Succesfully fighting two attackers: myth or reality?

[Bushido]

Not running away, fighting!

-Bushido

 

[Kirk]

It's been done by many.

 

[sweeper]

I think alot of more skilled fighters could take on multiple unskilled fighters.

 

[LanceWildcat1]

We practice it in theory, and we've even sparred two on one or three on one, just to see how to put theory into action. Some things work, somethings don't-that's why we practice, right!! :soapbox:
Lance Hyatt

 

[SolidTiger]

will in most forms it's about fighting more then one person...
and I think I can take two at once...

it's hard but it can happen, some people can fight four people
at once it depend on you skill...

Thank you

SolidTiger

 

[arnisador]

I once fought three muggers to a standstill. They just jumped me at 2AM one morning when I was out walking (which was not very smart self-defense on my part).

The untrained fighters are apt to have one group assault strategy that has worked for them in the past and if you can break that up and keep moving you've got a chance. Obviously, this isn't a great situation to be in.

 

[Monkey King]

MOst untrained fighters have the same M.O.
One usually starts the attack while the other tries to blindside you. The time frame between the two actions can be either instantaneous or prolonged. The key, IMHO, is to become the agressor. This will ensure success. Unleash the tiger that is most often chained.

In all of the fights I've been in against multiple opponents, this has never failed.

Is it realistic? Absolutly!

When the Group Assault strategy is displayed, follow Arnisador's advice. It's right on the money.

My 2

 

[SolidTiger]

You go for walks around 2am?

Thank you

SolidTiger

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by SolidTiger

You go for walks around 2am?

I was young and foolish--taking a break from a writing/research project. I work best at night and would usually stay up working until 3AM or so. But I took a break to clear my heand and ended up in a bad section of town because I wasn't paying attention to my environment, just to what was in my head--and was attacked on the bridge that leads right to the steps of the RI state capitol building in Providence. Another 100 feet and I'd have been on the capitol lawn. The NCAA tournament was in town and I think that was part of it.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by Bushido

Not running away, fighting!

-Bushido

How do you define Successfully?

Winning? Taking no damage? or just surviving?

The reason I ask, is that in all of my serious confrontations, with two or more people, I have never come away unharmed. I have held my own against two, three, and four people before. Am I that good or am I that lucky? Well as I have not won the lotto I assume I have used my luck elsewhere.

Arnisador has a good point to break their plan or rhythm. Also, if one or two can tie you up it is the next one in line that gets the strikes in.

So, I guess it depends upon your definition of successfully. Did I get a black eye, and lived where they got bruised or broken ribs? is this success?

In my limited opinion, I am happy to have survived all the stupid and ignorant things and places I have done and seen.

Good question.

With respects

Rich

 

[MTisGreat]

depends on the number of ppl. i can probably take 3. the objective when fighting many ppl is to disable them. a kick in the face would take care of one. tripping another would temporarily take them out. the 3rd guy would hit u, but who minds that when worse can happen. when they see what u can do, no one wants to go in anymore, they.re intimidated.

PS : its not as easy as it sounds, it requires lots of training

 

[sweeper]

fighting untrained fighters is one thing, I tihnk it would be alot more difficult to take on multiple skilled or even lightly skilled fighters, I remember sparring two on one about a year ago in my JKD class, it was me and one of my freinds against a much more experienced fighter (that easily had mopped the floor with either of us) but two on one we did fine..

 

[Cruentus]

The worse I had it was when I was attacked by 4 people when I was 19 years old. Their ages, according to the police, ranged between 24-29 yrs old. They were construction guys out in the sticks, had been drinkin,' and were lookin' to scrap. I only weighed 155 lbs then, and they where all a lot bigger then me (ranging from aprox. 165-220-ish). They all had fighting experience, even if it was only street experience, and I had almost no experience street fighting.

It was a huge reality check for me. I did suffer a black eye, but they where a lot worse off. One of them had a wrist broken so bad that I'm sure it'll never heal right.

I'm not going to get into too many details, mostly because when something like that happends it happends so fast that the details are cloudy. I wasn't afraid; I actually didn't have any emotion during the incident, only a job to do. I just had to survive.

I think that God was with me because I made it out alive. All it would have took was one false move, and I might not be writing this today. I do believe they might have killed me, or at least hospitalized me. I think the police agreed because, for my sake, they let me go without filling out a report. Some of the attackers were damaged badly enough to have the grounds to try to sue me. I didn't want to persecute them; their damages and embarresment was better then any charges I could have pressed.

Afterwords, I felt like S**t. I felt sick, and upset. I couldn't believe that I could hurt someone as badly as I had, or that a group of grown men could be as blood thirsty and irrational as they. I was younger, so what do you expect.

I think that to answer Rich's question, and to leave off with some sort moral, is that no one ever wins in any fight. Even though I "won" I suffered (mostly) psychological damage from it. If you have a soul, you really don't want to know what your capabilities are in respect to hurting others. I think if you fight at all, you already lost. I survived, though, and that's what counts

In fighting, I think that's the only thing that counts.

Sorry for the ramble....

Peace.:asian:

 

[Ravensign]

I think a powerful thing working for/against people in a mugging scenarios is the predator/prey behaviors.

Muggers are acting in a predatory manner, and they are keying psychologically off of prey signals. They can see somone unconfident, nervous, starting to get rattled, and know they have it easy. I think that as they being to approach the time of the encounter as they are prepping, their psychological state becomes even more emotional and less rational, and these signals carry more weight.

If you turn into them, and use you MA training in an agressive manner, I bet you one of the guys just bolts if not loses initiative from complete surprise.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Bushido

Not running away, fighting!

-Bushido

Stupid question. You can't win this one.

It really depends on the attackers, who and what do they know, and after that is established, it's quesiton of yourself. Have you been drinking, or have a fever ro your arm is broken, and then there's the situation your in. Do you have a child with youm or GF or an old person.

You can't define all this, so it boils down to worst case scenario, and that's that they are at least as good as you are. then do the math. You'll loose.

But if you asking if somebody ever did this, we'll I 've never seen it but heard that people have. But what you want with this info. I don't understand.

/Yari

 

[Cruentus]

If you turn into them, and use you MA training in an agressive manner, I bet you one of the guys just bolts if not loses initiative from complete surprise.

Ravensign: You make a lot of really good points and conjectures, so please don't think I'm going to try to deminish that, but I do want to reinerate a point. It is important to realize that much of what we do ( is only "in theory". In the scenario I described previously, these dudes weren't running from me, a little 155 lb 19 year old, for nothing. Even when I was hurting them, they didn't want to stop because they couldn't believe that some baby-faced kid was beating them. You are correct about the preditor mentality, though, and rational going out the window. I feel that it is just important for everyone to realize that there is no one good answer, and that anything could happend regardless of what you train for. One of the attackers "bolting" or "lossing initiative" is good in theory, but that can't be the expected outcome. No one outcome can ever be anticipated or expected.

You can't define all this, so it boils down to worst case scenario, and that's that they are at least as good as you are. then do the math. You'll loose.

Yari: Some good points also. It is true that the dynamics of the situation are undefinable until afterwards. I wish, though, that it was as imperical as "do(ing) the math" to determine who'll win or lose. I guess one of the things I have learned is that truely ANYTHING can happend. Some fluk could happend I could get my butt kicked by a 12 year old woman midget, or I could get attacked by 4 people with the odds totally against me and I could come out on top. It's the "David and Goliath" scenario, in a sense. We train, but I think that truely anything can happend. It is good to keep that in mind, though; then we will remain humble realizing we could get beat at any time, but we will also have the courage we need by realizing we could win at anytime also.

Just my opinions.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by PAUL



We train, but I think that truely anything can happend. It is good to keep that in mind, though; then we will remain humble realizing we could get beat at any time, but we will also have the courage we need by realizing we could win at anytime also.

Just my opinions.

Agree....
To fight, you have to accept loosing.


Concerning the math -part. What I was trying to say was that the "weapon vs. unarmed, or two vs. on" situations, are not discussable. But if you expect all 3 (2 against 1) to be at the same level of MA, the chances of getting your butt kicked are large.

I belive that the most important thing is not to worry about what can happen, but worry about how I can improve myself, and when something happens do your best.

/Yari

 

[Ravensign]

No one outcome can ever be anticipated or expected.

You have a good point Paul.

I was just trying to say that these factors can work for you, not that that's going to happen.

You can take any scenario and add, "..but then one of the guys pulled a gun" and it radically changes things.

My Kali guru would have a pretty good chance against several unarmed attackers I feel, but a big fat 0% against someone with a gun 20 feet away.

It's not very sexy, but the best self defense I guess is total avoidance. Don't be in that alley in the first place, etc.

 

[Bod]

OK - my credibility is about to go out of the window.

I succesfully fought 9 - 12 opponents!

Let me qualify this - I didn't actually hit anybody. I was about 23 and a group of youths of 17-19 were walking towards me, of which two were my size or bigger. So individually I'd have been laughing. The biggest chap was standing at the back, on the left. There was a high wall on the right, and the road was on the left.

I was alerted about 10 yards away by the fact that for such a big group of lads they were awfully quiet.

I did not have the option of running from them as they were between me and the only viable way out of the situation.

Somehow I 'felt' their plan: attack when I got to the middle of their spread out pack. I could see the two ringleaders in the middle trying to look inconspicuous though they were clearly the most wired. They would most likely make the first move. It sounds like I had done a lot of thinking, but I didn't, it all just clicked.

I figured I would move with their plan until the final moment. Exactly how Arnisador suggests: 'break their plan or rhythm'.

So I drifted from the street side towards the the leftmost of the two ringleaders, making sure I had my left foot forward as I reached him. He grabbed my trouser pocket, and as he did so I sprang into life and did a big two steps diagonally towards the big guy at the back left, aiming a massive low slung ninpo style punch at him. He moved to the left and I ran through the gap swearing my head off. They sniggered as I ran off swearing, to the minicab office 50 yards beyond them, but they didn't follow me.

The surprise, and sudden change of pace got me out of there. Also they clearly had a plan - wait for the ringleaders to make their move and surround me. All the time I played dumb. One on one or even two I might have tried to appear alert, but on that many I guess they were going to give it a go whatever.

At the time I had been meditating heavily on Musashi's advice on fighting multiple opponents, which was lucky. He assumes that you will be more skillful than your attackers, which is sensible because otherwise you would die back then with swords and everything. It certainly would have turned out completely differently if my opponents were all prepared to fight me individually, yet still attacked en masse.

 

[arnisador]

An untrained observer would have no idea how much strategy went into relatively little movement. Congratulations! That's self-defense!