How long does it take to learn your system of martial arts?

[Makalakumu]

At jujutsu the other night, my sensei said that the entire system was designed to be learned in ten years. All of the techniques within it are meant to be passed on within the span of a decade. He also said that after this was done, you could begin to really practice the art.

All of this brings up an interesting question. How long does it take to learn your system? I can see the wisdom in being able to pass the whole thing on in a shorter amount of time. It's just more efficient. In the same vein, with some styles of karate, you don't learn the most advanced kata until you have trained for over 25 years. For something you practice for a lifetime, I can see the wisdom in the long view.

What do you think? How does your system view this?

 

[terryl965]

Well in TKD most people believe very little time but actually it is a life long journey into the depth of oneself. We must train always to precieve what would be consider a Master of the Art.

 

[JDenver]

If you practice an internal art, like bagua, I reckon you're looking at a lifetime. You might 'learn' the form, but will always be 'learning' the art.

 

[suicide]

:yoda:25 to life

 

[Flying Crane]

Some of my kungfu uncles have been training with sigung for over 40 years, and they still haven't learned the entire system. But I think sigung learned it in 10 years or perhaps less.

Of course a lot depends on the temperament of the teacher, his willingness to share information, and his perception of how hard the students train and what their abilities are. What might take one person 5 years to learn might take 20 for another. I'm of the opinion that you can use the time as a general guidline but much depends on the circumstances.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Depends on the individual. Like anything else...you get out of it what you put into it.

Of course..."learn"... could be subject to interpretation. Being familiar with an entire syllabus and really studying all that is actually entailed within each technique, form, or drill could take a life-time to even grasp partially.

 

[still learning]

Hello, In the old days...before the 60's anyway...training was almost daily and for long hours..

Today many schools is 2-3 days a week and maybe 1-2 hours long.

Hence to really learn? and how long? will depend on hours per week and at home works (continue training at home)...

Many systems one can earn a black belt in 2-5 years....is this enough time to really learn?

What is the "meaning of learning" ....can you measure that?

So far earn 96lbs of learning...just a few more pounds to go..?
or....about 10 minutes more? ..getting close to learnng..

Guessing the answer is NO ending...one can always learn more...

Aloha, ...learning is endless....so is drinking water and eating banana's

 

[Ken Morgan]

To memorize the dance steps? A few years.

To own it, to make it your own? It’s the journey not the destination that’s important.

 

[MJS]

At jujutsu the other night, my sensei said that the entire system was designed to be learned in ten years. All of the techniques within it are meant to be passed on within the span of a decade. He also said that after this was done, you could begin to really practice the art.

All of this brings up an interesting question. How long does it take to learn your system? I can see the wisdom in being able to pass the whole thing on in a shorter amount of time. It's just more efficient. In the same vein, with some styles of karate, you don't learn the most advanced kata until you have trained for over 25 years. For something you practice for a lifetime, I can see the wisdom in the long view.

What do you think? How does your system view this?

Well, when you get your BB, which usually takes about 4-6 yrs. I suppose that one could say that they have learned the system. However, the real learning, IMHO, starts at black, and can take the rest of your life. I've been training in Kenpo for a bit over 20yrs and Im still learning with every lesson that I take. Arnis....I know all of the material that is part of what we teach. However, my teachers still show me new things and I find new things on my own.

 

[Omar B]

"Learn" is a tricky concept. How long does it take to learn guitar? Are we talking Sid Vicious, Joey Ramone playing or Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen level. There are levels of mastery, some people are happy to get a general understanding, some become maestros.

It's the same with MA, I've been in the same style since I was 5 and I know for a fact I'm nowhere near where I want to be. Thinking of even attempting the same thing with another style just scares the crap out of me.

 

[jks9199]

At jujutsu the other night, my sensei said that the entire system was designed to be learned in ten years. All of the techniques within it are meant to be passed on within the span of a decade. He also said that after this was done, you could begin to really practice the art.

All of this brings up an interesting question. How long does it take to learn your system? I can see the wisdom in being able to pass the whole thing on in a shorter amount of time. It's just more efficient. In the same vein, with some styles of karate, you don't learn the most advanced kata until you have trained for over 25 years. For something you practice for a lifetime, I can see the wisdom in the long view.

What do you think? How does your system view this?

Interesting question...

I can teach the basic elements (stances, body angles, steps, punches, blocks, kicks, trips, falls/rolls, throws) to someone in probably a year or two, at a basic level. With dedicated, concentrated practice, you can become skilled in applying those pieces in that same time. We have a minimum of 5 years of training for black belt, and, while I know a few cases that counted total martial arts training to reach five, most take at least 5 in-system. Most of the time after the second year or so is spent adding layers and depth and learning underlying principles. At black belt, you begin learning the advanced systems, which are really nothing but collections of strategies and tactics named in emulation of animals. Each of them can take another several years to really learn and integrate.

But... My teacher learned enough to be fighting and dominating in tournaments in the late 50s and 60s in a matter of months of dedicated, intense training, with little focus outside of fighting application.

That leads to another question: What do you mean by "learn your system?" Is it know every kata and element and perform them all at a master level? Or is it show solid competence in the core elements?

 

[Bruno@MT]

A lifetime will not be enough. Seriously. Tanemura sensei has lived and breathed martial arts since he was a kid, receiving mastership in many traditional systems, out of which he made the Genbukan Ninpo and Ju-jutsu federations.

Currently the highest grades in either system are 8th dan, despite the fact that these systems have existed since 1984. Once you hit 3d dan, you can also 'specialize' in the traditional systems to receive mastership. This will also take a long time, and is required to promote beyond 5 dan or so.

The only way you could hope to master the entire breadth of the systems available within Genbukan is to dedicate your life to it from early on, train every day and move to Japan for a long, long time like James Wright Shihan. And even he is nowhere near complete mastery of all systems.

 

[Jaspthecat]

I practice Muay Thai and Krav Maga

I guess Muay Thai could be learned in a few months but would take a lifetime to master (a bit like Golf!)

Krav Maga you could probably learn crash course style but it would take a while for it to be effective (by effective I mean actually work in a SD situation). If you learnt a few techniques, work on those, then learn some more then becoming effective is a lot quicker. This is one of the fundamentals of Krav ie being suitably prepared to protect yourself in as short a time as possible.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I could show someone the basics in a matter of hours, the forms they might get all of in a year if they memorized each one fast enough, the various self defense maybe six months but to “learn” the art would take them well more than 20 years of practice. It might even take a lifetime to understand all of the little things than can and cannot be done under different circumstances.
To ‘Learn” the system is to understand it and to understand it one must devote many years to it’s practice.
One may learn moves and movement but that dose not mean that they understand the why’s and where fore’s of what they are doing.
Heck I have been doing it for 40 years and I am still discovering new things. Then again maybe I am a slow learner

 

[Xue Sheng]

How long does it take?

My sifu has studied Yang taijiquan for over 50 years and is still training it. I have been at it for 18 years and still feel I have a lot left to learn.

If I listen to my sigung I believe he said it takes about 6 years of good training to understand the long form. That means training it everyday for at least an hour a day and you will understand it in about 6 years. If you train it only 30 minutes a day that time changes to 12 years and train it only a couple of times a week and that time changes to 20 or more years.

But, IMO, it all comes down to how dedicated the student is and how good the sifu is. It takes a lifetime to learn Yang taiji and based on my limited experience with Chen it takes about the same amount of time and since people like Chen Xiaowang say they are still learning I don’t doubt that it takes a lifetime.

If you are talking Xingyiquan they say (whoever they are) it takes about 2 years to be able to use Xingyi as it was meant to be used for SD. But it takes a lifetime to learn. And since there were people like Wang Ji Wu that trained Xingyiquan their entire life (Wang Ji Wu lived to 100) I tend to agree with that as well.

IMO, if someone ever tells you they are a master and have learned the entire system of any ICMA or ECMA they are likely not someone you want to train with

 

[pete]

"Learn" is a tricky concept. How long does it take to learn guitar? Are we talking Sid Vicious, Joey Ramone playing or Steve Vai, Yngwie Malmsteen level. There are levels of mastery, some people are happy to get a general understanding, some become maestros.

Duane Allman: Master at 21, checked out at 24. Could he have learned more with more time? Sure. Still, he mastered his art.

Everyone is different, Everything depends. No easy answer, and certainly no answer that would apply universally.

pete

 

[KELLYG]

It's kinda like my 90 year old granny and her bible. She read it every day and said she found so meting new or a new understanding every time she read it.

I also think that it applies to Martial Arts. You can get the general idea in a relatively short period of time, but over time through your own personal growth, the way you perceive things changes. A person that is in their teens and 20's world's view and physical abilities are different than some one in their 30's and 40's or someone in their 50's and 60's etc.

So in my opinion learning the system can take a life time.

 

[sfs982000]

I don't feel that anyone truly learns everything there is to know regarding martial arts. It's constantly evolving and changing and there is always more to learn. You can learn the basic movements in a relatively short period of time, but to truly master them takes a lifetime.

 

[ATC]

I don't feel that anyone truly learns everything there is to know regarding martial arts. It's constantly evolving and changing and there is always more to learn. You can learn the basic movements in a relatively short period of time, but to truly master them takes a lifetime.

I second this. No system is learned then passed in its entirety. Every systems is modified as it is passed. Also it is not passed as a whole but rather in pieces as time goes by. As each piece is passed it is interperted different by each it is passed to so at that point it is already being modified as well. And becasue it is always being modified an ever changing it can never be truly mastered. You can become really good at the basics but to master any styles system is not possible.

 

[dancingalone]

How about a less abstract answer? Assuming the student has sufficient talent, drive, and time, I think 10 years approximately in my system. 10 years of regular practice to learn, know, and be able to regurgitate on demand

1) All stances, strikes, blocks, and manuevers
2) All falls, locks, pins, throws, and sweeps
3) All bare hand kata along with all bunkai taught 'officially'
4) All kobudo forms along with official applications
5) All physical conditioning and breathing methods
6) The good stuff I won't mention since they would likely derail the thread