Fighting Future

MartialIntent

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In 100 years will combat [attack and defense] still comprise the core and the driving engine of the martial arts? With so many folk apparently taking up martial arts *not* merely for SD and *not* to fight, and yet more folk apparently armed and prepared to utilize those weapons, what will become of the combat aspect within martial arts in the future?

My thoughts fwiw...
Personally I wonder will we -through our disdain for combat and through our progressive social attitudes that deride combat- have winnowed away the fighting art and the martial aspects until martial arts of the future concern themselves more with dynamics, fitness, assertiveness and meditation than with actual fighting and defense.

-Or-
Is it likely that striving to be more representative of the trend towards increasingly armed society will mean mano-a-mano fighting slowly gets replaced in martial arts schools with gun and blade kata and Tazer defense woohoo! :)

-Or-
Is there a possibility that martial arts combat will fail to endure impending redundancy in the face of ever more advanced personal weapons and ever increasing use of those weapons? If in a hundred years, everyone's impeccably armed, does it render combat impossible? Compare to a nuclear situation where if both parties engage, both parties are inevitably annihilated - if in the future, you and I both have a powerful personal arsenal under our coat, strapped around our shoulders, surely we appreciate that any combat will see the end of us both?

-Or-
Is it too far-fetched to think that with the military researching automaton soldiers, remote aircraft and the like, our future bouts will be fought in some unknown virtual arena? Hey, at least nobody get's hurt ;)

Where do you see combat in the martial arts in the future? Very interested in any original views.

Respects!
 

SFC JeffJ

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Personally, I don't think hand to hand SD training will ever go out of vouge. Most aggravated assault is done with various hand to hand techniques. Yes, other violent crimes involve the use of weapons, but most assault still involves hands. I don't think that will change.

I carry a gun, knife, pepper spray, and an ASP baton. Yet I still trained in unarmed combatives. Why? Different tools for different jobs. Just because I have a hammer doesn't make all problems nails. Also, in the case of a weapon being used up close, you might have to use some unarmed skills in order to deploy the more appropiate weapon.

There will always be idiots who get ticked off and take a swing.

JeffJ
 

CuongNhuka

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A very thought provocing question. I wish I had an answer. I cann't see that far into the future. Though, unforuntly, I fear that one thing that may happen in the next 100 years that will affect the fate of the martial arts will be nothing good. Only 50 years ago, mcdojos did not exist, and styles didn't wage virtual civil wars. In the next 50-100 years I cann't image much of anything good will happen. Or I could be wrong, and people will discover the true meaning of the martial arts. And then all the mcdojos will go away, and combat will no longer be nessicary. Though, I doubt if that last part will ever be true.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade (and enlighten your mind),

John
 

beau_safken

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Thats a tough one...

I would like to think that one day there will be kinda a "Dune" method of fighting. Personal shields render most projectile weapons obsolet and bring back a resurgence of close combat training. I'm pretty damn sure something like that will happen. I mean right now we have the technology to take a direct shot from a gun and live...its not too far out there for someone to develop a shield that resembles the Dune shield...except not so boxy and 80's like. The slow blade penetrates the shield...that kind of stuff.
 

stickarts

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I think that while different styles of martial arts will gain and lose popularity, that they will still be practiced. Most of our students like the self defense aspect but don't state that as being their main reason for having enrolled.
I was watching the students spar last night and you could see there was something very satisfying to them about getting in there and punching and kicking. I don't think that will be totally replaced for a long time to come! :0)
 

tempus

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Good thought provoking question. Since some form of martial art has been around for thousands of year I think it will be around for thousands more. No matter what weapon you have one may be in a situation where the weapon breaks, runs out of ammo or they do not have it with them. There will always be a situation where one is alone and they get jumped and the skill to fight back would be needed.

Based on the world we live in it is possible that some major thing may happen where people will need survive on there own or in a small group. The basic insticnt is to fight is programmed in us, so I do not see it going away.

Just to break in to nerdness, look at the karate chops Capt. Kirk use to do :)
 
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MartialIntent

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JeffJ said:
Personally, I don't think hand to hand SD training will ever go out of vouge.
JeffJ, Thanks!
I'd like to believe that also. I think that there's an increasing reliance on weapons which I think could ultimately lead to the demise in teaching and practicing the hand to hand fighting skills. Folk may give up teaching practical combat both defensive and offensive in the face of their obsolesence [and I'm talking a way off yet - 50 years maybe]. I mean, most of us train empty hand defense against weapons of many varieties but it can sometimes be wishful thinking to envision even the skilled fighter beating the armed attacker. And in that case wouldn't we be better developing those systems which include weapons and firearms or adding the expertise in those systems to our existing arts?

JeffJ said:
Just because I have a hammer doesn't make all problems nails.
Great line!

Respects!
 
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MartialIntent

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CuongNhuka said:
A very thought provocing question. I wish I had an answer. I cann't see that far into the future. Though, unforuntly, I fear that one thing that may happen in the next 100 years that will affect the fate of the martial arts will be nothing good. Only 50 years ago, mcdojos did not exist, and styles didn't wage virtual civil wars. In the next 50-100 years I cann't image much of anything good will happen. Or I could be wrong, and people will discover the true meaning of the martial arts. And then all the mcdojos will go away, and combat will no longer be nessicary. Though, I doubt if that last part will ever be true.
Thanks John!
In many ways it's disappointing that even a young person like yourself has little optimism in the face of the bulldozer of commercialism. I believe unfortunately that the McDojos are here to stay - at least as long as there are folk who take a "keep 'em coming" attitude towards receiving their belts! Don't be discouraged though - who knows, you may have an idea in you that could spark a revolution in martial arts from the inside out!

OK, for the sake of argument, if we were to assume that society will maintain or increase the level of violence in everyday life [wars and rumors of wars etc.] what would you see *in that case* as the value of teaching or studying practical combat in the arts - at least as it is now: largely unarmed or at the very least without firearms? Would the systems we practice still continue to have value?

Respects!
 
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MartialIntent

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beau_safken said:
Thats a tough one...
I would like to think that one day there will be kinda a "Dune" method of fighting. Personal shields render most projectile weapons obsolet and bring back a resurgence of close combat training.
beau_safken, this is super stuff!
Tell me, would these shields come in all colors? ;)

Seriously though I agree and made a similar observation initially [though we've arrived at the same conclusion from different trajectories] - I was also wondering if the apparent rise of firearms users and the increasing propensity for those users -both legal and illegal- to utilize their weapons will eventually produce the extreme situation where everyone's so heavily armed that combat is a lose-lose event.

If we ever headed in that direction where actual combat was in effect obsolete 100-150 years? Who knows? If this situation arose, would there be a need for martial arts? Would martial arts combat have adapted to fit that mold? Or would the combat and the art have vanished like horse-drawn carriages in the age of the automobile?

Respects!
 
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MartialIntent

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stickarts said:
I was watching the students spar last night and you could see there was something very satisfying to them about getting in there and punching and kicking.
Frank - I appreciate your insight as ever, cheers!
Yeah I couldn't agree more. I'd hope that whether or not the combat side of the arts remains practical [and I'm talking decades into the future] we'd still be practising it regardless. I think there's something satisfying, cathartic even about a good fight which would be missed by all who experience it. However, wouldn't it be a shame if -at an unspecified time in the future- we were training ourselves up several times a week in a combat practice that amounted to no more than a hobby with as little *practical* value as origami [no offense to origami-ka!]

stickarts said:
I don't think that will be totally replaced for a long time to come!
Ah, but the question still remains, will the combative side of the arts have been replaced *after* that long time has passed? What would you say?

Respects!
 
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MartialIntent

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tempus said:
Good thought provoking question. Since some form of martial art has been around for thousands of year I think it will be around for thousands more. No matter what weapon you have one may be in a situation where the weapon breaks, runs out of ammo or they do not have it with them. There will always be a situation where one is alone and they get jumped and the skill to fight back would be needed.
tempus, thanks indeed!
So you think that no matter what weaponry we'll possess in years and decades to come, there'll still be space to practice empty handed combat? If that's the case, will our systems as we practice them today and -as you say- have done for many aeons have altered? Will it have adapted with new techniques? Or will it not resemble at all how we fight and defend ourselves today? What do you say?

tempus said:
Based on the world we live in it is possible that some major thing may happen where people will need survive on there own or in a small group. The basic insticnt is to fight is programmed in us, so I do not see it going away.
I couldn't agree more. It's an instinct in humanity which we often try to mask. How often do we try to tell ourselves that fighting is inherently bad knowing that fighting is simply the most primal way to express our frustration, anger and fear. We look at our kids acting out their frustrations this way and tell ourselves that we've outgrown that form of expression and matured into better communicators - and all this while wars rage around us and violent crime increases year on year. I think it's hard to argue that we as humans are not pre-programmed to fight.
OK, somebody take me down off my soapbox!

tempus said:
Just to break in to nerdness, look at the karate chops Capt. Kirk use to do
Whatdya mean *used* to do? Weren't that the future?? And what if that's the accurate prophecy of the future of martial arts? Our expertise will indeed be missed if 70's chop-socky makes it's comeback in 500 years. Phazers on stun... Fight! Hehe.

Respects!
 

stickarts

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I am sure I don't know the answer but wasn't it Albert Einstein that said the next great war will end up being fought with sticks and stones? (or something to that effect?) :0)
 

CuongNhuka

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MartialIntent said:
Thanks John!
In many ways it's disappointing that even a young person like yourself has little optimism in the face of the bulldozer of commercialism. I believe unfortunately that the McDojos are here to stay - at least as long as there are folk who take a "keep 'em coming" attitude towards receiving their belts! Don't be discouraged though - who knows, you may have an idea in you that could spark a revolution in martial arts from the inside out!

OK, for the sake of argument, if we were to assume that society will maintain or increase the level of violence in everyday life [wars and rumors of wars etc.] what would you see *in that case* as the value of teaching or studying practical combat in the arts - at least as it is now: largely unarmed or at the very least without firearms? Would the systems we practice still continue to have value?

Respects!

This is why I had a hard time answering, I don’t know if gun less combat will be majority over gun combat in wars. I do know that there are apparently some guys on your side of the pond that are developing a kind of cloth that can completely stop gunfire. Not like Kevlar that works in layers and to degrees, but completely stops bullets with only one layer. I think that if that is ever done, one of two things will happen. One, we’ll end with what beau_safken said, were we all go back to fist, sword and spear combat. If that happens, then martial arts will become vastly popular if they include weapons (sorry tkd guys). Or the alternative is some new weapon of unimaginable strength and power will become the new thing. Then guns will become another outdated relic of those that practice traditional styles. After all, many people classify traditional styles by whether-or-not they include the worlds most modern weapons. But no matter what, war and combat is a lose-lose situation. No matter what, anytime you strike someone for real, everyone loses.
On a side note, on of my teachers joked that I am going to be the next chuck Liddell (sorry If I misspelled that), I responded by saying “no, I’m the next Boddidarma”. It would have been cooler if he knew who that was. Sae la vie. Whether-or-not I’ll be the next Boddidarma, or start a revolution, we’ll find out. But to start a revolution I’d need followers, a lot of them. And to have followers, I’d need to be very popular. Maybe I could do like Bruce Lee, and be an actor (lol). And there’s always you guys. Ohh, thanks for believing that a goober like me a can start a revolution... I think.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
 
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MartialIntent

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stickarts said:
I am sure I don't know the answer but wasn't it Albert Einstein that said the next great war will end up being fought with sticks and stones? (or something to that effect?) :0)
Not rattan sticks though!! Seriously, I hadn't heard that before.

Apparently, when asked what kind of weapons World War III would be fought with, Einstein responded, “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

How would you interpret that? I know he wasn't in favor of nuclear deterrents so was he suggesting we'd all have wiped ourselves out in WWIII leaving nothing but the basics? If so, martial artists and hand to hand fighters would rule! With the advances in weapons, in the future, will it take an apocalypse for martial arts combat to again become a truly practical system as it was centuries ago?

Respects!
 
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MartialIntent

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Bigshadow said:
As long as there are humans there will be the need for self defense and combat will be a reality.
Bigshadow I agree no doubt, but would you say the combat of the martial arts in the future will bear any resemblence to what we practice today? Many would argue that indeed what we practice today is already outmoded and outgunned [literally]. So what of the future? Will this gap between our arts and the advances in weapons technology and increase in their use widen? Will we end up with a set of empty handed techniques that's such an anachronism in a world of technology that it verges on obsoleteness?

Respects!
 

CuongNhuka

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Anouther good saying by Einstein:
"Only two things are infinte: the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe"
And remember: ignorence leads to fear, fear leads to hate, hate leads to violence, violence leads to death, death leads to more ignorence, and that starts the whole bloody circle over again. That was a good one... maybe I should write down some of my better quotes... they'll come in handy for revoulitionaires (lol).

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
(I have anouther dumb joke, but I'll be nice to martialintent, I've poked fun at her enough today)
 
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CuongNhuka said:
This is why I had a hard time answering, I don’t know if gun less combat will be majority over gun combat in wars. I do know that there are apparently some guys on your side of the pond that are developing a kind of cloth that can completely stop gunfire. Not like Kevlar that works in layers and to degrees, but completely stops bullets with only one layer. I think that if that is ever done, one of two things will happen. One, we’ll end with what beau_safken said, were we all go back to fist, sword and spear combat. If that happens, then martial arts will become vastly popular if they include weapons (sorry tkd guys). Or the alternative is some new weapon of unimaginable strength and power will become the new thing. Then guns will become another outdated relic of those that practice traditional styles. After all, many people classify traditional styles by whether-or-not they include the worlds most modern weapons. But no matter what, war and combat is a lose-lose situation. No matter what, anytime you strike someone for real, everyone loses.
On a side note, on of my teachers joked that I am going to be the next chuck Liddell (sorry If I misspelled that), I responded by saying “no, I’m the next Boddidarma”. It would have been cooler if he knew who that was. Sae la vie. Whether-or-not I’ll be the next Boddidarma, or start a revolution, we’ll find out. But to start a revolution I’d need followers, a lot of them. And to have followers, I’d need to be very popular. Maybe I could do like Bruce Lee, and be an actor (lol). And there’s always you guys. Ohh, thanks for believing that a goober like me a can start a revolution... I think.

Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,

John
fwiw, you've got a very progressive attitude and great insight. Stay true to your values and yeah, you could do alot worse than aspire to being like the revolutionaries that overturned the martial arts orthodoxies of their day: from Bodidharma to the Gracies and many in between. Good luck!

Respects!
 

still learning

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Hello, Fighting future? Man is still in in infancy( the human race), the FIGHT or Flee response. As long as humans teach others to hate and kill.....we will always need the martial arts. The need to defend ourselves started in the caveman days.....and the need is still here.

The world arounds us has so much violence....each generation is teaching the younger generation to hate and kill....whites against blacks, jews and muslins, nation against nation, even just getting MAD or ANGRY at someone or to you.....this is all learn and taught to us growing up.

There is only one way to make this a better world and one way only...if each of us can leave one good child and they in turn leave a good child...one day the world will have only good people.

We can stop all the hate in the world right NOW! ...if we all can teach the children to be good and nice to each other.

Children look up to their parents and adults around them and want to grow up to be like them! They need good role model to follow.

It begins with YOU? Are you a good role model for all others to see and follow? ............Aloha
 
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MartialIntent

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still learning said:
Hello, Fighting future? Man is still in in infancy( the human race), the FIGHT or Flee response. As long as humans teach others to hate and kill.....we will always need the martial arts. The need to defend ourselves started in the caveman days.....and the need is still here.
Thanks still learning!
This is all true but will we still be fighting the same way in the future? Will our martial arts combat systems themselves still be valid expressions of combat decades in the future? Or will they no longer have a practical application?

still learning said:
We can stop all the hate in the world right NOW! ...if we all can teach the children to be good and nice to each other.
I wholeheartedly agree that every child models him or herself on their parents. Therefore being a good role model encourages the best in our children. However, would you give any credence to the notion that humans [as a species] are inherently aggressive with a natural combative tendency?

When one considers our nations at war and the fighting and violent crime in our world today, isn't it difficult NOT to conclude that fighting and combat are key factors in what makes us human??

Respects!
 

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