U.S based schools mostly useless?

[Mr. President]

This is Joe Rogan trashing Taekwondo, claiming that as much as he learned, he was unable to use his hands against kickboxers and got his *** kicked.

I obviously disagree and I know for a fact that in Korea, plenty of ITF schools have their students punching walls for hours to strengthen their hands, but maybe Rogan's point (without him realizing it) is that U.S schools of Taekwondo mostly do a very poor job of teaching students how to use their hands (both defensively and offensively) as extensively as they use their feet.

Do you think American Taekwondo standards are pretty low compared to Korean standards? Do too many schools crank out 3-4 year black belts that are clueless in self defense?

 

[Touch Of Death]

This is Joe Rogan trashing Taekwondo, claiming that as much as he learned, he was unable to use his hands against kickboxers and got his *** kicked.

I obviously disagree and I know for a fact that in Korea, plenty of ITF schools have their students punching walls for hours to strengthen their hands, but maybe Rogan's point (without him realizing it) is that U.S schools of Taekwondo mostly do a very poor job of teaching students how to use their hands (both defensively and offensively) as extensively as they use their feet.

Do you think American Taekwondo standards are pretty low compared to Korean standards? Do too many schools crank out 3-4 year black belts that are clueless in self defense?

I'm going to say yes, but rest assure the other arts have caught up to the practice.
Sean

 

[Kframe]

I agree with him on the punching, I see so many videos of TKD people in various places in fights, trying to punch and the form looks horrid. I wonder if ill ever see a video of a TKD BB in a fight, that can not only kick, but punch good as well..

 

[Kong Soo Do]

This is Joe Rogan trashing Taekwondo, claiming that as much as he learned, he was unable to use his hands against kickboxers and got his *** kicked.

I obviously disagree and I know for a fact that in Korea, plenty of ITF schools have their students punching walls for hours to strengthen their hands, but maybe Rogan's point (without him realizing it) is that U.S schools of Taekwondo mostly do a very poor job of teaching students how to use their hands (both defensively and offensively) as extensively as they use their feet.

Do you think American Taekwondo standards are pretty low compared to Korean standards? Do too many schools crank out 3-4 year black belts that are clueless in self defense?

Korean TKD schools crank out BB's in about a year, and they are generally as clueless about self-defense as their stateside counterparts. Don't mean to be harsh with that statement, but it is what it is.

 

[StudentCarl]

Do you think American Taekwondo standards are pretty low compared to Korean standards? Do too many schools crank out 3-4 year black belts that are clueless in self defense?

No and no. Your conclusion about Korean schools is a generalization and unclear about who your are referring to--the 6th grade black belts from the public school system or people in the pipeline for international competition. It's definitely oversimple to generalize about the US, as there are no greater requirements to be an instructor than having a good color printer, a place to teach, and gullible clients--there's a guy like that teaching across town. Yes, there are very high quality instructors and quality schools as well as junk.

Clueless in self-defense? Oversimple question. Do many schools have a student who is diligent and does the best s/he can with the mental and physical abilities s/he has, but who lacks the situational awareness, street smarts, verbal skills, and aggression that would save them from your 'clueless' label? Yep, and they are better people because of the activity, skill building, discipline, and character development they gain from a good instructor. They are more likely to be successful in self-defense, but you should RUN AWAY FAST from anyone who promises you that they can train you to never look clueless in self-defense (real self-defense, not the monkey dance).

 

[Mr. President]

the 6th grade black belts from the public school system or people in the pipeline for international competition.

That's another problem. Maybe a martial art can become too popular for its own good. TKD is already the most practiced martial art in the world, and that is due, among other things, to competition and the sporty side of the art.

The same with BJJ and Muay Thai. MMA has popularized these methods to the extent that tons of new schools get their students competition ready, but not street ready.

 

[StudentCarl]

That's another problem. Maybe a martial art can become too popular for its own good. TKD is already the most practiced martial art in the world, and that is due, among other things, to competition and the sporty side of the art.

The same with BJJ and Muay Thai. MMA has popularized these methods to the extent that tons of new schools get their students competition ready, but not street ready.

This is a big shift from your OP, probably better as a new topic, but:

I disagree. How popular an art doesn't make it good or bad; that doesn't make sense.

 

[Mr. President]

I disagree. How popular an art doesn't make it good or bad; that doesn't make sense.

Let's say person #1 tells person #2 a joke he just came up with. #2 likes the joke and tells it to person #3. Chances are, he's going to tell the joke the same way it was told to him.

But what happens when the joke becomes so popular, it's told to person #20,856 by person #20,855? I'm guessing it's not going to sound the same as it was when #1 came up with it. There are bound to be some deviations.

Maybe TKD became too popular to remain loyal to its original, defensive-use martial art form, and too many people are not getting what they're supposed to out of it?

 

[dancingalone]

Maybe TKD became too popular to remain loyal to its original, defensive-use martial art form, and too many people are not getting what they're supposed to out of it?

Tai chi chuan is largely studied as a health exercise by (frequently) elderly people. Yet at its roots it is definitely a fighting art. Which should it be? Why can't it be both?

Really, this argument is the same as the sport vs. sd one or the child black belt one. It boils down to people have differing opinions on what something should be or mean along with intolerance for opposing views.

And, it's a rather dull thing to argue about on a holiday. I guess I should take that as a hint. Happy Easter, everyone. I'm going to take my family out for an outing.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Tai chi chuan is largely studied as a health exercise by (frequently) elderly people. Yet at its roots it is definitely a fighting art. Which should it be? Why can't it be both?

If you train it correctly...it is.

As for Joe Rogan and TKD....obviously he never trained with Jae Hun Kim

 

[blindsage]

Worldwide, Wing Chun and Taiji are more popular than TKD. But that's why they both suck. :wink2:

 

[ATC]

OK first of all Joe Rogan did not get really good at anything. In his mind maybe but he never won any major WTF (he said he wanted to go to the Olympics) anything. No US Open, No national team member, nothing. So his words are about him being really good is just talk. Just because he says it does not make it true.

2nd, if you are only focused on one thing (kicking only) then you are crazy. That is TKD or anything. Same is said for boxers. They have no kicks or ground game either so Boxing has some huge holes.

Take any art that has a sport that you practice for that has rules set that you practice for those rules but then go and participate in a sport that does not use the rules that you have practiced for and what do you get? Your **** KICK! Joe Rogan is for a better word an IDIOT! He thinks like a 10 year old. All I can do is shake my head.

If Joe Rogan was not smart enough to look at the sport that he wanted to do and supplement his train before doing said sport then that is an idiot. There is now way possible for any TKD only person to participate in a boxing match without knowing how to box. Just like no boxer can join a TKD event without learning how to kick.

This is just stupid at best. How can you put down any art for not being able to use it in a sport that has rules set for said sport only. Just does not make sense.

Joe Rogan said it so it must be true. Wow!! I hope people are smarter than that.

 

[K-man]

I obviously disagree and I know for a fact that in Korea, plenty of ITF schools have their students punching walls for hours to strengthen their hands, but maybe Rogan's point (without him realizing it) is that U.S schools of Taekwondo mostly do a very poor job of teaching students how to use their hands (both defensively and offensively) as extensively as they use their feet.

Do you think American Taekwondo standards are pretty low compared to Korean standards? Do too many schools crank out 3-4 year black belts that are clueless in self defense?

The problem is not with TKD as such. The problem is that TKD has developed as a competition based sport and a very big and popular one at that. You get young kids involved and start teaching a sport based system from day one. What do you think you are going to turn out, trained killers? You train for a sport that does not encourage punching. Of course these students are not going to be effective with their hands. Then they stand at a range that they can utilise their kicks and wonder why someone inside that range can kick their ****. It's a bit of a no brainer!

If TKD is trained as a reality based system it is as effective as any for self defence. If, as is the norm., it is trained for sport, it will be great for sport. The two rarely combine satisfactorily, and that is the same for all other martial arts, just TKD has a more restrictrictive rule set. :asian:

 

[ndnoakes]

Agreed, TKD globally is too sport orientated and as such very watered down for a lot of students, something that is frankly a disappointment to me daily...

The basis of TKD is sound, but effectiveness particularly with regards to self defence depends on the student and instructor, as with any art.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

"Crawl on top of me, and meet your doom!" Hilarious!

 

[sopraisso]

Saying "sport TKD is useless against a kickboxer in a sporting environment" is like saying training soccer is useless to help one become good at baseball. What's the point?! They're just a different games!

What most people don't realize, though, is that sport TKD is a game, and sport MMA or kickboxing or sport muay thai... all of them are games as well! And all have very little to do with self-defense.

Traditional TKD, if adequately practiced has a great arsenal when it comes to "self-defense fighting", but honestly, most martial art schools -- no matter the style -- are pretty clueless when it comes to the subject -- and most schools I know, fortunately, don't even claim to teach that stuff.

I'm only sorry because often I see in the news people hurting themselves or being killed because of believing they're learning to defend themselves in the streets, when they're actually learning a sport. Many times they become over-confident and even willingly to pick up fights around. In my country many young boys have already died because of that.

 

[Gorilla]

Wow another TKD sucks thread very original....please go on theses are fun...ATC dead on about Joe Rogan....

BTW...what do Anthony Petis, Benson Henderson, Anderson Silva, Edson Barbosa, S Bonnar all have in common they are all UFC fighters and TKD BB..

 

[K-man]

Wow another TKD sucks thread very original....please go on theses are fun...ATC dead on about Joe Rogan....

BTW...what do Anthony Petis, Benson Henderson, Anderson Silva, Edson Barbosa, S Bonnar all have in common they are all UFC fighters and TKD BB..

The other thing they all have in common is that they have all cross trained and not relied on their primary skill .. not that others haven't had to do the same thing.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

The other thing they all have in common is that they have all cross trained and not relied on their primary skill .. not that others haven't had to do the same thing.

Exactly, Petis for instance was boxing from a young age, Henderson has half a dozen arts in his arsenal, even Edson is a very established muay thai fighter etc. The same can be said of other mma/ufc guys but generally if you are a muay thai guy (for instance) then muay thai is your stand up game and then you cross train in a ground game. I doubt there would be many (if any) successful fighters who use tkd exclusively as their stand up game, because of lack of hand ability Id imagine. Thats why muay thai guys stll look, to a large degree, like a muay thai guy when they fight in mma, whereas tkd guys alter their game so much to suit the mma ruleset that they dont typicaly look like a tkd guy when they fight.

 

[Gorilla]

90 % of Henderson's kicks in the Edgar fight were TKD...some much so the above mentioned Joe Rogan mentioned it a Half a dozen times during the fight. He was using a side stance and a side kick for heavens sake. Barbosa's most famous kick is a spinning heal.. 90% of Pettis's kicking game is TKD...it is clear when. You watch these guys fight they are TKD BLACKBELTS


It is also clear that they are well rounded and have great ground games and are very good at MT, wrestling and BJJ etc...