Bullying

[cali_tkdbruin]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-*** guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

 

[Jonathan Randall]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-*** guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

She did the right thing. The tactic for her and you now should be to AVOID and DOCUMENT. Avoid the other student and document (in Writing) any problems. If necessary, go to the school after any incident, no matter how minor, and talk to the staff about keeping your daughter and this girl separated. Also, counsel your daughter on any steps she could take to defuse the situation. Of course this may not be possible. Unfortunately, many school administrators are more concerned with protecting themselves legally than they are with the student's problems so you may have to keep on them until they realize that it is in THEIR best interests to keep your daughter both safe and unharassed. What if she does fight this girl and wins? That may only be the beginning of her problems.

 

[MJS]

My teenage daughter, has been training in the MAs for several years now. Recently, she's come in conflict with another girl at her high school over some punk-*** guy. The other girl doesn't know that my daughter is a martial artist, and that she can defend herself if needed, especially if the other kid is her same size. I've seen my girl in action many times in the dojang.

Anyway, today the other girl rushed my daughter, but my daughter's friends' stepped in and stopped any scraps. My daughter reported the incident to the school administration and everyone was put on check, and told there would be suspensions, and students would be expelled if this escallated.

I told her she did the right thing by not retaliating, and by reporting the incident and having the dean put everything on the record. However, I also told her that she has the right to defend herself, and if this occurs again then she has my permission to do what she has to do to protect herself.

When I was going to high school, I was attending simply just to learn and to get ready for college, I never had to deal with someone bullying me. What would you do if you were in my situation? Am I right to say all bets are off, and just be safe and defend yourself? If you're in school nobody should have to fight. You're there just to learn. :asian:

Your daughter did the right thing. People should be going to school to learn and get an education, not have to worry about defending themselves in the halls in-between classes. Any future incidents should also be brought to their attention.

I agree with you though, she has the right to defend herself. I would be cautious as to what she does though. In other words, she should do what she needs to, and no more.

I'm not familiar with the policies at the school, so you of course would be able to answer this question the best. Assuming that another incident happens, does your daughter also face the possibility of suspension if she defends herself? Afterall, she was not the aggressor, but simply defending herself.

Mike

 

[Gemini]

I'm not familiar with the policies at the school, so you of course would be able to answer this question the best. Assuming that another incident happens, does your daughter also face the possibility of suspension if she defends herself? Afterall, she was not the aggressor, but simply defending herself.

Mike

My understanding in most schools now is, everyone gets suspended and they'll sort out the mess later. The fact that it was documented is huge. Any confrontation that can be avoided should be. Besides, the other girl doesn't know your daughter is a MAist. Does your daughter know if the other girl is? Your daughter (and her friends) did the right thing.

 

[oldnewbie]

I recently went through a similar situation and gave my son (also a MA) the following guidelines....

Verbal abuse - walk away, and document.

Physical contact - in any form of aggression - all bets are off. He is to do what he feels is necessary to defend himself. I will stand behind him and defend him to the school.

But this also requires him to understand that the he will have to deal with the response form the school. It's really that simple. If he is suspended, he will stay home.

Once he understood, he decided to explain this to the "other guy". Basically that ended the problem.

This kind of stuff happens in all schools, at all ages. More in some and less in others. School is a place of learning. Book learning, social learning, relationship learning, and unfortunatly conflict response learning.


She and you did the right thing in my book, for what it's worth.

 

[Icewater]

I am not a fan of today's school policies of suspending everyone over the slightest altercation. I am also not an advocate of violence if it can be avoided. It's the damn safty-nazis that try to protect everyone from the slightest harm that bottles up this type of anger in our youth today and leads to lower self-esteem and more extreme violence.

I think overall your daughter made the right decision for this first altercation. The advice my father passed on to me with bullies was this:

"Son, I better not hear that you're starting fights as school. But if someone wants to start a fight with you, make sure you hit him hard and hit him first."

I only had to apply that lesson twice growing up. Once in middle school, then again in high school. Once the reputation was established that I would defend myself, I never had another problem.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Sounds like your daughter handled it well! Definately avoid and document and alert all authorities of the situation. You should also let your daughter know that she has a right to protect herself but that it only goes so far. Meaning if someone tries to fight with her and is punching that your daughter can only react with what would be considered reasonable under those circumstances. If the other child is striking or pushing her and your daughter were to up the ante by picking up a chair and braking it across the other girls back, then she could be in some serious trouble! I always advise kids and adults not to get into physical confrontations now a days and the reason is simply you probably will face suspensions, (if at school)
charges from the police and possibly a civil court case if the other person is hurt! I know of at least one board of education that actively calls the police for any physical confrontation and most of these end up with the students being charged by the police, ie. assault & battery! Best bet just tell your daughter to protect herself and avoid if at all possible and to also always be the one saying you don't want to fight because if other people are around it will always make you look better and potentially make any witness your witness!

Brian R. VanCise

 

[hemi]

I know I run the risk of stepping on some toes with this. But when I was in High School 89-92 I went to a small school with about 700 students 9-12th grades I may have had an exceptional experience and I know it was a few years back. But school doesn’t change some kids want to bully other kids. Back when I was in school my first two years of HS I got picked on. I was small and did not know MA, and it seemed like the UN written rule was if you could fight you were respected it not you got picked on.

By my junior year I was fed up. I had been to the principles office many times and was told the same old song and dance. Nothing ever got done so I took matters in to my own hands to ensure my safety. A piece of rubber hose will make someone think twice about jumping on the little guy.

Now fast-forward a few years my oldest daughter was having a problem on the school bus with a bigger girl. This girl would sit next to my daughter and tell her she would slap her if she didn’t give her lunch money over. So she had gone with out lunch for about a week when I found out. Needles to say I BLEW UP, I was standing in her principles office (funny but he was my principle back in the day) I went up one side and down the other and to make a long story short I reminded him of back when I was in his school had had a problem. I also reminded him that I will not hesitate to give my daughter a piece of hose to carry with her. I also against my wife’s wishes showed my daughter a few moves that would stop this girl in her tracks using an elbow to the face since she would be sitting next to my daughter.

So all I can say is Sir if your daughter is having a problem with a student wanting to jump her. Turn her loose and let her take this other student down a few pegs. She will remedy the problem with the girl that is giving her trouble and no one else will push their luck.

 

[Grenadier]

Well played.

She did the correct thing, especially since she was the first to report things. This way, nobody got hurt, and she doesn't have to lose any school time over something like this. Also, since it's been documented, she has that on her side as evidence of the other girl's mindset.

If she gets in a situation, though, where the other girl isn't going to back off, and tries to start something, then she had better fight to the best of her abilities. If that situation occurs, then everyone's going to be suspended, even if someone were just defending one's self. Get as many witness statements as possible, should that happen.

I'd much rather her appealing her suspension with an intact body, than to be "free of punishment" with broken bones and a bruised face.

 

[Grenadier]

seemed like the UN written rule was if you could fight you were respected it not you got picked on.

I'm just a few years older than you are, judging by your high school years, and can attest to that statement as well.

Back then, the vice principals of my junior and senior high schools would actually take time to investigate the matters, before passing judgement. I was rather lucky, since I know many such officials would rather suspend everyone.

My bus driver was a bit of an odd character; he only sent the loser to the principal's office...

 

[Bigshadow]

Your daughter did the right thing. I would also like to add that I tell my son that he is do what is necessary to stop any physical attack. I have taught him that it is safe to assume that someone physically attacking him intends bodily harm. He is not expected to let them hurt him. He is also to not expect that the teacher will stop the attack before there is bodily harm. Unfortunately, teachers and law enforcement are very similar, they are both reactionary. They come in to mop up after the fact and take notes and punish the guilty (in the case of school, the guilty and innocent).

He is to do what is necessary to stop the attack and report it to the teacher, even if he gets in trouble too. In today's school it isn't just fist fights anymore. I would rather him be safe and in trouble with the school than seriously injured or worse and in trouble with the school.

 

[arnisador]

She did the right thing. I would encourage her to continue to report incidents. She should know she has the right to defend herself, but also that the paperwork afterwards will be worse than the fight itself. It's best to avoid...but not give the impression of being weak and a taregt for bullying.

Does the guidance office or anyone offer mediation or similar services?

 

[chinto01]

I also agree that your daughter did the right thing. Schools where I live have a zero tolerence for bullying wether it be verbal or physical. Children today should not have to go to school and worry about being picked on or beat up. However I have informed my sons that if someone is threatening you to make the teacher aware of this at once. My wife then follows up with a call to the school to see what is going on. My sons also know that if someone is physically going to hurt them that they have the right to defend themselves to get away. It is understandable why schools are more aware and sensitive to bullying now after the Columbine incident. Wish they had been more aware sooner.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[searcher]

She did the right thing. In today's society your daughter could not be sure if the other girl had a weapon, if she is trained, or who would also jump in. This also lets the school admin know what has happened so they can be vigilant in keeping watch. This may also help others that may be getting bullied by the same person. It is much safer and show greater maturity by doing what your daughter did.

 

[jbclinic]

you and her did the right thing. as for your daughter she became a master at that point. knowing when and how are those steps we take in martial arts in becoming our own master

 

[Solidman82]

I was only in High school a few years ago and had a few run-ins with some violent buggers. I always got suspended no matter who was in the right (one time was for my own safety). Actually, the only thing that made kids leave me alone, besides my reputation as a trained killer(apparently that's what a martial artist in the 10th grade is) was that fact that I took one hell of a beating in front of everyone and came out smiling and shaking my opponents hand. It ended up protecting someone and ending a whole lot of harrassment from an entire school. It's not some much if you can fight, it's whether or not you are tough and unyeilding. In my own experience that is.

 

[Icewater]

So all I can say is Sir if your daughter is having a problem with a student wanting to jump her. Turn her loose and let her take this other student down a few pegs. She will remedy the problem with the girl that is giving her trouble and no one else will push their luck.

Can I get an amen? I think the boost in self-esteem for standing up for yourself will outweigh the suspension. I don't advocate violence, but if someone comes looking...

 

[arnisador]

That's great if it works. It's not so great if she loses--because the otehr girl is tougher/better trained/better armed than she looks, friends jump in, etc. All too often retaliation from a group of friends will come hours or days later, when one is at a disadvantage.

Then there are issues of arrest, lawsuit, suspension, etc.

Trying the peaceful way first isn't just Oriental philosophy--it's good, common sense self-defense, both for one's body and for the courtroom.

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

That's great if it works. It's not so great if she loses--because the otehr girl is tougher/better trained/better armed than she looks, friends jump in, etc. All too often retaliation from a group of friends will come hours or days later, when one is at a disadvantage.

Then there are issues of arrest, lawsuit, suspension, etc.

Trying the peaceful way first isn't just Oriental philosophy--it's good, common sense self-defense, both for one's body and for the courtroom.

Yes, that's my current dilema. What happens later on down the road if after my daughter steps up and puts the other kid in her place? What if this doesn't work and the situation escalates further either with retaliations or legal troubles?

 

[MJS]

Yes, that's my current dilema. What happens later on down the road if after my daughter steps up and puts the other kid in her place? What if this doesn't work and the situation escalates further either with retaliations or legal troubles?

No matter how big or small the issue may be, keep that paper trail going. As I said, its the schools job to provide a safe and productive learning atmosphere. If things are happening outside of school, contact the police. Your daughter shouldn't have to walk around everyday, having to look over her shoulder to see if this girl is behind her.

Mike