Why didn't the TAGB adopt Sine Wave?

Acronym said:
TAGB split from ITF in the 80s but kept everything the same.

The ATA used the Chang Hon/ITF patterns only a year or so before inventing new ones. Their rational was that there wasn't enough kicking in lower grade Chang Hon patterns.
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I don't believe it was only a year. My belief is based on my experience with so many former ATA people doing the Chang Hon patterns. Would seem to be way to many for only a years worth of the association having taught them. They have a strong Chung Do Kwan " Flavor" Since GM H U Lee was a CDK guy.
 
Earl Weiss said:
I don't believe it was only a year. My belief is based on my experience with so many former ATA people doing the Chang Hon patterns. Would seem to be way to many for only a years worth of the association having taught them. They have a strong Chung Do Kwan " Flavor" Since GM H U Lee was a CDK guy.
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Yes. I don't remember but it was a decade tops. Probably 5 years? I don't know the exact nr of years
 
Bruce Lees buddy Jhoon Rhee also jettisoned the Chang Hon forms after some time.

A shame.
 
I mixed them up with Jhoon Rhee. Jhoon Rhee was the one who only used Chang Hon forms for a few years.

"During its early years, the ATA used the Chahng-hun style of forms (also used by the International Taekwondo Federation). But although this style was widely accepted in the Taekwondo community, Eternal Grand Master H.U. Lee felt that its forms did not accurately reflect Taekwondo -- particularly the strength and beauty of Taekwondo kicking techniques.

As a result, he believed the forms contributed little to the Taekwondo curriculum. For example, white belts were expected to know front kicks and side kicks, but no front kick appeared until the third (yellow belt) form, and there was no side kick until the form after that! From 1983 to 1990, Eternal Grand Master introduced the eighteen Songahm forms."

About Songahm Taekwondo
 
Another difference I've heard is that the TAGB schools a greater emphasis on kicks than ITF schools. Kicks are first line of defense in basics training while they are considered equal to hands in ITF curriculums. So a TAGB kick distribution is more like 65%-70% compared to ITF it's more like 50- 60% distribution.. Generally speaking.

I've heard former students give accounts of their training structure and it was different in ways that go beyond coincidences, even though their techniques are the same.
 
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Earl Weiss said:
Sir, like politics, you need to differentiate between what some leaders or orgs say and how the populace feels. Many people from each of the orgs take a live and let live attitude vis a vis "Who the real ITF is" Perhaps all as real, or unreal as the others.
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I do, because it really is just politics. And I share that attitude; there are lots of MDK organizations, too. Only one claims to be The One True Path while the rest of us are pretty much unconcerned. The various ITFs seem to be more fractured than that, at least at the organizational level. The "real" members (in this context) most likely fall into three groups; those who don't really care (probably the largest), those who drink the One True Path Kool-Aid, and those who don't know what organization they're in.
 
Dirty Dog said:
I do, because it really is just politics. And I share that attitude; there are lots of MDK organizations, too. Only one claims to be The One True Path while the rest of us are pretty much unconcerned. The various ITFs seem to be more fractured than that, at least at the organizational level. The "real" members (in this context) most likely fall into three groups; those who don't really care (probably the largest), those who drink the One True Path Kool-Aid, and those who don't know what organization they're in.
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My ITF lineage (North Korean) filed a lawsuit to another one for using the ITF logo. It's so silly.

Just to tease them I asked about entering another ITF groups tournament to which my group replied: You just don't do that.
 
I would like to meet the poor district attorney who gets bogged down in that rabbit hole
 
Earl Weiss said:
In my experience this is not correct. What is that experience? . I was with the ITF From 1974-2010 and during that time officiated at 3 International Championships and one world cup. I attended 7 international Instructor courses with General Choi in 3 countries (Hosting One) (Plus 3 taught by others) Since 2010 Officiated at a couple of Non ITF competitions where International ITF competitors also competed. I am still well acquainted with various ITF competitors and coaches.
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I'll defer to you, because I know your history and qualifications.
 
Acronym said:
My ITF lineage (North Korean) filed a lawsuit to another one for using the ITF logo. It's so silly.

Just to tease them I asked about entering another ITF groups tournament to which my group replied: You just don't do that.
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I have the court decisions - not what happened. All pretty much water under the bridge since they entered into a settlement agreement to live and let live. Some small changes to some logos were made.
 
Earl Weiss said:
I have the court decisions - not what happened. All pretty much water under the bridge since they entered into a settlement agreement to live and let live. Some small changes to some logos were made.
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GM Weiss is all knowing in the ITF. :)

Can you provide us with a link of the modified logo? I don't know which one it is.
 
skribs said:
I'll defer to you, because I know your history and qualifications.
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Sir, thank you. For what it's worth though no longer having official affiliation since I am near O'Hare airport I get lots of visitors, transplants etc. Last fall I hosted an ITF Instructor from Poland for a couple of classes. Previously I hosted one from Canada. I have had, transplants, tourist visitors, people here attending college, here on business etc. from many states in the USA as well as Poland, Canada, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Russia, Siberia, Argentina and probably some others I forget. There are only very small technical differences. I had a Non ITF but Chang Hon visitor watch a pattern and then had people state where they learned it. The Answers aside fro My School included. Canada, Poland, Siberia. His comment was that if he had not been told he would have guessed they were all my students since white belt.
 
Then Dirty Dog knows the answer to the age old question. The North Korean lineage is the true ITF according to the court :D
 
Acronym said:
GM Weiss is all knowing in the ITF. :)

Can you provide us with a link of the modified logo? I don't know which one it is.
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I don't have a link. I am sure various cites wll have different examples. Multi Color ITF, Korean on the legs of the uniform instead of "ITF" The main "Fist'; logo is the same.
 
Acronym said:
Then Dirty Dog knows the answer to the age old question. The North Korean lineage is the true ITF according to the court :D
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I suggest you read the decision - Not really what the court said.
 
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