what the hell kind of thinking is this

[Aiki Lee]

RANT!

My teacher was doing some self-defense seminars for a local high school, which he has been doing for years. But for the first time he enocuntered a group of people who he had never met before.

Normally he tries to get people into the sruvivor mindset like this:
"Imagine a 300 pound hell's angel biker with scras and tatoos all over his face is threatening you. Who wants to rush in and fight with him?"

no one raises their hands

"now imagine that 300 pund man is pounding the person you love most in the face over and over again and then decides he's going to have his way and begins taking his pants off. Who's fighting now?"

almost everyone raises their hands...usually until this day.

Normally my teacher does this to get peole out of victim mentality and get around the fear of injury in order for them to gain the mindset that it is okay to fight back, but this time about 20 people out of 250 said that no matter what they would not jump in to fight off an attacker who was murdering their loved ones.

WHAT!?
They said they didn't want to put themselves at risk and wouldn';t want others to place themselves in danger for another's sake. It makes no sense! I gaurantee that if any of these peope where to face a life threatening situation they would pray with all their might that someone would assit them.

Have any of you met people like this? How can anyone think this way. It's so baffling!

 

[Bruno@MT]

What was their reason?
Personally, I can't imagine not fighting for my loved ones. To the death if need be.

 

[searcher]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.




My motto is:
I come to you with only "Karate" - empty hands.
I have no weapons; but should I be forced to
defend myself, my principles or my honor;
should it be a matter of life or death,
of right or wrong; then here are my weapons -
"Karate" - my empty hands.


Ed Parker said it best and it works for me.

 

[terryl965]

Hippies is th wrong word but flower childern would be a better fit.

Me I would either fight or die with them.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

well, get to it on getting the message across society that this is unacceptable, nobody fixes a problem if they're nrever told one exists.

 

[Nolerama]

Hippies? Democrats?

Come on. That's just uncalled for. I own a pair of Birkenstocks... and I voted Democrat. I'll protect my family and those I love.

Jokes not taken as funny aren't really jokes.

Besides... they're called pacifists.

Or sorry to say Himura, these people could have been unresponsive to your teacher's approach to violent situations.

If you approached me with that kind of scenario, I really wouldn't take you seriously or participate in the hand-raising game just to satisfy some individual's perception on self defense.

I don't believe in placing people in a fear mindset, anyway. Many won't learn that way... At least, not effectively.

When you place an audience's mind in fear, it closes off their ability to positively connect with you. How is that a good teaching method?

 

[Sukerkin]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Ahem ... this particular hippy can use a sword pretty well and was a biker too . Having long hair and a desire to find a peaceful/equitable solution (if one exists) does not mean that when push comes to shove you're not prepared to defend yourself.

I'm guessing that again we're running into a perjorative label that means different things on different sides of the Pond. Even so, I am very surprised that a social movement that achieved considerable political clout is held in such denigration these days.

 

[stone_dragone]

To defend those who didn't raise their hands at your instructor's seminar, there are many who wouldn't participate in a "hand-raising" exercise regardless of the topic.

Perhaps in the original post we missed the point that further discussion with the group is what disclosed the ideals of those who said that they wouldn't want to fight to save themselves or someone else.

There is, however, a faction of society that fails to understand that violence exists and no amount of hugging, singing or marijuana smoke will change that. I'm not against trying, though.

And I like my "Air-Jesus" style sandals very much...

 

[seasoned]

Honor, pride, responsibility, accountability, self respect. Most of us were raised in the era where these were the norm. Sadly enough, I feel there is a generation coming up that does not hold these truths. Love of country, belief in something larger then self, honesty integrity, trust, are all just words to some, that mean nothing. People take a lot for granted these days, and thank you, and I am sorry, are not in their vocabulary. I say this because I work closely with the public daily, and I speak from experience. It is disheartening, knowing that there are a lot of people that will not go out of their way, because of inconvenience, to help someone in need. One of the last bastions of hope, is the DoJo. Any DoJo worth their salt is teaching the above right along with there curriculum. Some have said that it isn’t the job of the DoJo to teach anything but self defense, but I say they are wrong.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think everybody decides for themselves what their role in life is, and what they are willing to do for themselves, and for others.

I can understand the exasperation one feels when talking to a person who says they would never stand up to defend another from violence. It is perplexing when one meets someone who says they won't stand up to defend themselves.

On the other hand, I meet an awful lot of people my own age who, upon finding out I am a veteran, say "Yeah, I was gonna..." or "I wish I had..." or "Man, that's just something I'd never consider doing..." or "If there was another just war, like WWII, I'd be on the front lines with 'em..." or etc. Yeah, well, woulda, coulda, shoulda. You didn't serve. Live with that.

Some people won't stand up to defend others, or themselves, or even their own country. How can you figure that? I guess everyone makes their own decisions and lives with the consequences of their actions or lack of same.

 

[sgtmac_46]

RANT!

My teacher was doing some self-defense seminars for a local high school, which he has been doing for years. But for the first time he enocuntered a group of people who he had never met before.

Normally he tries to get people into the sruvivor mindset like this:
"Imagine a 300 pound hell's angel biker with scras and tatoos all over his face is threatening you. Who wants to rush in and fight with him?"

no one raises their hands

"now imagine that 300 pund man is pounding the person you love most in the face over and over again and then decides he's going to have his way and begins taking his pants off. Who's fighting now?"

almost everyone raises their hands...usually until this day.

Normally my teacher does this to get peole out of victim mentality and get around the fear of injury in order for them to gain the mindset that it is okay to fight back, but this time about 20 people out of 250 said that no matter what they would not jump in to fight off an attacker who was murdering their loved ones.

WHAT!?
They said they didn't want to put themselves at risk and wouldn';t want others to place themselves in danger for another's sake. It makes no sense! I gaurantee that if any of these peope where to face a life threatening situation they would pray with all their might that someone would assit them.

Have any of you met people like this? How can anyone think this way. It's so baffling!

Some folks are too domesticated for their own good.

If it were just themselves they effected, however, it wouldn't be an issue.....but these folks also vote based on this mentality, and thereby pick representatives to our government who are charged with the protection of this country and our way of life who likewise share their mentality.

Is it any surprise when groups of them show up at the feet of Communist Despots, and coo and fawn like groupies?

 

[Tames D]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.

Democrats maybe

But the first word that came to my mind was cowards.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Democrats maybe

But the first word that came to my mind was cowards.

I think it goes far beyond simple cowardice........to a shared ideology that EMBRACES 'cowardice' not as a vice, but as a virtue!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I think it goes far beyond simple cowardice........to a shared ideology that EMBRACES 'cowardice' not as a vice, but as a virtue!

Just a question. Was Jesus a coward?

We who are Christians are commanded to be like Jesus. I can't do it, I'm too weak. He went freely to His death, without resistance, without violence. He even cured the Centurian who was hurt when one of His disciples tried to protect Him.

Non-violence is a virtue, according to many. It requires a discipline that is beyond my ability, that's for sure. Like you, I could not stand by and watch my loved one attacked and do nothing. And perhaps many who would not offer resistance are indeed afraid for their own well-being only. Perhaps not. I don't know. I don't know if I am qualified to judge.

 

[Sukerkin]

Now that's a frightening thought, gentlemen :shudders:.

The only difference between a coward and a hero is that one of them refuses to be ruled by their fear.

I think tho' that Mac was closer to the mark when he mentioned over domestication as being the root of the problem. The past few generations have been smacked over the head with a constant drum-beat of "Tho' shall not fight under any circumstances. Defending yourself is not your right or your responsibility!".

Couple that with a few horror stories about what happened to people who did defend themselves and the insidious message really digs in. Such are the depths this pass can get to that you end up with that despicable circumstance in one of the 'school shootings' where people just let themselves be shot!

 

[blindsage]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.

No, they're called Republicans whent the victims are minorities.











Oh, wait, you say you don't like assinine stereotypes?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The only difference between a coward and a hero is that one of them refuses to be ruled by their fear.

Which one would that be?

Supposedly, just about everyone can feel fear. And fear is known to be an instinct in animals - it provokes a 'fight or flight' reaction. Some humans exhibit similar traits.

So the thought occurs to me that if my fear prompts me to fight, and I do, I'm 'ruled by my fear'. Yes? Same if my fear prompts me to run away and I do that instead. So what is the difference?

 

[Tez3]

RANT!

My teacher was doing some self-defense seminars for a local high school, which he has been doing for years. But for the first time he enocuntered a group of people who he had never met before.

Normally he tries to get people into the sruvivor mindset like this:
"Imagine a 300 pound hell's angel biker with scras and tatoos all over his face is threatening you. Who wants to rush in and fight with him?"

no one raises their hands

"now imagine that 300 pund man is pounding the person you love most in the face over and over again and then decides he's going to have his way and begins taking his pants off. Who's fighting now?"

almost everyone raises their hands...usually until this day.

Normally my teacher does this to get peole out of victim mentality and get around the fear of injury in order for them to gain the mindset that it is okay to fight back, but this time about 20 people out of 250 said that no matter what they would not jump in to fight off an attacker who was murdering their loved ones.

WHAT!?
They said they didn't want to put themselves at risk and wouldn';t want others to place themselves in danger for another's sake. It makes no sense! I gaurantee that if any of these peope where to face a life threatening situation they would pray with all their might that someone would assit them.

Have any of you met people like this? How can anyone think this way. It's so baffling!

I suppose you haven't all over reacted and the truth is there was a bunch of kids there who didn't want to be and weren't going to put their hands up for anything and were going to say anything to annoy the instructor?
Or perhaps they didn't feel they fit into the 'victim' mindset the instructor obviously thought they fitted into and thought they'd ruin his patter.

I would suggest that if 20 people had decided to say this there's more to this than just they don't want to defend their loved ones, I'd say that for whatever reason they wanted to go against what the group were saying. this probably indicates they didn't want to be there.

My shift partners and I were on a first aid course run by a patronising git who talked down to us at every turn so we said we'd leave people to bleed to death and we'd never do CPR etc just to annoy him. When asked what we'd do with someone with a suspected broken leg we said give him a kick to see if it was. The whole class joined in. Childish maybe but he was seriously insulting our intelligence and experience.

Before getting up in arms have a think about why people would say things in a seminar, especially so many people, before deciding they must be cowards etc. I think you'll find there's a much more prosaic reason than that.

 

[Gordon Nore]

In this country they are called Hippies.

Or Democrats.

Your choice.

Or Buddhists or Quakers or Amish?

 

[Carol]

To get honest input from high schoolers, get them talking in a small group, not an auditorium-sized crowd of 250. I bet dollars-to-doughnuts some of the kids that were saying they wouldn't help anyone under any circumstances were posturing in some way...ya know, like teenagers do sometimes.