Fighting Future

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
58
Location
middletown, CT USA
MartialIntent said:
Not rattan sticks though!! Seriously, I hadn't heard that before.

Apparently, when asked what kind of weapons World War III would be fought with, Einstein responded, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

How would you interpret that? I know he wasn't in favor of nuclear deterrents so was he suggesting we'd all have wiped ourselves out in WWIII leaving nothing but the basics? If so, martial artists and hand to hand fighters would rule! With the advances in weapons, in the future, will it take an apocalypse for martial arts combat to again become a truly practical system as it was centuries ago?


I would interpret that as meaning we are going to cause such damage to our world that we will be reduced to such means to survive. The potential certainly seems to be there for this to occur. Greater technology is becoming more easily available to some pretty scary people.
It may or may not end up being rattan sticks, but once you really know sticks, a stick is a stick is a stick! :0)
 

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
58
Location
middletown, CT USA
stickarts said:
MartialIntent said:
Not rattan sticks though!! Seriously, I hadn't heard that before.

Apparently, when asked what kind of weapons World War III would be fought with, Einstein responded, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

How would you interpret that? I know he wasn't in favor of nuclear deterrents so was he suggesting we'd all have wiped ourselves out in WWIII leaving nothing but the basics? If so, martial artists and hand to hand fighters would rule! With the advances in weapons, in the future, will it take an apocalypse for martial arts combat to again become a truly practical system as it was centuries ago?


I would interpret that as meaning we are going to cause such damage to our world that we will be reduced to such means to survive. The potential certainly seems to be there for this to occur. Greater technology is becoming more easily available to some pretty scary people.
It may or may not end up being rattan sticks, but once you really know sticks, a stick is a stick is a stick! :0)

I would interpret that as meaning we are going to cause such damage to our world that we will be reduced to such means to survive. The potential certainly seems to be there for this to occur. Greater technology is becoming more easily available to some pretty scary people.
It may or may not end up being rattan sticks, but once you really know sticks, a stick is a stick is a stick! :0)
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
Hand Sword said:
Holy Cyborg (Van Damme's original) Batman! Reduced back to primitive means? At least fights would be fair. No guns to swing the odds in one's favor. Only true skill would rule!
Exactly, but will martial arts combat only regain a *practical* standing in societies of the future post-apocalypse? All other things being equal - if we continue to arm ourselves at the current rate -assumption- then won't that preclude mano-a-mano fighting from having any actual worth decades into the future?

On a different note regarding the anti-combat sentiments [as expressed in society at large and even here on MT by tone], we're apparently already well on our way to the dogma that tells us fighting is barbaric and should at all costs be avoided when really, couldn't it be argued that we as a species are natural born fighters: as a vehicle to settle arguments; as an expression of our anger and as a methodology used to confront our fears?

So having said all that, what will be the purpose of martial arts combat in the future?

Respects!
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
stickarts said:
stickarts said:
I would interpret that as meaning we are going to cause such damage to our world that we will be reduced to such means to survive. The potential certainly seems to be there for this to occur. Greater technology is becoming more easily available to some pretty scary people.
It may or may not end up being rattan sticks, but once you really know sticks, a stick is a stick is a stick! :0)
Hypothetically, in some far off era would you ever feel that despite a stick combatant having phenomenal fighting skill, when confronted by heavy personal armaments, he or she will be simply powerless and impotent to act against such attackers? Isn't there an element of brainwashing or naivety in all our TMAs that tell us we can handle whatever we're given?

As I say, if we ever did find ourselves in a place where sticks, swords, fists, elbows, knees and feet were the pick of the weapons available, then of course martial artists would rule being the only folk with real combat skill. But on the other hand, if we go towards increasing technological advancement, where would you see the natural home of our hard won fighting skills being in that case? Would we be simply demonstrators of an antique and mere decorative art with no practical application? Would martial arts combat be grouped along with calligraphy or bonsai?

Respects!
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
Hand Sword said:
Because eventually all the bullets will run out, after the war that started the destruction, and none could be made anymore with everything destroyed, I guess. Then, our skills will be very much needed!
Indeed - I wonder in that hypothetical situation where the authority could potentially fall into the hands of martial artists [imagine], how many of us would step up and take LEO and military type roles to avert anarchy? Or would we still be in our dojos while Rome burned? <Devil's Advocate>

Would any of us believe they could fill Judge Dredd's boots in that situation? What do you think?

Respects!
 

MJS

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
30,187
Reaction score
427
Location
Cromwell,CT
MartialIntent said:
In 100 years will combat [attack and defense] still comprise the core and the driving engine of the martial arts? With so many folk apparently taking up martial arts *not* merely for SD and *not* to fight, and yet more folk apparently armed and prepared to utilize those weapons, what will become of the combat aspect within martial arts in the future?

My thoughts fwiw...
Personally I wonder will we -through our disdain for combat and through our progressive social attitudes that deride combat- have winnowed away the fighting art and the martial aspects until martial arts of the future concern themselves more with dynamics, fitness, assertiveness and meditation than with actual fighting and defense.

-Or-
Is it likely that striving to be more representative of the trend towards increasingly armed society will mean mano-a-mano fighting slowly gets replaced in martial arts schools with gun and blade kata and Tazer defense woohoo! :)

-Or-
Is there a possibility that martial arts combat will fail to endure impending redundancy in the face of ever more advanced personal weapons and ever increasing use of those weapons? If in a hundred years, everyone's impeccably armed, does it render combat impossible? Compare to a nuclear situation where if both parties engage, both parties are inevitably annihilated - if in the future, you and I both have a powerful personal arsenal under our coat, strapped around our shoulders, surely we appreciate that any combat will see the end of us both?

-Or-
Is it too far-fetched to think that with the military researching automaton soldiers, remote aircraft and the like, our future bouts will be fought in some unknown virtual arena? Hey, at least nobody get's hurt ;)

Where do you see combat in the martial arts in the future? Very interested in any original views.

Respects!

Great thread!! Personally, I dont see the arts dying off any time soon. People will always find a need to train, so IMO, its not going to matter if its a combat oriented art or something more along the spiritual lines, people will still train.

As far as there being something 'new' being sold to the public...well, pick up any MA magazine, and we'll see a ton of 'new' things out there. However, if we stop and think about it, how much of it is really new? IMO, its not so much as it being new, its how its being presented.

Mike
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
I have had time to think about this thread. I have come to some conclusions:

  • In the next hundred years WWIII will occur. This war will include weapons of ungodly strength. These weapons will be more devastating then any nuclear weapon could ever be. In the after math, none of the original goals will be completed. All of the nations that were in any way involved or near the nations that were involved will be completely destroyed. And left will be nothing but radioactive wastelands were the decaying bodies of the dead fester, and new creatures evolve. Creatures born of the toxins they were there parents were exposed to gamma rays in.
  • As a result of this nuclear holocaust, the world will return to the cavemen days. No nations. No money. No laws. Only anarchy. Then, new cultures, new nations, new laws, and a new form of order will arise. This order will be the only thing to save the still infant humans, that as a result of there own self-hatred, nearly destroyed themselves.
  • This new order will make all attempts to prevent anything like this from ever happening again. They will tell the tales of the world of old, of the Great War, and the holocaust that lead to the nearly complete annihilation of humanity. But the basic nature of humanity will over come these attempts. The story of earth will become little more then a vague memory, and considered only a myth. Something to get little children to eat their vegetables, and do what there parents says.
  • And we will go back to great being in great nations, and even greater wars. And then they will try to bring back the weapons that nearly caused the end of the world. But this time the weakened earth will not be able to survive. And the world will end, along with all trace of this miserable race, that can’t get along to save itself.

And even if that doesn’t happen it’ll make a great movie plot.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
 

CuongNhuka

Senior Master
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
2,596
Reaction score
31
Location
NE
Ohhh, I forgot. No matter what, fighting with knives, sticks, and hands will always be useful. We have had guns for nearly 1300 years, and yet I still worry about haveing to be in a fist fight. Something that went "out of date", before recorded histroy. We will always need a form of phyical self defense, it's just a matter if it will be even a significate reason to train. Though I suppose that in some places it has never been a major reason. And maybe will discover something new about ourselves that makes it so self defense isn't needed, or is needed more. Though I suppose I'm asking more questions then I'm answering.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
 

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
58
Location
middletown, CT USA
MartialIntent said:
stickarts said:
Hypothetically, in some far off era would you ever feel that despite a stick combatant having phenomenal fighting skill, when confronted by heavy personal armaments, he or she will be simply powerless and impotent to act against such attackers? Isn't there an element of brainwashing or naivety in all our TMAs that tell us we can handle whatever we're given?

As I say, if we ever did find ourselves in a place where sticks, swords, fists, elbows, knees and feet were the pick of the weapons available, then of course martial artists would rule being the only folk with real combat skill. But on the other hand, if we go towards increasing technological advancement, where would you see the natural home of our hard won fighting skills being in that case? Would we be simply demonstrators of an antique and mere decorative art with no practical application? Would martial arts combat be grouped along with calligraphy or bonsai?

Respects!


I think one important factor is whether our wisdom keeps in pace with our technological advancement. If not, I think there is going to be a lot of destruction and many civilizations will be reduced to using sticks!
If we do have the sense to not destroy ourselves and we maintain control over ever advancing weapons, that using our practical self defense skills will not be completely obsolete, but will be a less likely scenario.
Ask me again in a few hundred years! :0)
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
MJS said:
Great thread!! Personally, I dont see the arts dying off any time soon. People will always find a need to train, so IMO, its not going to matter if its a combat oriented art or something more along the spiritual lines, people will still train.
Thanks Mike - my question would be in that case, what will we actually be training for? Why will we be training at all with particular reference to combat? I mean, will there be any practical reason to train combat situations in martial arts of the future where presumably everyone in the street has a munitions factory in their pockets? Or will we simply be training combat because - as you say - we've got a need to train?

Having said that, I don't think our need for martial arts training and combat specifically can be overlooked. We are fighters by nature and I believe ultimately this is why so many of us need to train - and so many others simply need to find other outlets for that fighting instinct.

But anyway, the point is that while we may still be training in a hundred years, what ultimately will be the point of that training?

MJS said:
As far as there being something 'new' being sold to the public...well, pick up any MA magazine, and we'll see a ton of 'new' things out there. However, if we stop and think about it, how much of it is really new? IMO, its not so much as it being new, its how its being presented.
Can't argue with that. No sir!

Respects!
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
CuongNhuka said:
Ohhh, I forgot. No matter what, fighting with knives, sticks, and hands will always be useful. We have had guns for nearly 1300 years, and yet I still worry about haveing to be in a fist fight.
But John, isn't that because there still exists a substantial majority of normal folk who aren't armed? Hypothetically speaking, if the situation changes such that the overwhelming majority of everyday citizens are armed [and potentially with the best armed technology available in 50 or 100 years time] what use will knives, sticks and hands be in that case? Will the martial arts of those days have adapted to include such new technology? Or would we still be attempting to convince ourselves that our styles as they exist today are sufficient to handle all combat situations?

CuongNhuka said:
Something that went "out of date", before recorded histroy. We will always need a form of phyical self defense, it's just a matter if it will be even a significate reason to train. Though I suppose that in some places it has never been a major reason. And maybe will discover something new about ourselves that makes it so self defense isn't needed, or is needed more. Though I suppose I'm asking more questions then I'm answering.
And why not? That's key to any discussion isn't it?

Respects!
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
stickarts said:
I think one important factor is whether our wisdom keeps in pace with our technological advancement. If not, I think there is going to be a lot of destruction and many civilizations will be reduced to using sticks!
Frank, that's a very valid point - and one much in evidence in the daily news. With freakish weather, global warming and melting ice-caps and horrific famines it's not difficult to envisage the destruction of civilizations. It seems that already, our scientific progress has outrun our ability to use it wisely ie. cloning sheep and 60-yo women giving birth through IV treatments. And with our current regime of protracted multinational wars giving us tens of thousands of deaths, it's plain that we've got a huge technological advantage that we pervert and misuse.

Keep hold of your sticks - you may need them!

stickarts said:
If we do have the sense to not destroy ourselves and we maintain control over ever advancing weapons, that using our practical self defense skills will not be completely obsolete, but will be a less likely scenario.
I'd truly hope not but if the dogma so insidious [and often unspoken] in our arts holds, no change will be forthcoming and we will go the way of the dinosaur.

stickarts said:
Ask me again in a few hundred years! :0)
Yes, I intend to live forever too. Actually, if you Google the "aging gene", you'll find that there are many who believe aging is not inextricably tied up with being human. If it's located, aging will no longer be inevitable. Just imagine how good your Arnis will be after such a length of training! Woohoo!

Respects!
 

still learning

Senior Master
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Messages
3,749
Reaction score
42
Hello, The next world war will be here sooner than you think....expect it about 2014 or so......before 2020 anyway.....history has a way of repeating.

In the art of war....striking first has the advantages...nuclear weapons lets everyone join in the fun or in the blast.

There will always be weapons around...but knowing how to fight back with your hands and feet...may give you a few more days? ...months to live?

Food and water....will be needed ...if still alive.

Have you started your survival kit yet? ....be positive it will happen?

Knowing how the governments works or don't work ...you can say they guarrantee us a world war for sure, (usually the leaders of the countries).

"Yes" today is consider peace time for us.....enjoy the moment.....Aloha
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
still learning said:
Hello, The next world war will be here sooner than you think....expect it about 2014 or so......before 2020 anyway.....history has a way of repeating.
still learning, that's quite a specific prediction! Did you receive this in a vision? Or are you privvy to some inner-government workings? ;)
still learning said:
There will always be weapons around...but knowing how to fight back with your hands and feet...may give you a few more days? ...months to live?
Wow, only 8 years 'til our planet is destroyed and even then, being trained in the martial combat arts may, you're saying, only give us an extra couple of months max?? Well, that's my mind made up - it hardly seems worth training any more - I'm off to buy lots of chocolate and become a TV-slob! ;)

Good luck buying the rations! Plenty of baked beans and bottled water...

Respects!
 

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
58
Location
middletown, CT USA
MartialIntent said:
Frank, that's a very valid point - and one much in evidence in the daily news. With freakish weather, global warming and melting ice-caps and horrific famines it's not difficult to envisage the destruction of civilizations. It seems that already, our scientific progress has outrun our ability to use it wisely ie. cloning sheep and 60-yo women giving birth through IV treatments. And with our current regime of protracted multinational wars giving us tens of thousands of deaths, it's plain that we've got a huge technological advantage that we pervert and misuse.

Keep hold of your sticks - you may need them!


I'd truly hope not but if the dogma so insidious [and often unspoken] in our arts holds, no change will be forthcoming and we will go the way of the dinosaur.


Yes, I intend to live forever too. Actually, if you Google the "aging gene", you'll find that there are many who believe aging is not inextricably tied up with being human. If it's located, aging will no longer be inevitable. Just imagine how good your Arnis will be after such a length of training! Woohoo!

Respects!

Even the greatest grandmasters have only had the opportunity to gather knowledge from one lifetime of study! Just think what you could do within the span of several lifetimes! Lets get crackin' on discovering that aging gene and putting it to good use! :)
 
OP
MartialIntent

MartialIntent

Black Belt
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
516
Reaction score
6
Location
UK
stickarts said:
Even the greatest grandmasters have only had the opportunity to gather knowledge from one lifetime of study! Just think what you could do within the span of several lifetimes! Lets get crackin' on discovering that aging gene and putting it to good use! :)
No doubt! Of course in that situation where folk age considerably more slowly, we're eventually gonna overcrowd the place. Therefore, before human genome research gets much further - someone ought to consider how we're gonna euthanise our burdensome 250 year-old citizens. Hmmm... Still, they won't stomp us - we'll have had 235 years of martial arts combat under our belts. Now, won't that be fun??

Respects!
 

Robert Lee

Brown Belt
Joined
Apr 5, 2006
Messages
425
Reaction score
6
Fighting evolved away from M/A training as soon as the gun took away the sword. Close quarter combat can only do so much. Real life says as we age we mature away from fighting. No rageing hormones to defend I guess. M/A today is a method to improve yes for fighting. BUT look back how many street fights have you had in the past few years. Some none But yet we train . one day maybe it might be needed. Just as soldiers train for war. They may or may not ever go to war. But they train. Most all M/A weapons are far outdated for todays life. Hand to hand combat is the only thing left that still gets trained and is legal to take those weapons any where. In the future more advanced weapons are sure to come. But hand to hand combat agin is the only thing that can not change to much. Other then presurving past weapons most are not useful today. Even a knife Its useful BUT use go to jail So its catch 22 . As long as man fights with there own body tools M/a will be around Todays sword is a gun the blade is the bullet. 100 years later laser guns perhaps out date weapons of today.
 

stickarts

Senior Master
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Messages
3,902
Reaction score
58
Location
middletown, CT USA
Robert Lee said:
Fighting evolved away from M/A training as soon as the gun took away the sword. Close quarter combat can only do so much. Real life says as we age we mature away from fighting. No rageing hormones to defend I guess. M/A today is a method to improve yes for fighting. BUT look back how many street fights have you had in the past few years. Some none But yet we train . one day maybe it might be needed. Just as soldiers train for war. They may or may not ever go to war. But they train. Most all M/A weapons are far outdated for todays life. Hand to hand combat is the only thing left that still gets trained and is legal to take those weapons any where. In the future more advanced weapons are sure to come. But hand to hand combat agin is the only thing that can not change to much. Other then presurving past weapons most are not useful today. Even a knife Its useful BUT use go to jail So its catch 22 . As long as man fights with there own body tools M/a will be around Todays sword is a gun the blade is the bullet. 100 years later laser guns perhaps out date weapons of today.

Nice point about hand to hand weapons legal to carry!
 
Top