and is NOT call KATA or practice like a KATA? ...not too sure how to explain the difference here? HELP!

I'll agree with part of this. It is not called a kata per se, however, it is a preset pattern of movements, just like a Karate, TKD, or Kenpo kata. Someone who trains in a TMA, ie: TKD, Kenpo, etc., go thru kata practice. Obviously, when you use the kata for self defense, you break it down, and apply various parts, depending on what attack you're presented with.

A boxer has a number of combos. They are preset. Depending on what openings are present at the time, will dictate what combo he throws. He also does shadowboxing. Like a MA kata, he is picturing an imaginary opponent in front of him, while he goes thru the motions.

In essence, the boxing combos can be lumped into the same category as a MA kata, although its not specifically called that.

 

[MJS]

Just my opinion of the use of Kata's, it may have a place in the Martial art world....BUT NO where else....is done like this for training! (preset forms)..like a dance number by the books!

Again, a kata is simply a series of techniques put together. You seem to be under this misconception that when breaking down a kata, you need to do it by the book, if you wanted to use it for self defense. That is simply not the case.

I think you should take a look at this thread, specifically the first post.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53026

View those youtube clips. You'll see a few moves of a kata, and then those same moves applied with an opponent. Looks like self defense to me.

Mike

 

[still learning]

Hello, You may have to look at the defination of Kata's VS, practicing movements like "jab, jab,duck, cross" is NOT call a Kata! Yes they can be preset training movements

BUT IS NOT CALL a Kata? ....Muay Thai practice many preset movements in the rings BUT IS NOT CALLED A Kata?

One day you will see the difference and know the difference....practicing is NOT A KATA? .....

PLease tell me your meaning and difference between the two thoughts of practicing technques and KATA training? I know they are almost the same....there is a difference "hence" call two different things......

Many times when we are taughts certain things? ...we believe it to be true? ..Kata....will the future...show it truth to our training? or is there a better way?

Again...this is my feelings.....on this Aloha

Marching bands practicing formations....this is NOT CALL a KATAS?

 

[exile]

Hello, You may have to look at the defination of Kata's VS, practicing movements like "jab, jab,duck, cross" is NOT call a Kata! Yes they can be preset training movements

BUT IS NOT CALL a Kata? ....Muay Thai practice many preset movements in the rings BUT IS NOT CALLED A Kata?

Why would it be called a kata, s_L?? The word `kata' is Japanese. Why on earth would American and European boxers use the Japanese word for `formal pattern', when English speaking boxers, for example, have their own expression—`combo drill'—in their own language for something similar? Are you seriously suggesting that a Western combat system should use Japanese terminology? Whatever for???

One day you will see the difference and know the difference....practicing is NOT A KATA? .....

I don't find this completely coherent... but to the extent that I can make sense of it, no, practicing is not a kata. A MA kata is a formal pattern of movements which embodies certain combat techniques. A musical score is a formal pattern of note sequences which embodies certain tonal relationships. And so on. Practicing, on the other hand, is a series of actions which constitute a performance of the combat techniques, correctly understood through intelligent, realistic bunkai, or the translation of musical notation into the manipulation of strings, or keys of a piano, or... to produce actual sounds that realize the patterns of notes and chords embodied in the score. And so on. So what follows from any of this?

PLease tell me your meaning and difference between the two thoughts of practicing technques and KATA training? I know they are almost the same....there is a difference "hence" call two different things......

Many times when we are taughts certain things? ...we believe it to be true? ..Kata....will the future...show it truth to our training? or is there a better way?

Again...this is my feelings.....on this Aloha

Marching bands practicing formations....this is NOT CALL a KATAS?

I'm sorry, s_l, but this verges on being incomprehensible. I can't figure out if you're trying to tell us something or ask us something. I'll tell you this, though: the work kata in Japanese means, basically, `formal pattern'. There are kata for flower arrangement and for the tea ceremony, among other arts. That's all that kata means: formal patterns. We MAists are familiar with the formal patterns for certain Japanse MAs, no? But the meaning of the word is more general: an abstract formal pattern, that is realized in practice.

As far as what the rest of what you're trying to say is... I have to admit: I'm pretty much baffled. I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to follow your prose, much of the time.

 

[newGuy12]

I can't take it any more. I have to agree with 'still_learning'. Surely a kata is more than just a combination of motions.

Isn't that why "finger set" is called "finger set" and not "finger kata"?

American Kenpo has forms and sets. They are not the same. Surely what I type here is true. I feel as though I am going crazy. Surely I am a sane man. Tell me. When the Kenpo student does "Thrusting Wings", it is a combination, not a form. I don't mean to raise a stink, but surely, people, surely this must be true, or else why would different words be used?


By the way, I would love to see the techniques in the hyungs brought to light. I'm sure that there are MANY fascinating applications, that I don't know about (they are not taught!).

You people know that I am new. I just can't keep from jumping in. I saw a video just today. It was Dan Insanto! He was talking about Chaun FA. He domonstrated a beginning of a Chinese form. It was very flowery, as one might expect.

Then... he showed the motion on another human being.

OH! --> He just did Obscure Claw! I "know" (at least know to some superficial level) that technique, but I did not see it until Mr. Insanto brought it to light!

I was amazed!

Yes, I bet there are LOADS of little gems in those forms. Just loads!