Eye jabs - an evil move?

thescottishdude

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I noticed that alot of martial artists must not have any principles when it comes to learning and using eye jabs.

In my opinion, you should never use eye jabs, EVER! They're completely evil. You've taken a fist fight and elevated it to a point where you and your competitor and now liable to blind each other and cause massive damage for life. Whereas before the loser would just get a few bruises and abit of a kicking.

I'm not against the teaching of them, as they are a part of martial arts. I just don't think anyone should condone or hype up their use in fights (unlike the last martial arts nesletter I just read).

Anyone else agree? Surely you should never do something like that in a fist fight unless your attacker has a kinfe or a gun and you get an oppertunity?
 

beau_safken

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Try all the eye jabs you want on me...Defense is easy. Extend hand in front of face... Learned it from the 3 stooges bud.

There is one move called opening the gate.... Stick finger in eye, hook and pull the eye out. As its dangling on the cheek little slap on the face to complete the opening of the gate.

Not cool in sparring but you dont go into battle with a wiffle ball bat.... Good to know but not really all the useful in a general sense.
 

Sam

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It depends on the situation. If someone is trying to rape me they will be lucky if the worst that happens to them is I shove my thumbs into their eyes.

I would be dissapointed in myself if such a man could ever walk properly or reproduce again.
 

scottcatchot

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I feel in a real self defense situation I see no problem using an eye jab. It is an effect move that greatly distracts the opponent and makes an opening for a straight blast, takedown, many possibilities. As for the moral delima of blinding someone. Since I don't go looking for trouible and the situation I would be using it in is self preservation, Thats what the attacker gets for messing with me. I don't emphasis continuing to beat on the guy needlessly, but do what ever it takes. I especially am fond of a nice nuckle jab to the throat as opposed to the eye jab, but then that has its own implications.
 

RoninPimp

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For an ego driven mutual fist fight? Way over the top. Fighting for your life? Fair tactic imo.
 

Andrew Green

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I tend to agree, many martial artists seem to quick to want to resort to escalating. If someone is punching me, I'll punch back. If they are winning I'll get beat up, if I am winning I'll get less beat up.

But if they are winning and I escalate things, I imagine I will end up in worse shape.

Of course if they escalate things to that level it is a different matter.
 
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thescottishdude

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I agree with using them in situations like that, rape or an armed aggressor. But what I'm getting at is the way alot of instructors make students practise them so they can be used in real fights. i think its something you should know about but never use.

If you're in a rape situation then if you've been trained right you shouldn't think about using eye jabs you'd have a good enough self defense moves anyway.

Sometimes you've got to take the moral high ground and be the better person.
 

Flying Crane

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thescottishdude said:
You've taken a fist fight and elevated it to a point where you and your competitor and now liable to blind each other and cause massive damage for life. Whereas before the loser would just get a few bruises and abit of a kicking.

Surely you should never do something like that in a fist fight unless your attacker has a kinfe or a gun and you get an oppertunity?

I think you just answered your own question. Eye jabs are extreme techniques, meant only for extreme circumstances.

Getting bullied in a bar? Eye strikes are not the answer.

Getting assualted with a weapon, getting raped, getting the life beaten out of you? Eye jabs might be appropriate.
 

Sam

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is a rape situation not a "real" fight?
I think eye jabs is a perfectly fine self defense move.
 

Flying Crane

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thescottishdude said:
If you're in a rape situation then if you've been trained right you shouldn't think about using eye jabs you'd have a good enough self defense moves anyway.

Sometimes you've got to take the moral high ground and be the better person.

A rape situation is not the time or place to take the moral high ground. If you are being raped, anything and everything is fair game. If you've been trained right, then you know that if you are being raped, eye gouges are good self defense moves.
 
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thescottishdude

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I still don't think you should be extensivlytrained in them, yes yo should know what they are and how to use them but they shouldn't really be taught as moves you'd likly use.

punching, kicking, wrestling, arm locks etc are more than effective in a rape situation or any fight really.
 

scottcatchot

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thescottishdude said:
Sometimes you've got to take the moral high ground and be the better person.

There is nothing immoral about defending yourself. I do understand what you are saying in regards to escalating. By law it must be taken into consideration of what is reasonable force. Basically do what you must to stop the attack, once it is stopped or you can get away, then do not continue to fight. I personally think techniques are just techniques, neither moral or immoral but the context in which they are used determines the morality of having used the technique
 

DavidCC

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RoninPimp said:
For an ego driven mutual fist fight? Way over the top. Fighting for your life? Fair tactic imo.

OMG I actually agree with RoninPimp.

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day" LOL :p
 

Flatlander

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If you're getting into fist fights and using martial art skills, you've already gotten yourself into a moral dilemma. We're I your teacher, I'd kick you out of class. There is no place in an ego driven fist fight for a martial art student. If you can't keep your ego in check, you've got some growing up to do before your training should commence.

That's the stance I'm taking on the subject.

From my point of view, the eye jab is just another tool, to be used if the situation presents itself.
 

scottcatchot

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punching, kicking, wrestling, arm locks etc are more than effective in a rape situation or any fight really.[/quote]

What if the person is armed and you are not, what if you are convinced the person is trying to kill you? I just don't think you should label a technique as bad or immoral or to elliminate it from being when there may come a time it is your best way to survive. It is impossible to know what every possible situation could bring to generalize and say that the above are MORE than effective in any fight
 
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thescottishdude

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hey, I'm glad I started such a decent thread here :)

I just got annoyed at what I was readin on the net with alot of martial artists talking about how to imporve your eye jabs and how best to damage your opponents.
 

still learning

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Hello, Anytime you hit someone...this can be an evil move. Some techniques are more hurtful than others.

The eyes are one of the most effective techniques to end a fight and to escape. Raking the eyes will not cause long lasting damages. Eye gouges...Um?...could be it the cords are rip out too.

It is possible to thumb someone eyes out and put it back in....most times it will work again.

If you are not training for this,rip,gouge...too bad...cause lots of other people do train for this!

Every year people are kill just by being push down. (end up hitting their heads on the pavement,curves,or corner of something)....is this evil too "the push"

What about thoat strikes...is this bad too....?

If you find eye strikes evil? ...you are in the wrong business here...real fighting is anything goes, none stop hitting, weapons,stones and anything goes,kinves,guns,pipes can be use.....against you....

Depending on the sitution..will depend on what you need to do to end the confrontations. NO Rules in street fights...fight back or get the hell kick out of you (could happen anyway if you fight back).

Striking the eyes...one of the most effective techniques to use!!! ...All those in flavor say: EYE! .......Aloha
 

still learning

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thescottishdude said:
I still don't think you should be extensivlytrained in them, yes yo should know what they are and how to use them but they shouldn't really be taught as moves you'd likly use.

punching, kicking, wrestling, arm locks etc are more than effective in a rape situation or any fight really.

If you do not practice them(eye strikes)...then you will not remember them...or use them...and when the time comes to save your life? TOO LATE! In our Kempo techniques, almost all our attacks involves eye rips/strikes/pokes...somewhere in the process of striking you...!

Remember this: NO matter how big or strong the attacter is? or arm w/ weapons...if you are in reach...ripping, poking the eyes do not require strenght,lots of practice, or be Black belt to use it! (ANYONE CAN DO THIS)

When someone attack you (they are the evil ones)....eye strikes..is letting the other person see you in a different way....Aloha
 

still learning

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Hello, Groin strikes...now this is evil? .....owwooo..! Your eyes go cuckoo, body drops, defendless, and PAIN! ....name me another place that hurt this much like a groin strike? ....Aloha
 

Darksoul

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Well, as a former Mantis student, I'm aware of some of the techniques in the style that are meant to do serious damage, eye jabs the least among them. Why are they there? As a martial art, Mantis is about defeating your opponent, though in the past that would have likely meant life or death situation. Which is my point; it depends on the situation. If you want to live and/or survive a situation, you'll do what is necessary. Of course, if you're trained enough to avoid such moves and can subdue your opponent without serious injury, than you should proceed in said manner.

A---)
 
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