Question on defense against grappling in street fight

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

How old are you?
BJJ is actually pretty good for older folk

In your opinion, how old is too old to start?

 

[Darren1 1]

I know jujitsu grappling is very effective in UFC and other competition, easily beat striking MA by taking them down. I training in kick boxing long time ago and I am too old to train in ground game now. I was thinking about what to do in self defense on the street if I meet someone that do grappling.
From my understanding, grappling is effective in competition because of the rules of no eyes gauging and no hitting on the back of the head. BUT there is no rules in street fights. I think eyes gauging is the most effective for self defense against a grappler. If you look at the way the grappler tackle the opponent, their head will by around the chest or waist level of the opponent. For a second or two, I can easily reach the eyes with my hand and gauge the eyes.
Even if I get taken down and in guard position, it's natural to grab and hold onto the head of the person on top. I can still reach his eyes.
I just want to get opinion whether I am right or not. REMEMBER, I am talking about street fight with no rules, I think this is the weak point of grappling in real life. Please comment
thanks

very hard to say when it comes to street fighting and as you quoted there are no rules, just train and hope you do well. cause its all over the place in a street fight if the fight goes to long.

 

[drop bear114 53]

For self defence I would suggest learning takedowns.

But learn ones you can control.

Shivworks Aparently kind of has that issue that because they do seminars they really have to have takedowns that can be trained resisted. But cand also be drilled enough times that people can learn it.

And there are enough of them out there to put together a decent layman's system.

Body locks and back takes.

Which still can go pair shaped because people can sit on your knee. But. You tell them not to.

Now obviously you can lower someone down or smash them.

And all those eye gouging, neck slapping guys have a much harder time with this. Because they are not front on. And their arms are often pinned.

A police one. Where he pins the arms a bit more and takes the back.

(Bear in mind Kenny Florian is a legitimate guy. Kenny Florian - Wikipedia)

And the older John will method that kind of shows live entries.

And last of all if you are good at them.

I still hit a ridiculous rolling guillotine. And I can do it on guys who haven't taken falls before. And not cripple them.

And on concrete. I have done it on the street.

Military. Using a boxing base.

Still hitting that body lock. It is such a multitool for a person who wants basic self defence grappling.

 

[Alan0354]

Military. Using a boxing base.

Still hitting that body lock. It is such a multitool for a person who wants basic self defence grappling.

American military are very far behind times just like everything else in government. Just saying.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

American military are very far behind times just like everything else in government. Just saying.

He is Australian so…

 

[drop bear114 53]

He is Australian so…

I am better?

More handsome?

More fun at parties.

 

[drop bear114 53]

American military are very far behind times just like everything else in government. Just saying.

Multiple sources coming to the same conclusion.

 

[Alan0354]

Multiple sources coming to the same conclusion.

Governments are very slow in changing no matter what country.

 

[Kung Fu Wang115 145]

The second video doesn't mean anything, the guy punch so slow you have time to do all the fancy stuffs.

I have been on both sides of the "rhino guard" training myself. So, I know exactly how the feeling is. When your opponent's arms are in your striking path, speed will have no meaning there because you know that your punch will hit on your opponent's arms first.

If your punch tries to go around your opponent's arms by using circular punches (such as hook, uppercut, overhand), your face is exposed, and his 2 hands fist will hit on your face first.

If your "rhino guard" have strong defense that none of your opponent's punches can get in until he gets totally exhausted, you already win by playing defense.

 

[Alan0354]

I have been on both sides of the "rhino guard" training myself. So, I know exactly how the feeling is. When your opponent's arms are in your striking path, speed will have no meaning there because you know that your punch will hit on your opponent's arms first.

If your punch tries to go around your opponent's arms by using circular punches (such as hook, uppercut, overhand), your face is exposed, and his 2 hands fist will hit on your face first.

If your "rhino guard" have strong defense that none of your opponent's punches can get in until he gets totally exhausted, you already win by playing defense.

You didn't read my response, I said I practice punching high and low. When you have high guard, I punch to the stomach and you will lower your hands to try to block the lower punch. That's how I practice all these years, punching high to the face and low to the stomach randomly.

Important to note, I am not looking at the video and think about what to do. IT's too easy to monday morning quarterbacking. I mean I practice punching high and low for years, it's automatic, don't need to think.

ALSO another important thing that my former instructor drilled into us to practice that really works against the first video. We practice right after punching, we bring both hands up to face level to protect the face. Look at the video, if I bring my hands automatically after punching, my hands will be in between the opponent and my upper body, this will make it very hard for the person to do the grabbing. this is what I practice all these years when I do punching.

I saw your video on Judo, I actually had one year of judo under my belt when I was about 14. I learn those throws. ALSO I learned it's easy to defend those judo throws. Just stick the arms out and it will make it a lot more difficult to get it to make the throw. I guess it's the same against BJJ take down too. Thanks for reminding me about judo take down defense, I guess it will work against some of the BJJ grabbling also. I have to put my mind set of judo in my practice how to avoid take down if they attack high.

Every style have strong and weak point. When Gracie used BJJ to beat everyone in UFC 1 and 2, he took strikers by surprise. Obviously it did not last long and people adapted in a few years. BUT the rule of no hitting on the back of the head and neck really save the BJJ and other grappling styles. You can try to keep defending grappling, just let people hit the back of the head and neck, you'll see the whole scene of MMA will change.

 

[Alan0354]

I have been on both sides of the "rhino guard" training myself. So, I know exactly how the feeling is. When your opponent's arms are in your striking path, speed will have no meaning there because you know that your punch will hit on your opponent's arms first.

If your punch tries to go around your opponent's arms by using circular punches (such as hook, uppercut, overhand), your face is exposed, and his 2 hands fist will hit on your face first.

If your "rhino guard" have strong defense that none of your opponent's punches can get in until he gets totally exhausted, you already win by playing defense.

I don't want to make the other post too long. One thing I practice now is TKD RIDGE HANDS. I actually hug the heavy bag, using front of the wrist swing like extreme hook punch to hit the back side of the heavy bag. This is to simulate when a grabbler bear hug me and I use ridge hand to hit the back of the head and neck.

I have been practicing ridge hands on the 6X6 wood poll for over a year now to toughen up the front of the wrist bone. I am sure it's not comfortable being hit at the back of the head by ridge hand like this.

It's all about looking at the videos and think of what to practice moves that work, not by any style. This is science.

 

[wab25]

I saw your video on Judo, I actually had one year of judo under my belt when I was about 14. I learn those throws. ALSO I learned it's easy to defend those judo throws. Just stick the arms out and it will make it a lot more difficult to get it to make the throw.

FYI.... sticking your arms out may prevent some basic Judo throws from working.... but sticking your arms out also opens you up for other Judo throws. The reason you did not see those used against you, is that it can be quite dangerous for a person with only one year of ukemi practice to be thrown like that. It is a bad habit that most people fall into when they start Judo or Japanese Jujitsu.... They start doing it because it "seems to work" in randori.... it seems to prevent the throws. But what is really happening, is that you are stopping other inexperienced folk, who have not learned the other throws.... or you are working with people who know those throws, but they also know you are not ready to safely take those falls and they let you work on things at your level, because they don't want you to get hurt.

When my students are ready for those throws... I usually work with them in a randori situation where they have to defend from being thrown. As soon as they stick their arms out or start pushing me away or blocking my entry... their feet leave the floor as they are being thrown. It is usually very eye opening for them. I then remind them of all the times I told them, not to defend like that and that defending like that is only setting up bigger throws for the other guy to use against you. It suddenly makes sense to them.

The defense you found.... has literally been found by every single Judo student that there ever was. People with any decent Judo experience, can quite easily get around that defense and even use that defense to get their throw.

 

[dunc]

72, too old. Just had a hip replacement also.

Yeah might be a bit tough at 72
I've had a hip replacement and can train 100%, but am a spritely 53 year old
The only way you could do it would be to find someone similar age to train with or do privates

 

[dunc]

In your opinion, how old is too old to start?

Depends on the person
I know one or two folk in their early 60s who have a go at it and lots of 50 somethings train in general classes just fine (albeit with care as to who they roll with)

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

I am better?

More handsome?

More fun at parties.

All that and a bag of chips.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

I am better?

More handsome?

More fun at parties.

The bar is USA is set pretty low right now so I wouldn’t be crowing about it too much.

 

[Alan0354]

FYI.... sticking your arms out may prevent some basic Judo throws from working.... but sticking your arms out also opens you up for other Judo throws. The reason you did not see those used against you, is that it can be quite dangerous for a person with only one year of ukemi practice to be thrown like that. It is a bad habit that most people fall into when they start Judo or Japanese Jujitsu.... They start doing it because it "seems to work" in randori.... it seems to prevent the throws. But what is really happening, is that you are stopping other inexperienced folk, who have not learned the other throws.... or you are working with people who know those throws, but they also know you are not ready to safely take those falls and they let you work on things at your level, because they don't want you to get hurt.

When my students are ready for those throws... I usually work with them in a randori situation where they have to defend from being thrown. As soon as they stick their arms out or start pushing me away or blocking my entry... their feet leave the floor as they are being thrown. It is usually very eye opening for them. I then remind them of all the times I told them, not to defend like that and that defending like that is only setting up bigger throws for the other guy to use against you. It suddenly makes sense to them.

The defense you found.... has literally been found by every single Judo student that there ever was. People with any decent Judo experience, can quite easily get around that defense and even use that defense to get their throw.

I am not saying sticking arms out is the solution of resisting the takedown. First, not all people are expert in judo, also, pushing with arms create a split second delay so I can strike. It's all a combination.

On that note, judo to me is NOT a practical self defense art. TOO TOO many restrictions for practical self defense. For grappling, BJJ and wrestling is so much more effective.

BUT

I strongly advice people to take a year of judo, not for fighting, but for surviving in real life. I MIGHT NOT BE AROUND TO TALK HERE IF NOT FOR A YEAR OF JUDO TRAINING. I fell off a truck that is quite high and landed on my back. The "break fall" I practiced in judo kicked in. I tucked my head forward, slapped the concrete floor with both hands to break the fall. My head snapped back from the fall, BUT I only felt my hair touch the concrete, my head never tough the ground. IF I DIDN'T HAVE THE JUDO TRAINING, I DON'T KNOW I WOULD SURVIVE WITHOUT SUSTAINING INJURY. Only my Rolex watch band got scratched up from slapping on the ground!!! I just got up and dust off and swearing!!!!

I still practicing break fall every week in the concrete garage floor. I just lie on the floor, flip the legs and bounce the whole body off the floor for like 6inches using one leg and drop down. Then slap the floor with both hands to break the fall. This helps to shake the bones and joints to keep them in shape. This breaking fall can be life saving.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

I am not saying sticking arms out is the solution of resisting the takedown. First, not all people are expert in judo, also, pushing with arms create a split second delay so I can strike. It's all a combination.

On that note, judo to me is NOT a practical self defense art. TOO TOO many restrictions for practical self defense. For grappling, BJJ and wrestling is so much more effective.

BUT

I strongly advice people to take a year of judo, not for fighting, but for surviving in real life. I MIGHT NOT BE AROUND TO TALK HERE IF NOT FOR A YEAR OF JUDO TRAINING. I fell off a truck that is quite high and landed on my back. The "break fall" I practiced in judo kicked in. I tucked my head forward, slapped the concrete floor with both hands to break the fall. My head snapped back from the fall, BUT I only felt my hair touch the concrete, my head never tough the ground. IF I DIDN'T HAVE THE JUDO TRAINING, I DON'T KNOW I WOULD SURVIVE WITHOUT SUSTAINING INJURY. Only my Rolex watch band got scratched up from slapping on the ground!!! I just got up and dust off and swearing!!!!

I still practicing break fall every week in the concrete garage floor. I just lie on the floor, flip the legs and bounce the whole body off the floor for like 6inches using one leg and drop down. Then slap the floor with both hands to break the fall. This helps to shake the bones and joints to keep them in shape. This breaking fall can be life saving.

Sounds like you would do just fine starting jujitsu if you are doing all that. Just stay clear of the young buck white belts.

 

[Alan0354]

Sounds like you would do just fine starting jujitsu if you are doing all that. Just stay clear of the young buck white belts.

I start this thread on questioning about grappling. As for me, my self defense is the cane. I have been spending half and half time between practicing bare hand fight and cane. To me, this is aerobic part of my workout. I do like 25min/day 6 days a week on this. Then doing weights.

 

[Wing Woo Gar49 11]

I start this thread on questioning about grappling. As for me, my self defense is the cane. I have been spending half and half time between practicing bare hand fight and cane. To me, this is aerobic part of my workout. I do like 25min/day 6 days a week on this. Then doing weights.

I think you are doing great for 72!