Eye jabs - an evil move?

MJS

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thescottishdude said:
I'd call blinding someone a serious moral dillema, its certinly not trivial.

essentially, you're taking away their oppertunity to move on from the situation and put it behind them.

doing that to someone in a simple fist fight is not excusable.

I think that you need to go back and re-read all of the posts from the beginning. I have not seen anyone advocate using them unless the situation warranted it. A simple fight, no I would not use an eye jab. A life and death situation, absolutely!

Again, please go and re-read the threads.

Mike
 

Robert Lee

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If and when you fight you have a choice of what you need or may have to do. Eye pokes rakes gouges are are part of training. And should be used as needed. Not to just put an eye out A flick to the eye will cause it to sting and water reducing the vision and that will not cause as much harm to a eye. But can help lead to a finish or escape which agin is your choice. Now to take a eye. And the person files charges you will be going to court and if proved you were not in impending danger that would call for exsessive force you would be charged and have to pay out probaly a large settlement. So flicks rakes would be a first option. Now relize this gives the other person the idea to do the same to you. Any fight what is done by you is your choice of action. So be wise on needs.
 

still learning

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Hello, Not all "EYE" attacks leads to permament blindness...so do throat strikes do not lead to permamet damages, and knees strikes leads to permament knees damages... and so on.

If you can temporany blind a person with a rip,poke..or throw sand,dirt,purse, into your eyes...doing this is smart and to your advantage....not evil? Especially if you are only trying to defend yourself from the attacker.

To gouge someone eyes out...Um? it maybe the only way to save your life...(remember ANYONE CAN DO THIS) no special training,extra strenght needed, or special skills...just the determintion to do it. (especially if the other person is over powering and brutal....(rape situtions,aductions),and so on...

Do you know most of the lethal strikes to end a fight quickly? not only there life..but limbs too...? all can be consider evil?

Training to fight is not a playful tool...it is not a game... people lives are at risk....if attack by a street fighter/gang..it is KILL or BE KILLED...

This was told to me along ago from my Sensi: ..."When two Black belts fight(each know each other ranks)...this means both know how to KILL."."the fight will not be nice....you fight to KILL." ..".because he knows this too...."

If you still believe "eye" attacks are evil and not to be use? ...Wake-up..and SEE what others do...SEE for yourself...One day you may SEE yourself using this "eye" attacks....? C..C..C...than you make the other guy not C and C..two I's here....(two eye's)...be SEEing you...Aloha
 

Ric Flair

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In a life and death situation (say in a secluded alley with more than 2 guys or in a sexual assault situation)

If your attacker is bigger than you, stronger than you, and even faster
than you... and all the hits you do to his body and face do not amount to much, and the nuts and throat are not available...

and the only thing you feel open are his eyes, why not?! Go for it! I'm sure in that situation you would not be acting like Mr. Rogers and being ultra considerate for the person(s) trying to take your life away.

If you are trained and conditioned properly, you most likely will not even have a second thought since your body will be the thing thats talking for you.
 

KenpoTex

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thescottishdude said:
I'd call blinding someone a serious moral dillema, its certinly not trivial.

essentially, you're taking away their oppertunity to move on from the situation and put it behind them.

doing that to someone in a simple fist fight is not excusable.
First, as others have said several times in this thread, we're NOT talking about a "simple fist fight." We're talking about a survival situation. Second, if I reach the point where I feel that it's necessary to use methods that are considered "deadly force" techniques (attacking the eyes, throat, joints, etc.) it's either going to be in conjunction with, or because I can't at that moment access one of my weapons. Chances of the guy "moving on and putting the situation behind them" are not very good at this point.

Because of your insistence on going back to the "simple fight" thing, I'm begining to think that you must get into a lot of fights. Either that or you just don't understand the distinction between a fight and a self-defense situation.
 

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Ric Flair said:

Given your user name, I would think that you would be entirely in favor of eye pokes! :)
 

rompida

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Hmmm.........first thing I have to ask is why is a martial artist (or anyone for that matter) getting into an "ego fight" in the first place? Sounds like insecurity to me. I take the moral high ground by walking away and avoiding a physical confrontation when possible.

Beyond that.... eyes are fair game for me. Its one of the first things I teach to adults in SD classes. A person who is being attacked, and is not in an ego fight should use the force necessary to remove themselves from danger. Would a light eye jab do that? I think so, it is a nice setup for a punch, throw, kick, or just turning to run away. If being raped, I tell the women to pull his damn eyes out of his head. How do you know a rapist won't try to kill you when he's done? Sorry if this rings your moral high ground bell, but I also teach throat jabs/punches, groin kicks/grabs, and throwing chairs. When you start fighting fair you have started losing.

I think Hock says it best..."Cheat in the beginning, cheat in the end, and cheat in the middle".
 

Henderson

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I think I agree with the general concensus on this one.

Eye gouges are very effective, and a last resort tactic.
 

still learning

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Hello, Base on the posts above: The "EYES" have it..

For removal: only one is needed

For protection: cover each eye with each hand, or one arm
-----------------
A man selling a horse "This horse NO look to good" the other guy says.."this horse is blind" ...the man says..I told you "this horse no look to good"
----------------

This forums is about sharing knowledge, exchanging opinions and thoughts, each of us will form his own ideas of right and wrong,good or bad and so on. Evil is a bad word in my book...there are lots of evil people around us all the time...good to close the book on them....Aloha
 

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thescottishdude said:
I'd call blinding someone a serious moral dillema, its certinly not trivial.

essentially, you're taking away their oppertunity to move on from the situation and put it behind them.

doing that to someone in a simple fist fight is not excusable.

How are you/ I supposed to know that a "simple fist fight" will stay that way? How do you know that the individual will not turn into 2 or 3 that will have to be dealt with.

I've read/ heard about people being killed or become brain damaged because they were punched, fell and hit their noggin on cement/ tarmac/ rock/ car bumper.

End if fast - THEY, not you, THEY started the issue.
 

akatrk

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In my opinion, you should never use eye jabs, EVER! They're completely evil. You've taken a fist fight and elevated it to a point where you and your competitor and now liable to blind each other and cause massive damage for life. Whereas before the loser would just get a few bruises and abit of a kicking.

I do understand your dilemma in using a finger jab to the eyes. Unfortunately, we are living in a world where fighting fair is a thing of the past. I once witnessed a fight between two women where one woman took the other woman's face and started scraping it against the concrete like a cheese grater.


If given the choice of using an eye jab and leaving the scene or not using it and taking a chance of getting hurt, self-preservation wins.
 

tshadowchaser

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life and death or my going to the hospital from multiple armed attackers yep i'll use them. Getting beaten in a one on one no I'll lose or win without them
 
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thescottishdude

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I'm laughing my *** off at a comment I got in my reutation bar about this thread :D

"Quite the most naieve thread I've ever read"

Well, I guess I have a little more faith in people than that guy obviously does. He's being very naieve calling someone who he's neever met naieve :D Ironic? ha ha ha
 

Kensai

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thescottishdude said:
I noticed that alot of martial artists must not have any principles when it comes to learning and using eye jabs.

In my opinion, you should never use eye jabs, EVER! They're completely evil. You've taken a fist fight and elevated it to a point where you and your competitor and now liable to blind each other and cause massive damage for life. Whereas before the loser would just get a few bruises and abit of a kicking.

I'm not against the teaching of them, as they are a part of martial arts. I just don't think anyone should condone or hype up their use in fights (unlike the last martial arts nesletter I just read).

Anyone else agree? Surely you should never do something like that in a fist fight unless your attacker has a kinfe or a gun and you get an oppertunity?

I agree. To an extent. Obviously circumstances would dictate the response, if it was a "Queensbury rules" brawl, then yeah, gouging the other guys eyes out is harsh, however, if weapons are involved, or someone greatly stronger than you, and you feel as though your life is on the line, if it's my life, or his eyes, sorry mate, but he's gonna be needing a trip to the opticians.
 

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Eye jabs are no more evil than the intent of the assailant initiating the confrontation. Jabbing the eyes of a "COMPETITOR" is evil no matter what the sporting competition. Someone breaking into your home is no FIST FIGHT. Eye jabs, "DON'T START NONE, WON'T BE NONE!"
 

Ric Flair

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Though the Nature Boy is not technically the best skilled fighter around, I'd have to say he was one of the most clever "wrestler'" in entertainment wrestling. THis man had it all, eye pokes/rakes, ball punches, slaps, etc lol :)

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
 

Marginal

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still learning said:
If going for the eye attacks is evil? What is not consider evil?

You're right. Best to carry a gun and shoot anyone who bumps into you. Anything less decays into a morass of situational relativism. If you're not willing to shoot someone in the head for a dirty look, then you're not willing to do anything at all. Ever.
 

still learning

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Marginal said:
You're right. Best to carry a gun and shoot anyone who bumps into you. Anything less decays into a morass of situational relativism. If you're not willing to shoot someone in the head for a dirty look, then you're not willing to do anything at all. Ever.

Hello, Good idea..the world is too crowded....this may help....

In the martial arts...your judgement of the use of techniques to use..will be your choice to end the confrontations/the fight.

We are taught several levels of use: Not to hurt,but stop or end the fight quickly, two may need more damages (vitals)to attacker, three take it all the way (kill). In our Kempo - escape,control,or destroy methods is the terms we use to discribe the degrees of attack. Some people may need more than others here....

Eye attacks...do work..it will not blind you..just the other guy for awhile...same as striking to body...intent is not to kill? ..just hurt them..

rakes,poke, is one thing...gouges/takeing the eye out..something else here?

I heard stories of American soldiers(Vietnam) who capture the "enemy" and would remove one eye to make them talk...Use thumb scoop from nose side,dig and pull out. Most do talk after this...if they do not..then removing the other eye will not work.

On the human body...taking their eyes out of the fight...(rakes,pokes)...will give you more advantages than any other part...most people will see this ......Aloha
 
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