Ground Fighting in TKD
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Steve
Mostly Harmless
Exactly. Disengaging and technical stand up is just fundamental.
I have practiced moo duk kwan tsd/tkd, itf/wtf tkd and bjj. There are no ground techniques in traditional tkd. Many instructors try to impliment/add on but for the most part what they teach is incomplete and could get a student into trouble in a real fight. If you want to learn ground fighting go to a bjj/judo/wrestling school.
Manny
Senior Master
In my dojang we don't do ground fighting or grapling, all the sparring is on feet, however sometimes we do somekind of syrum wrestling, the first part of syrums is standing facing eachother and each wrestler try to take off balance the other, the student who topuches the mat with anything but fett is the looser, so basically we try to get out of balance our oponent and trow him/her to the mat. The second part of syrums is seated with our backs touching each other and upon comand get on the knees and try to put the opoenent flat on the mat, when both shoulders touch the mat for 3 seconds at last the you win. So doiung syrum on the floor is something like wrestling.
Manny
Manny
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I can offer two different insights into the original question; First, it is my belief that at least some of the original individuals that had a hand in TKD's development had techniques beyond what we 'normally' consider TKD i.e. locks, throws and fighting from the ground. I don't believe this to be ground 'grappling' i.e. MMA but rather ground 'fighting i.e. defending oneself from attack while on the ground and regaining a standing position as quickly as possible. My instructor was trained by two different Korean GM's, both of which had strong ties to Hapkido training/dojangs/organizations. I'm sure they weren't the only two.
Secondly, and I know this is a controversial subject to some, there is the 'deeper meaning' trend of thought to forms beyond the surface block/punch/kicking. I happen to subscribe to this viewpoint, my instructor does not. I do know that Itosu Sensei relabled the movements of the Pinan katas for consumption by school aged children in Okinawa as it was his belief that children could benefit from the movements of Karate but did not need to know its more deadly elements. When one looks at the Pinan katas, one can readily see locks, chokes, takedowns and defenses beyond the normal B/P/K model of interpretation. And many of these movements easily translate to effective ground defense. I believe forms teach tactics and principles as well as specific techniques. I also believe that forms 'can' have levels or layers which can readily translate into effective defense drills. This is my opinion and I believe forms training is a valuable part of training for arts that employ them. I translate this to Korean forms as many of them draw directly or indirectly from Okinawan forms. If a deeper 'element' exists in an Okinawan kata, and if a Korean form is directly or indirectly taken from or draws upon that kata it will in essense have the same information.
It is my belief that TKD can indeed go MUCH deeper as an art and indeed can be extremely well rounded. This was the foundation upon which I/we built KSD. So to offer an answer to the original question, yes, I believe TKD can be very effectively used for ground defense if one subscribes to the above viewpoint and seeks out that information contained in the forms.
Secondly, and I know this is a controversial subject to some, there is the 'deeper meaning' trend of thought to forms beyond the surface block/punch/kicking. I happen to subscribe to this viewpoint, my instructor does not. I do know that Itosu Sensei relabled the movements of the Pinan katas for consumption by school aged children in Okinawa as it was his belief that children could benefit from the movements of Karate but did not need to know its more deadly elements. When one looks at the Pinan katas, one can readily see locks, chokes, takedowns and defenses beyond the normal B/P/K model of interpretation. And many of these movements easily translate to effective ground defense. I believe forms teach tactics and principles as well as specific techniques. I also believe that forms 'can' have levels or layers which can readily translate into effective defense drills. This is my opinion and I believe forms training is a valuable part of training for arts that employ them. I translate this to Korean forms as many of them draw directly or indirectly from Okinawan forms. If a deeper 'element' exists in an Okinawan kata, and if a Korean form is directly or indirectly taken from or draws upon that kata it will in essense have the same information.
It is my belief that TKD can indeed go MUCH deeper as an art and indeed can be extremely well rounded. This was the foundation upon which I/we built KSD. So to offer an answer to the original question, yes, I believe TKD can be very effectively used for ground defense if one subscribes to the above viewpoint and seeks out that information contained in the forms.
Earl Weiss
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Here is some stuff we were working on and it was easier to show than explaint the variations
http://www.youtube.com/user/EarlWeiss#p/u/12/6dy5K9hpyiI
http://www.youtube.com/user/EarlWeiss#p/u/11/Cuh6DnplbXo
http://www.youtube.com/user/EarlWeiss#p/u/15/DOEF-eBYOyE
Earl Weiss
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Instead of just "Anything goes" do you work on specific methods to try and escape that situation as effectively as possible?
