first move in a REAL fight

[GouRonin]

:fart: :fart: :fart: :fart:

 

[chufeng]

Gou....I L-u-u-u-v that !!!

:asian:
chufeng

 

[GouRonin]

I knew of a guy who when faced with overwhelming odds actually reached into his pants to pull out his own feeces and threw them at his opponent. When I came on the scene he was actually chasing the guy with a handfull of cr@p yelling, "You want some of this? Do ya! Huh? Do you?"

Needless to say none of us wanted any of it and we left him alone to calm down.

 

[DWright]

Given this is a hypothetical situation I see a quick trapping hands then a solid kick to the knee. If he can't walk he can't run, and then I would merely walk away.

 

[Eraser]

Well if he\she is just standing there with their arms sightly up.. i'd do nothing.. until they throw the first punch.. there is no conflict... we are just simply standing around..
And when they do decide to punch.. id just step out of the way of the punch.... and then wait for their next move..
no need to cause severe harm for a person who is just throwing a punch...

ive said this before.. and i truly believe in it..

In true self defence.... there is no body contact!
:asian:

 

[Damian Mavis]

Eraser that is a a great attitude and very idealistic but real life doesnt quite work that way. I'm very fast but every time I evade a strike and my opponent misses I know that I'm just putting off what is eventually going to happen...he's going to make contact sooner or later or grab me for that matter.

I believe in another line... "blocking and evading is just putting off the inevitable, you have to stop them fast."

I agreed with you fully until you stated " In true self defence.... there is no body contact!" Me thinks you've never looked down the barrel of an enraged steroid case. You can't even outrun those guys. There is definately body contact to some degree even if just to stop him from beating your face in by putting your hands up. What would you say to a rape victim? How are they supposed to defend themselves with no body contact? The rapist is bigger, stronger and faster and is trying to get his meaty paws all over the victim with all his effort.

I'm just looking for your insight on this topic as I disagree with you but I honestly wish it were possible and I think it's a great philosophy although seriously flawed when dealing with reality.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[Bushido]

Originally posted by thaiboxer

What would be the first move you would try to perform if confronted in a real fight? (lets just say the opponent is standing, almost front on, with his arms slightly raised to his chest and clinched for arguments sake), what would be your first killer move?

Everyone may say what they want, it is impossible to know how someone would react in a real confrontation: stress/fear is playing an important factor. There is NO best answer, but alot can be done.


-Bushido

 

[hand2handCombat]

i would do a "teep" then side kick followed with a spinn around kick..if he swung at me, i hace this MT move to throw him down.

 

[Aikikitty]

Well, if this is an imaginary attack.....then I want a dumb attacker! When he threatens me, I can just point to somewhere behind him and say, "Look! Good Year Blimp!" and then run away or do a technique on him while his back was turned. If I had the impression that he didn't know anything about martial arts, then I'd calmly inform him that I am a black belt in Origami and hope that the fool would run. :shrug: :rofl:

Unfortunately, I doubt that any of that would work in the real world (although I heard somewhere that the "black belt in Origami" was a true story and the attacker ran:shrug: ). In a real life situation, I'd try whatever I could to run away and if I couldn't then I suppose I'd just try my best to do whatever technique I hope would work and then make my escape and get some help.

Robyn :boing2:

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

I agreed with you fully until you stated " In true self defence.... there is no body contact!" Me thinks you've never looked down the barrel of an enraged steroid case.

Self-defense ideally in a case like that involves no body contact--not being there in the first place, running, calling for help, talking them down (it's been done, even with people on drugs), using the environment to block him from getting to you, and so on.

The martial arts are a part of self-defense, but not all of it! Self-defense using the martial arts is likely to involve contact, but self-defense more generally need not. I agree with the spirit of the statement that in true self defence there is no body contact. How many situations could be avoided by not being someplace you know you shouldn't be? Not all, but many. How many situations that involve fighting could be avoided by one party not fighting (e.g. bar fights that work their way up)? The situation can often be diffused.

Self-defense is a more general term than martial arts!

 

[Damian Mavis]

I fully agree arnisador and that is exactly what I teach but... I was responding to his description of simply evading all the incoming attacks.

"no need to cause severe harm for a person who is just throwing a punch..." What about the second punch and the third? And the 100th when hes in a frenzy and out to disfigure you? You can't evade them all.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[arnisador]

I agree, in that context--I always say you can probably block or at least sufficiently muffle one punch, maybe a second, but not a third--you've got to start counterstriking as soon as possible.

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Bushido



Everyone may say what they want, it is impossible to know how someone would react in a real confrontation: stress/fear is playing an important factor. There is NO best answer, but alot can be done.


-Bushido

a few people have said this, i just wanted to know what "hypothetically" you would do? who said anything about a best answer? i certainly didnt. its all hypothetical, and i guess i was trying to really get a first reaction move out of some of the martial artists here.

personally id stick to my boxing and muay thai basic techniques, because they are safe even when intoxicated. i found out about a month and a half ago a left/right does the trick pretty convincingly. this guy had been harrassing for months when i seen him on the town here, and was agressive once more, shoved into me the last couple of occasions, and with threatening comments. well quit efrankly i warned him enough, and even greeted him the night of the incident, only to be told "f**k off" he then proceeded to place his glass on the ground and kick it at me, hung around for a bit (as i clenched my fists by side) and as he just started to move to shove me again, i let the big fella have it.
So i guess that kind of thing i was after, not what is the best move, what move do you think you would use next - hypothetically. why does everyone have to think perfect all the time. there are heaps of ways to skin a cat.

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by The Opal Dragon

[Unfortunately, I doubt that any of that would work in the real world (although I heard somewhere that the "black belt in Origami" was a true story and the attacker ran:shrug: ).

if i was a mad thug looking for a fight, and someone told me they had a blackbelt, i reckon id want to hurt them even more, probably the worst move you could make telling someone what you do, regardless. probably an indication that you cant fight if you were to state what you do all the time. as compared to confident person, who doesnt need to brag, just knows he can do it.

just my two bits worth

 

[thaiboxer]

Originally posted by Damian Mavis

I fully agree arnisador and that is exactly what I teach but... I was responding to his description of simply evading all the incoming attacks.

"no need to cause severe harm for a person who is just throwing a punch..." What about the second punch and the third? And the 100th when hes in a frenzy and out to disfigure you? You can't evade them all.

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

i agree with you totally, these guys who say these things obviously havent done any hard sparring and/or fought before, take them out before the fight escalates, because thats when people can really get hur, if it goes on for a long period.

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Eraser
Well if he\she is just standing there with their arms sightly up.. i'd do nothing.. until they throw the first punch.. there is no conflict... we are just simply standing around..
And when they do decide to punch.. id just step out of the way of the punch.... and then wait for their next move..
no need to cause severe harm for a person who is just throwing a punch...

Hmmm...and you say you have never done any systema eh?

Vlad does say that what we do comes naturally. Of course common sense isn't always so common. But it's good to see that some of it is always around.

 

[Kenpo Wolf]

B1b, which is a left handed wrist grab pulling horizontally toward the left with a righ punch to the ribs, followed by a wrist lock and takedown . Maximum control with minimum force, as one of my instructors use to say. I did'nt want to hurt to hurt the guy , much, because I did'nt want his gorgeous sister mad at me.

 

[Eraser]

Hey all....

All i was doing was answering the theads question... First move in an attack... my first move is to avoid the FIRST punch... the thread never asked about 2nd or 3rd... in that case of course I would counterstrike... wounldn't even think twice..

but with my saying.. (in true self defence, there is no body contact) you are not suppose to take the words for what they read.. you must try to understand what they are... I don't mean literally no body contact.. (like not even laying a finger on them...) as a MA-ist you have to know how much force to use.. like i said earlier.. im not gonna break a fella's neck just because he threw a punch at me... you can make a person fall to the ground without throwing a punch..
We train almost every class avoiding direct hard punches.. we use natural law therories (from our Kosho Ryu buddies) and learn how to read our attackers and knowing how our and their body will react to certain things.. its really quite amazing..
Its hard to explain.. and its not somthing you learn overnight...
but im slowly understanding and grasping the concept..
Believe in what you want.. im not here to brag about how great this or that is.. (that's just not me...)
I dont think less of anyone who doubts me.. but i hope that you don't think less of me because i believe in my style of MA..

Thats all.....nuff said

 

[Damian Mavis]

I took you literally when you said true self defence didnt need ANY contact and was confused. Glad to see your not crazy!

Damian Mavis
Honour TKD

 

[sweeper]

hmm.. in a social situation I always keep my arms up.. usualy because if I'm at a party I have adrink and the other arm is to prevent someone bumping my drink.. put if I was gona fight and there was no way out I would go for his legs, if I had a drink I would throw it twards his face and stomp the knee/shin if I didn't I would throw a jab and stomp the knee/shin. I would use the strike as a takedown, after contact just keep pressing through till they fall. If I don't land that kick than I'm probably close in so I would have to box but my goal there would be to get some distance and the usual method I use is a side step or a retreat combined with a low kick. basicly my strategy would be to control his movement through low line kicks and try to flank him so I could control a limb or out box him.