Daughter murdered for embracing the west

[Sukerkin]

I'd imagine they'd feel pretty hard-done-by, Blade.

Pretty helpless to fix things too I would imagine as they have little power to gainsay the extremists who have hi-jacked a fundamentally 'true' (as in based on their scriptures) interpretation of their religion and turned it into something foul.

I can envisage an early medieval analogue of someone like Bill, who I believe to have a very genuine sense of morality, being caught in the same sort of cleft stick when the Church was running about slaughtering in the name of God (aka plunder and prestige).

 

[CanuckMA]

Honour killing is not a Muslim thing. It's cultural. Hindus do it as well. Most cultures have done it.

 

[Twin Fist]

That makes no sense. You admit I am correct - the percentages are minute. Then you say you can 'connect the dots' by which you mean that despite the fact that it's not all Muslims...yes, it actually is.

Can't be both.

I get that you don't care. But I think your 'connecting the dots' has a different meaning than you think it does. I care about that. Even if you don't.

Bill,
the chances of getting bit by a shark are minute too. But I dont swim in waters I know have a local population of dangerous species.

the dots?

more and more muslims

muslims are by and large NOT assimilating

muslims are ok with honor killings

muslims are trying to get sharia law recognized by american courts

once it is, muslim men can freely rape and kill, and claim that the victim was asking for it by dressing in an un-muslim way

dont think it could happen? it already is, in france and england and other european countries

The only ones that dont see this comming either dont want to see it or are totally un-educated on recent european history

 

[Twin Fist]

Honour killing is not a Muslim thing. It's cultural. Hindus do it as well. Most cultures have done it.

and the "moral relativism" card comes into play


you cannot justify bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior,a nd yes, it IS a muslim thing

 

[marlon]

How do you know who is denouncing and who is not? Do you live in Italy? Do you live in the Middle East? Do you listen to the sermons by the Mullahs and other Islamic leaders?

What you know is what you read.

Just like the people in the Middle East who think we all hate them. Because it's what they read.

Your 'problem' does not exist.

I read as much as I can in these cases. Just as I had a problem with the relative silence of the Catholics and their clergy the same goes in this case. there should be a lot of noise against this stuff. Just as there should be a lot of noise against pedophiles and abusive spouses and instructors taking advantage of students. Thisis not about who did it. It is about the act and that somewhere it is considered acceptable by a large group of people. I don't think except for the pertatrators themselves there is anyone who finds that martial arts instructors sexually abusing their students acceptable...

 

[Blade96]

I'd imagine they'd feel pretty hard-done-by, Blade.

Pretty helpless to fix things too I would imagine as they have little power to gainsay the extremists who have hi-jacked a fundamentally 'true' (as in based on their scriptures) interpretation of their religion and turned it into something foul.

I can envisage an early medieval analogue of someone like Bill, who I believe to have a very genuine sense of morality, being caught in the same sort of cleft stick when the Church was running about slaughtering in the name of God (aka plunder and prestige).

Yeah. Poor Bill M. He's a Catholic. I know he don't agree with everything the church and pope says and does. And he's a good person. And if people said 'I don't trust catholics, any of em!' because of the sexism and pedophiles and killing and all, I imagine he'd feel pretty crappy.

 

[Twin Fist]

and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions

and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....

seriously

the whole kit and kaboodle needs to be erased from the earth

 

[marlon]

Bill, I had no idea you are Catholic. I just picked that randomly becausee it is a Christian issue as apposed to a Muslim issue. I have a greatr deal of respect for other people's religions and culture but not above and beyond my belief that life is sacred. No hidden attack intended

Respectfully,
Marlon

 

[Sukerkin]

I understand the root of your emotions, John but, as ever with such things, we must take care not to become worse than what we hate in our reactions.

Not allowing such things as 'honour killings' (tho' it makes me spit to use the word Honour in such a context) to take root in our societies is one thing, as is strongly rebuffing any claims to legitimacy on the world stage that factional extremists may claim. But wishing to ignite a religious based war in this day and age is a very dangerous path to set your feet upon.

 

[Twin Fist]

Mark
Islam is a cult of death founded by a child molesting warlord that preached conversion by force, and his church is turning out fanatics trying to force a 6th century world on us BY FORCE, in numbers that should scare any thinking person.

I know exactly what I am saying, and let me say it again

I do not believe that Islam is compatible with life in the modern world.

 

[Blade96]

I had a good friend who died of cancer when we were both 15. His parents were jehovah witnesses who let him die cause they refused to try the blood transfusion to save him. But i don't believe every jehovah witness is gonna let their children die even though the religion might say getting blood is bad i don;t believe all of em believe it. I can't stand what that religion says. But i don't believe that they all can't be trusted. Same with muslims.

 

[marlon]

and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions

and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....

seriously

the whole kit and kaboodle needs to be erased from the earth

Investigate sources, please. That is complete crap and is no way shape or form part of Islam.Please remember the scary Christian sects that have existed over time even in our society.

 

[Sukerkin]

Mark

I do not believe that Islam is compatible with life in the modern world.

In terms of the radical elements that have seized power in certain states and maintain it through intimidation and violence, I don't disagree.

I feel much the same about any religious based power structure, though the Christian one is 'native' to me and thus more easily understood and, to be honest, is less likely these days to kill and torture people just for not believing.

Where the 'Gordian knot' lies is that exhorting the removal by force of arms those centres of the twisted radicalism of the islamic faith brings into play all those hundreds of millions of people born into a Islamic tradition.

To illustrate what I mean, I am by no means one to stand on the side of the Catholic Church, for example. But if an Islamic sect were to murder the Pope or nuke the Vatican City State, then I, even tho' I am Atheist, would be outraged and would not vote against a counter-attack. I am sure that many of the Muslim faothful throughout the globe would feel the same way should some similar thing befall an Islamic state somewhere in the world.

That way lies World War Three and a fall back into barbarism for us all {things already hanging by a thread as they are}.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Bill,
the chances of getting bit by a shark are minute too. But I dont swim in waters I know have a local population of dangerous species.

the dots?

more and more muslims

OK so far...

muslims are by and large NOT assimilating

A) I disagree. B) I've pointed out many instances of cultures inside the USA that do not assimilate, and we don't have a problem with them any more than they have a problem with us (such as Amish). So it's apparently not 'assimilation' that is the problem.

muslims are ok with honor killings

That's a lie. You know it's a lie. In the USA, it amounts to 6 known honor killings out of a population that is - at a minimum - over a million. How does that equate with Muslims being OK with honor killings?

muslims are trying to get sharia law recognized by american courts

Also a lie. Some few Muslims have put forward the notion that they would prefer Sharia Law over the Constitution; obviously they can't do that. Some few others have tried to get civil courts to recognize Sharia Law as binding in civil contracts in which both parties have agreed to abide by the principles; just as the courts now recognize Jewish Law and Catholic Canon Law. There is no difference at all.

once it is, muslim men can freely rape and kill, and claim that the victim was asking for it by dressing in an un-muslim way

Oh, please.

dont think it could happen? it already is, in france and england and other european countries

No, it isn't.

The only ones that dont see this comming either dont want to see it or are totally un-educated on recent european history

I'll put some faith in both my education, my knowledge of history, and my own native intellect. Hasn't steered me wrong so far.

 

[granfire]

OK so far...



A) I disagree. B) I've pointed out many instances of cultures inside the USA that do not assimilate, and we don't have a problem with them any more than they have a problem with us (such as Amish). So it's apparently not 'assimilation' that is the problem.



That's a lie. You know it's a lie. In the USA, it amounts to 6 known honor killings out of a population that is - at a minimum - over a million. How does that equate with Muslims being OK with honor killings?



Also a lie. Some few Muslims have put forward the notion that they would prefer Sharia Law over the Constitution; obviously they can't do that. Some few others have tried to get civil courts to recognize Sharia Law as binding in civil contracts in which both parties have agreed to abide by the principles; just as the courts now recognize Jewish Law and Catholic Canon Law. There is no difference at all.



Oh, please.



No, it isn't.



I'll put some faith in both my education, my knowledge of history, and my own native intellect. Hasn't steered me wrong so far.

Bless you for trying!

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I read as much as I can in these cases. Just as I had a problem with the relative silence of the Catholics and their clergy the same goes in this case. there should be a lot of noise against this stuff. Just as there should be a lot of noise against pedophiles and abusive spouses and instructors taking advantage of students. Thisis not about who did it. It is about the act and that somewhere it is considered acceptable by a large group of people. I don't think except for the pertatrators themselves there is anyone who finds that martial arts instructors sexually abusing their students acceptable...

Again, you can't read what isn't printed in English or other languages you may read, or which isn't printed where you live. You don't live in those cultures. You have no idea what they denounce or celebrate. You only know, as you said, what you read. Not what you don't read because you can't access it.

So you have no idea who denounces what. Just like the average man on the street in downtown Baghdad has little idea what the average American denounces or celebrates.

Think about it. You don't know what 'they' denounce because you have no access to 'their' means of communication. Neither do I, but I recognize that power of making other people somehow supposedly privy to the same information we have, and we have access to everything they say and do - we don't, it's just a convenient assumption.

 

[Touch Of Death]

and he could leave the faith if the faith supports such actions

and islam DOES. They just released a report talking about how, in detail, a man could 'take his pleasure" with a boy and it NOT be a sin....

seriously

the whole kit and kaboodle needs to be erased from the earth

You do know that protestant ministers end up sleeping with members of their church all the time. Are you suggesting we eliminate Christianity?
Sean

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Yeah. Poor Bill M. He's a Catholic. I know he don't agree with everything the church and pope says and does. And he's a good person. And if people said 'I don't trust catholics, any of em!' because of the sexism and pedophiles and killing and all, I imagine he'd feel pretty crappy.

I'd understand it; but I'd be pretty ticked off by people who insist "WHY DON'T THEY DENOUNCE IT! THEY DON'T DENOUNCE IT! THEY MUST LOVE IT!" I denounce it. You've all seen me do it. But nobody puts me on TV or writes about me in the newspaper, do they? Yet if you went by TV and newspapers, nobody is denouncing the evil that some Catholic priests do and have done, or the evil coverups that the Church has engaged in.

I have no problem with the RCC being called to account for what it's done. I resent the hell out of the assertion that I and my fellow Catholics don't denounce it. Just because the guy watching the news on his couch doesn't hear me doing it does not mean it doesn't happen.

And the average Muslim who hates the idea of honor killings? Same thing.

But bigots will believe what they want. Haters will find reasons to hate. There's no cure for that kind of sickness.

Know this - if forced to choose sides between haters, I won't make the choice people might like me to make.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Mark
Islam is a cult of death founded by a child molesting warlord that preached conversion by force, and his church is turning out fanatics trying to force a 6th century world on us BY FORCE, in numbers that should scare any thinking person.

I know exactly what I am saying, and let me say it again

I do not believe that Islam is compatible with life in the modern world.

I think you're a deluded, sick man and in need of help.

 

[Twin Fist]

******** Marlon

http://www.uncoverage.net/2010/03/the-ayatollah-khomeinis-booksex-with-children-and-animals/

A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate vaginally, but sodomising the child is acceptable. If a man does penetrate and damage the child then, he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl will not count as one of his four permanent wives and the man will not be eligible to marry the girl’s sister… It is better for a girl to marry at such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband’s house, rather than her father’s home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. ["Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth edition, Qom, Iran, 1990]





Wanna re-think that? An AYATOLLAH,, not some quack who starts his own church, an AYATOLLAH. Apparently it IS a part of islam.

Investigate sources, please. That is complete crap and is no way shape or form part of Islam.Please remember the scary Christian sects that have existed over time even in our society.