The Black Belt is the finish line?

[Lisa]

There is a young girl I know who is a green belt in TKD. Recently with changes in her life (university, etc.) she has been unable to continue with her TKD because of time contraints.

I had the opportunity of meeting her mom a week or so back and we started talking about Martial Arts, etc. This girl's mother is adament about her daughter continuing with her martial arts instruction because she hasn't, in her mother's words "finished" yet. When I asked what she meant by this she told me that she believes you finish what you started and to this woman the finish line was the black belt. The daughter has little desire anymore for TKD, at least not at this time and was getting visibly upset with the way her mother was referring to her as "giving it all up" and "wasting all that time"

Needless to say I was a little speechless and was biting my tongue as well. I would love to try and give this girl some sound advice and perhaps some help in dealing with her mother's perception regarding a black belt. The young lady hasn't closed the door completely at this point, my biggest fear is that she will because of her mother's insistence of it.

Words of wisdom greatly appreciated.

 

[Drac]

If the black belt is the finish line WHY are there so many 1st, 2nd, 3rd Dans who are STILL training????

 

[Lisa]

If the black belt is the finish line WHY are there so many 1st, 2nd, 3rd Dans who are STILL training????

Very true, but how do you change someone's perception?

 

[Drac]

Very true, but how do you change someone's perception?

You could pose my post as a question to the girls Mom or to the young lady???.

 

[Grenadier]

Very true, but how do you change someone's perception?

Best way: Invite them to take a free class. Also have them watch a black belt class. This way, they can see things from the inside and the outside.

Unfortunately, many folks will simply decline.

 

[Kacey]

Lisa, I had this problem as well, with a student who dropped out when he was 12. For the last year he was in my class, he only came because his parents made him - because he had set a goal when he started to reach black belt, and his parents wanted him to learn about reaching goals you set for yourself. It was a miserable year for both of us. He only put effort into things when it was a game/contest, but because he never practiced, he always lost, and when he lost he got moody and whiny, disrupted class, and had to sit out (which was, apparently, his goal). When activities weren't a game/contest, he wandered through line drills, patterns, step and free sparring, with no concern for what he was doing or how well (or badly) he was doing it. When I spoke to his parents, they told me that he needed to learn to finish what he had started, and that he had to "stick it out" until he reached black belt. A few weeks later, they came in to tell me he had missed class because he had been dropped at the door of the YMCA, as usual, and as soon as his parents were out of sight, he crossed a major street (12 years old, remember) to a nearby shopping center and went wandering through stores. This apparently did not give his parents any clue to his lack of motivation to be in class, as they continued to bring him... although they did start escorting him in.

He was a red belt (2nd gup) when he quit... not because his parents changed their minds, exactly, but because he was put up for testing (when challenged in class, he was more than ready) and when he tested, he performed the way he did most of the time in class, and he failed... miserably. When his father came to talk to me about his test form (which had been returned, with comments on what he needed to improve) he was livid that we would fail the boy. I repeated everything I had said previously about his performance in class, and added that his performance in testing was just the same, and gave him the testing instructor's phone numbers and email address. He excused himself to talk to his son. When the father realized that that night was the start of a new session and dues were due, he told me he was taking the boy to pay his dues, and I never saw the boy again. No other explanations were ever given.

It really sucks to be in this situation. On the one hand, kids do need to learn to finish what they start - in this case, to reach goals they have set. On the other hand, as an instructor, it really sucks to have kids (or adults, but they are more likely to drop out) in class who do not want to be there - it especially sucks for the other members of the class.

 

[Bigshadow]

It depends on how well you know them. If you don't know them very well, you probably won't get them to see a black belt class or whatever.

I don't know for sure how to deal with it other than to try and explain that it isn't the end, IMO, it is the beginning and all the belts and ranks prior were just milestones of preparation.

There is always something more to learn.

 

[Ping898]

In my experience parents (who don't train) often times have tunnel vision in terms of martial arts. Since they don't train they never get the insight into the fact that the black belt is just the beginning, not the end.

If you want to change that woman's mind, I might first discuss with her why she thinks the Black Belt is the end and then present your thoughts as to why you disagree. I doubt you will change her mind right off the bat, but you might over time of several discussions. Also you will probably have to address how she doesn't want her daughter to have "wasted all that time" as to how, the time was not and is not a waste in terms of the self defense, confidence, focus etc....that in the end, the belt is nothing more than a way to hold your pants up....

If the girl really doesn't like it, the mother is doing more harm than good and I have seen several instances where kids are tired of it, stop for 3 or 6 months and then come back reinvigorated.

 

[terryl965]

Lisa it is hard to make people understand that a BB does not mean the journey has ebded but rather the journey continues.

I have had student that trains 3 days a week and are still a white belt they see no need for the belt and I agree with them, if they have no intention on teaching and are simply doing it as a formal training routine why test.

I'm sure with all the wisdom you have you will find the right words

 

[Lisa]

Personally I can not invite the mother to a Black Belt Tae Kwon Do class cause I don't do Tae Kwon Do!

But I understand where you are coming from with the advice and I will suggest it to the young lady I am speaking of. Right now, however, she feels so pushed to continue that she is pushing her heels in the ground and not wanting to even continue while in university.

The mother knows about second and third degree black belts but for whatever reason doesn't believe her daughter should "quit" before reaching that "goal" It is like she measures everything to that point and can't see all the good that has come to her daughter thus far.

 

[Miles]

There is a young girl I know who is a green belt in TKD. Recently with changes in her life (university, etc.) she has been unable to continue with her TKD because of time contraints.

I had the opportunity of meeting her mom a week or so back and we started talking about Martial Arts, etc. This girl's mother is adament about her daughter continuing with her martial arts instruction because she hasn't, in her mother's words "finished" yet. When I asked what she meant by this she told me that she believes you finish what you started and to this woman the finish line was the black belt.

Death is the finish line. Black belt's just the first lap.

If the girl is in a university, I assume she's an adult. As an adult, she should decide whether or not she has the time and inclination to continue with her training. If she is not motivated, she is just wasting her time and the instructor's as well. Mom should let her little girl grow up IMHO.

Miles

 

[Cthulhu]

I see two issues:

1) The mother is forcing the daughter to go. Big no-no. My daughter is taking TKD now and she loves it at 7. However, though we pay waaay too much for that school (separate matter entirely ), we don't force her to go, and we definitely don't do anything as foolish as saying that black belt = "done". I hope she enjoys martial arts for the rest of her life, but if she doesn't want to do it anymore, forcing her isn't going to help a thing.

2) The whole "black belt = done" mentality. Martial arts is one of those things where the journey is far more important than the destination.

It sounds like the young girl just may want to concentrate on her university work for the time being, which is arguably the higher priority. If she doesn't feel she can maintain her martial arts training while doing well in school, she should definitely let her martial arts training take a back seat for a while. The girl seems to have her priorities straight. Her mother is another matter.


Cthulhu

 

[exile]

The problem with the kid in Kacey's story, and maybe the one Lisa's asking about, is that the goal wasn't set by the child, but by the parents. Even if the child agrees at the outset to the training, if they don't maintain their commitment to it, then it's no longer a goal of theirs---and they see no reason to spend the time on something so demanding that they just don't want to do.

I'm not sure there's much point in trying to convince this girl's mother that a first dan black belt signals only that the student has now achieved a basic technical competence in the various subareas of the art. She very likely won't get it, not having trained herself. The main thing now is damage control with her daughter, who's clearly in no frame of mind to listen to anything in which the words `You should...' are present or even implied. Right now, it sounds like her training and her apparently somewhat difficult relationship with her mother have gotten tangled together... probably the best strategy with her would be to somehow convey that the two really are separate things, and that if she does go on with her training it doesn't mean that she's allowing her mother to defeat her or break her will or whatever. Not a guarantee of anything, of course, but it sounds to me like there are these other issues that have gotten into the act somewhere along the line...

 

[Lisa]

This isn't the first time I have heard something like this out of a parent's mouth and everytime I hear it I want to shout "Finish What!?" Martial Arts is a personal journey and should not be determined by the color of your belt or even if there is a belt at all. It is not something that can be defined within simple parameters of start and finish.

 

[MJS]

There is a young girl I know who is a green belt in TKD. Recently with changes in her life (university, etc.) she has been unable to continue with her TKD because of time contraints.

I had the opportunity of meeting her mom a week or so back and we started talking about Martial Arts, etc. This girl's mother is adament about her daughter continuing with her martial arts instruction because she hasn't, in her mother's words "finished" yet. When I asked what she meant by this she told me that she believes you finish what you started and to this woman the finish line was the black belt. The daughter has little desire anymore for TKD, at least not at this time and was getting visibly upset with the way her mother was referring to her as "giving it all up" and "wasting all that time"

Needless to say I was a little speechless and was biting my tongue as well. I would love to try and give this girl some sound advice and perhaps some help in dealing with her mother's perception regarding a black belt. The young lady hasn't closed the door completely at this point, my biggest fear is that she will because of her mother's insistence of it.

Words of wisdom greatly appreciated.

IMO, anytime someone is forced to do something, they're not going to put 100% into it. Its one thing to want your child to do an activity and of course, giving them support is important, but when the parents start to get more competitive than the child, that is a serious issue! We see this all the time with sports activities as well.

As for 'not finishing'...the mother apparently does not have any idea about the Martial Arts. If you were willing to talk to her, you may want to explain that Black Belt is far from being finished. In fact, there is alot more learning to be done.

The daughter does not seem that she wants to give it up all together, but just put it aside for now. Did the daughter ever say that she wanted to quite totally? I've seen many kids take the Summer off for family related activity and then resume at a later time.

Again, I can't stress the importance of this woman easing up a bit. In the long run, she's doing more harm than good.

Mike

 

[Andrew Green]

A lot of instructors push this idea as well, sometimes directed at the parents.

It's part business, if they can convince them they have to "Stick it out to the end" that means more money for the school. Black belt clubs, big banners saying "We are a Black Belt school" and other such things reinforce this.

And, let's be honest, for many people it is the end. Even for those that continue to "train." The intensity drops, less training, more teaching kicks in. And yes, skills sometimes diminish and the belts seem shorter when tied.

It also matches other lessons / classes mentallity. In swimming lessons, you finish the last level and you're "done" unless you decide to pursue lifeguarding or teaching. In school you finish the last grade and you are "done" unless you decide to pursue a higher level. I think some people just view martial arts in the same way, that if you stop before black belt its the same as quitting school before you graduate.... and then there are of course schools that promote black belts using a "Graduation ceremony" and refer to it as such...

 

[exile]

Did the daughter ever say that she wanted to quite totally? I've seen many kids take the Summer off for family related activity and then resume at a later time.
Mike

Good point, Mike!

 

[Lisa]

The daughter does not seem that she wants to give it up all together, but just put it aside for now. Did the daughter ever say that she wanted to quite totally? I've seen many kids take the Summer off for family related activity and then resume at a later time.


Mike

No, she didn't, yet. But you can tell by her words when mom isn't around that she will basically do ANYTHING not to train right now. This is all being coupled, I am sure, by the fact that she would have to join a new school here because she is from out of province. It is something she just doesn't want to take on right now.

 

[morph4me]

The mother needs to be made to understand that a black belt is a piece of cloth that keeps her daughters gi jacket closed, nothing more. If she wants her daughter to have a black belt she doesn't need to come to the just walk into any martial arts supply store or going online and buying one. If she wants her daughter to EARN a black belt, then her daughter has to be invested in the process, and be willing to make the sacrifices that she is obvioulsly not willing to make at this point.

Saying that her daughter will be finished when she becomes a black belt is like saying the mother will not be a mother anymore when her daughter turns 21.

 

[Rook]

I took karate from a different place as a kid, and I pretty well hated it. I wasted alot of time there, and I don't think that anything productive came of it. I think similar things are true of some of the sports my parents pushed me into as a kid. I would never opperate a commercial martial arts school, but I suppose that if I did I would be more than willing to tell parents that I would refuse to train someone who isn't putting in the genuine effort to be there.

Traditional Martial arts are supposed to be a journey of self-improvement. Belt ranks were supposed to be a mark of competitive prowess. When those meanings are left behind for whatever reason, we lose.