When do you call yourself a master?

[IcemanSK]

I think the time one can call themself a master is when one's instructor puts the appropriate belt around that person's waist & calls them that. In KKW circles, that's at 4th Dan. I know my instructor makes a very big deal out of it when he confers that rank on someone.

 

[Nyrotic]

In my opinion, one should never be considered a master unless one achieves the impossible: Mastering everything.

 

[terryl965]

OPk here goes sarcastism, one can call themself Master right up until he or she meets GOD and then they better prayer that he will forgive you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

You know I could tell you from experience from watching my dad. He says "I teach hapkido" he doesn't say I am a master, have mastered it, whatever. He doesn't even like to wear the dobok with the 5th dan trim. He will call himself Mr. Morton, on several occassions I have heard people call him Master Morton, he said "Nope, I am not a master: x,y, z are but not me.

I workout under a GM and a Master in TKD that also hold master rank in hapkido the same as my dad. Also a 4th dan tkd and hkd. You know if you call these nice gentlemen sir they are happy.

I know by KKW you can be called master at 4th dan. I told our 4th dan this, he is a certified tkd sparring and ring person. Anyway he said he could be called master at one of two times. Promotion to 5th dan, or when he is as good at tkd as GM Hildebrand.

Just to throw in one more example of humble.....on Sunday dec. 10 Derekhkd and a few others tested and passed their 3rd gup tests. We all went out to eat. Well we have a tradition that the lowest ranking belt goes to pay the bill after the money had been collected etc.

I went and paid it, even though I have a dan rank in judo...I had not tested for my 5th gup in hapkido nor my 4th gup in tkd. I figured the whole tabling area was filled with 2nd dans and above with the execption of the 3 who tested and me. So I said, my dan rank is in another school and art. I don't care, everyone finish eating and went and paid.

I occasionally get shuttle ride form the local dealership, and one of the driver's has son who is a MASTER. I have to hear about it everytime, he seems to forget that that he has told me but remembered I study martial arts. I felt/feel embarrased for this guy everytime, with the assumption he did not tell his father to tell everyone he is a master. (* His rank is 4th in one of the TKD feds/orgs *)

To some it is a badge of honor they think they deserve because fo the work they have put in. These are similiar to those who have a black belt and tell everyone about it. Or the guy who wins a tournament and tells everyone about how he kicked everyones rear end, not telling anyone it was based upon a good presentation of forms. It is misleading, and it also feeds some peoples' ego.

I have a friend I have known for years, and I walked into his school a few years ago and asked if he was in. I called him by first name only. The student who I spoke too (* it was before a class so no disruption *) had no idea who I was talking about. So I said his name with his last name as well. His reply was, " Oh you mean Master ...." . I know they guy in question and we are on first name basis as have been for years. His students call him such title in his school as part of their training. So, I understand this. Yet this poor student thought I committed this great sin. I just smiled and said, "Yes, may I speak to Master ...?" My friend laughed as did I, for I was not upset, and understood how/why / what went down.

Follow you schools format as others have said or your organizations rules. Here is a real clue though, if the senior instructor of the school or system introduces them as such and such a title, then the usage of said title while in class would be expected, as it was appropriate.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Didn't NWA do that song. "Why do I call myself a master you ask me?"

 

[wade]

My opinion. Master is nothing more than a title the same as Ms. or Mr. If you are in the business world people tend to call you by these titles, it's polite. In the MA it's the same thing, only now it goes by rank. So, if Jim Smith or Betty Smith goes to Washington to work they are called Mr. and Ms. If they are both 4th Dans and Mr. or Ms. Smith goes to their MA school, the title changes to Master. As for people who call them selves Master (first name), that to me would be like going to work and being introduces as Mr. Jim or Ms. Betty. It sounds kinda stupid (to Me, my opinion, remember). If they want to be called Mr. or Ms. in class that's fine, but I don't see the problem in calling them Master either. Me, I pretty much call everyone by their first names, but then I don't know any better anyway.

 

[tellner]

My wife has a good standard...

"Call yourself a master when you think you can handle the consequences and deal with whatever comes through the door to see if you measure up."

 

[zDom]

My 2 cents:

Ya'll are making too much of the title "master."

IMO, mastering something is not the same as perfecting something.

Mastery is possible, perfection is not.

There are master plumbers, master carpenters, and people are awarded master's degrees in academics. Why the big fuss over a master title for martial arts?

Personally I think it is more becoming when those who hold the rank do not call themselves by the title or insist on it from their students.

But I see nothing wrong with students using it, just as I see nothing wrong with addressing PhD's college instructors "Doctor So-and-so."

Mastering a trade or art is achievable, another milestone in the journey toward perfection which is NOT achievable but can result in excellence by pursuing it.

On the other hand, not everyone who has earned the title "master" has truly mastered their art...

 

[scottt]

Being a master instructor is a good description, but I also think of "master" as a person who is simply a master of her/himself. Nobody who has trained that long really believes they are finished and have mastered the art. It may take that long to control ego, doubt, and other things that keep people from being in control of themselves. That is what I think of in terms of a master.

 

[shauntkd]

I am in no way bothered by the person wanting to use the title and will even call him master out of respect. I was just curious at some of the opinions out there. Be sides that it is my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong but in the KKW you have to have 2 approvals to be promoted. One from your instructor and one from the KKW. So until you get the certificate you don't really know if you passed, because for some unforseen reason the KKW might fail you. But I could care less either way, if he wants to be called master I will, if not I won't.

 

[Miles]

The Kukkiwon does not certify masters, just instructors.

There are 3 levels of certified instructors, the 3rd class instructor holds the rank of 4th or 5th dan and has passed the 3rd class instructor course. The 2nd class instructor holds the rank of 6th or 7th dan and has passed the 3rd and 2nd class courses. The 1st class instructor holds the rank of 8th or 9th dan and has passed all 3 courses.

Miles

PS Hope everyone had a nice Christmas!

 

[terryl965]

The Kukkiwon does not certify masters, just instructors.

There are 3 levels of certified instructors, the 3rd class instructor holds the rank of 4th or 5th dan and has passed the 3rd class instructor course. The 2nd class instructor holds the rank of 6th or 7th dan and has passed the 3rd and 2nd class courses. The 1st class instructor holds the rank of 8th or 9th dan and has passed all 3 courses.

Miles

PS Hope everyone had a nice Christmas!

Miles had a great Christmas and we had a visit from your friend Master Southwick and he even got to train some of my students hope your Holidays was blessed as well.

 

[DArnold]

Where did some of you get the notion that "Master" means you know everything and that you stop learning?

Interesting concept...

 

[IcemanSK]

Where did some of you get the notion that "Master" means you know everything and that you stop learning?

Interesting concept...

There is certainly that perception in MA. Sadly, sometimes it's perpetuated by those of high rank. We don't say that folks who achieve greatest in other sports have reached perfection. Michael Jordan sure trained hard every day. Tiger Woods still gets up early to hit golf balls. Why? To get better!

I'm tired of movies where the sage "master" can still whip the student, even tho he never trains. In the real world, if we don't train, we loose skills. Period.

 

[DArnold]

There is certainly that perception in MA. Sadly, sometimes it's perpetuated by those of high rank. We don't say that folks who achieve greatest in other sports have reached perfection. Michael Jordan sure trained hard every day. Tiger Woods still gets up early to hit golf balls. Why? To get better!

I'm tired of movies where the sage "master" can still whip the student, even tho he never trains. In the real world, if we don't train, we loose skills. Period.

I know what you mean.
Like Yoda who can bearly walk with a cane but when it comes to the fight he buzzes around like a fly LOL

 

[Kwiter]

When my Mrs says it's okie ;-)

BTW the snippet of the song attributed to Johnny Cash is actually by
Tom Petty

 

[TraditionalTKD]

With Kukkiwon, you test for and are promoted to the rank of Instructor. "Master" is a title by which you are addressed from other members of your organization out of respect for your rank and the hard work that went into it. Among fellow Instructors, it is common to address each other as Mister, Missus, or Ms. "Master" is typically used by students to senior Instructors. It is a form of address for respect, nothing more.
The best way to earn the address of "Master" is through action-by showing a thorough knowledge of martial arts technique, history, philosophy, manners, etiquette etc.
I do not expect to be addressed as "Master" by non practitioners, and Instructors who do, or who expect to be called "Master" by students of other styles or organizations are egotistical idiots.

 

[DArnold]

In my opinion, one should never be considered a master unless one achieves the impossible: Mastering everything.

As taught though...

Total enlightment would be the most depressing thing in the world.

I know I would quite if there were nothing to learn
:shock:

 

[Bret Hinds]

What is a master? To master a art one would have to spend a lifetime to it it. To master a art one would give up on learning new ways or rembering old forggoten ways. The arts are a learning and relearning way. To be a master one would be dead to the art. But the title to be called master is a goal to try to become. life starts with death or does death start with life? Time to jump of the soap box! master is just a name. All the best in the arts

 

[hong kong fooey]

i would have to say 6 or 7th dan thats just my opinion though