Why didn't the TAGB adopt Sine Wave?

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I won't do your homework. If you are not affiliated with any of the ITFs, you can't give out a certificate of any of these ITFs. This is not rocket science.

I won't waste more time on you.

You can very easily be an ITF school though that doesn't require competition forms for advancement (unless it is hardcoded into the organization's syllabus for rank requirements/advancement. Some quick google-fu wasn't able to find that though).

 

[skribs]

I won't do your homework. If you are not affiliated with any of the ITFs, you can't give out a certificate of any of these ITFs. This is not rocket science.

I won't waste more time on you.

Here's the thing: I don't believe you. I'm perfectly happy not looking anything up, and continuing to believe that you're wrong. If you want people to take what you say seriously, then back up what you say.

The fact that you're taking this route makes me think even more that you're wrong. You're just losing credibility. Everything you say is said only on your authority, and as far as I can tell, you have the same authority as the average white belt.

 

[Acronym]

You can very easily be an ITF school though that doesn't require competition forms for advancement (unless it is hardcoded into the organization's syllabus for rank requirements/advancement. Some quick google-fu wasn't able to find that though).

There is no divide between competition forms and non competion forms. So the normal route is that you either go all in with SW or you reject it. It's a philosophy in TKD just as much it is a sport element.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

There is no divide between competition forms and non competion forms. So the normal route is that you either go all in with SW or you reject it. It's a philosophy in TKD just as much it is a sport element.

But is there a set syllabus that all ITF schools are expected to follow for promotions? And if there is, does that syllabus include sine wave?

 

[skribs]

There is no divide between competition forms and non competion forms. So the normal route is that you either go all in with SW or you reject it. It's a philosophy in TKD just as much it is a sport element.

So can you reject it and still receive an ITF certificate?

 

[Acronym]

But is there a set syllabus that all ITF schools are expected to follow for promotions?

More or less. Some might skip throws though.

And if there is, does that syllabus include sine wave?

If Sine wave is taught, then it is part of the syllabus and has to be performed everytime a pattern is performed. So if it's there, it's not optional.

 

[Earl Weiss]

From what I understand, not even all ITF schools do sine wave.

That might apply to some newer clubs that have not yet adopted the 30+ year old technical parameters.

 

[Acronym]

That might apply to some newer clubs that have not yet adopted the 30+ year old technical parameters.

Isn't the other way around more likely? Old school club refusing to update itself and stay with the current trend and hostility towards ITF sport TKD?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Do you have literature that says that? Because my research suggests that sine wave was mostly phased out and is more of a fringe thing today. That even Choi stopped advocating for it after some time. I can look it up and provide sources for this later (when I'm on a PC instead of my phone), but my understanding is sine wave is taught in the minority of ITF schools.

In my experience this is not correct. What is that experience? . I was with the ITF From 1974-2010 and during that time officiated at 3 International Championships and one world cup. I attended 7 international Instructor courses with General Choi in 3 countries (Hosting One) (Plus 3 taught by others) Since 2010 Officiated at a couple of Non ITF competitions where International ITF competitors also competed. I am still well acquainted with various ITF competitors and coaches.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Tons and tons of examples of people who train ITF and don't do sine wave. This was from a quick Google search. I spent more time typing the quote tags than I did finding these posts. If you're going to make such bold claims, please try to be correct.[/QUOTE]

Some of your quotes are from unidentified sources. Some I am not personalty familiar with . Many seem to be those who have a strong but very old Chang Hon lineage back to instructors who never changed their habits from "Korean Karate" Mr. Anslow (Rayners Lane TKD) and I are well acquainted. He puts out "Totally TKD" magazine and has published a couple of dozen of my articles. Suffice it to say he is tremendously knowledgeable in many areas but his history with regard to SW started much later than mine.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, not really. Because they each also insist that they are the only real ITF.

Sir, like politics, you need to differentiate between what some leaders or orgs say and how the populace feels. Many people from each of the orgs take a live and let live attitude vis a vis "Who the real ITF is" Perhaps all as real, or unreal as the others.

 

[Acronym]

In my experience this is not correct. What is that experience? . I was with the ITF From 1974-2010 and during that time officiated at 3 International Championships and one world cup. I attended 7 international Instructor courses with General Choi in 3 countries (Hosting One) (Plus 3 taught by others) Since 2010 Officiated at a couple of Non ITF competitions where International ITF competitors also competed. I am still well acquainted with various ITF competitors and coaches.

Which federation did you affiliate yourself with after 2010?

 

[Deleted member 39746]

If i recall correctly, i dont think TAGB is a ITF orgnisation, its seperate and is just the U.K's regulatory body. I could be entirely wrong as i havent looked into it that much and finding info about who is affilitated to who is difficult, but treating it as its own body is the best way to go. Isnt the ATA, in a similar sort of thing?
TAGB may draw more from ITF than WTF though. (and yes it will always be WTF to me)

If sine wave is what i think it is, it wasnt phased out of the place i went to (not TAGB, but a legitimate ITF offshoot) If its that weird crouching sort of thing black belts are taught to do.

 

[Earl Weiss]

So can you reject it and still receive an ITF certificate?

As a rule I would say no. But exceptions apply. I.E. Chuck Norris, Bob Wall and one other received "Special" 8th Dans. Is it possible some slip thru the cracks - absolutely. Videos of their higher level competitions would establish that it is not very likely.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Isn't the other way around more likely? Old school club refusing to update itself and stay with the current trend and hostility towards ITF sport TKD?

By "Newer" I meant those with an older established habits that were "Newer" to the organization.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Isnt the ATA, in a similar sort of thing?
.

It was a long time ago.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Which federation did you affiliate yourself with after 2010?

I continue to be a USTF member. In 2010 the ITF told me if I wanted to be an ITF member I would have to choose between them and the USTF. As far as I was concerned that action violated the ITF constitution. I chose to remain with the USTF.. I had been a member since it's formation.

 

[Acronym]

If i recall correctly, i dont think TAGB is a ITF orgnisation, its seperate and is just the U.K's regulatory body. I could be entirely wrong as i havent looked into it that much and finding info about who is affilitated to who is difficult, but treating it as its own body is the best way to go. Isnt the ATA, in a similar sort of thing?
TAGB may draw more from ITF than WTF though. (and yes it will always be WTF to me)

If sine wave is what i think it is, it wasnt phased out of the place i went to (not TAGB, but a legitimate ITF offshoot) If its that weird crouching sort of thing black belts are taught to do.

TAGB split from ITF in the 80s but kept everything the same.

The ATA used the Chang Hon/ITF patterns only a year or so before inventing new ones. Their rational was that there wasn't enough kicking in lower grade Chang Hon patterns.

 

[Acronym]

I continue to be a USTF member. In 2010 the ITF told me if I wanted to be an ITF member I would have to choose between them and the USTF. As far as I was concerned that action violated the ITF constitution. I chose to remain with the USTF.. I had been a member since it's formation.

Were you surprised that you still got an ITF Grandmaster title post 2010? You are not a celebrity like Chuck Norris.. (no offense).

 

[Earl Weiss]

But is there a set syllabus that all ITF schools are expected to follow for promotions? And if there is, does that syllabus include sine wave?

The technical Parameters for ITF Technique is set forth in General Choi's encyclopedia. Sine wave is part of that. Additionally, many of the Seniors in the ITF orgs spent considerable classroom time at courses with General Choi. - Much more classroom time than many of the ITF Pioneers, getting to know what he wanted thru first hnd observation and not simply reading a book.