That's probably a bit too general a statement. Anyway, I'm not sure what a sparring rule-set has to do with rank.


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I think proficiency in sparring is just as relevant to rank as patterns is. I also feel the amount of overlap and demands for the lower belts is of the nature that he could easily start as a green belt, since it is not expected of him to "master" anything at that point.
 
Rank is definitely not the most important thing to me. I rarely get the motivation to test for promotion. I like for my abilities to be better than my rank and only wear a solid black belt with no stripes. I just think it's weird/predatory to go to another taekwondo school with over 20 years of experience and put a white belt, like I'm new. When I get back I'll check to see what's up. This is good convo. Thanks everyone. Pleased to see that my question didn't spark a lot of sassy replies.
I think I understand what you mean about it being weird to go in and put on a white belt, especially if you'll be sent to spar with white belts. Consider this: what if your current rank was in Shotokan Karate? The issue would likely be the same, but you'd know that you'd be starting over. I've both trained alongside and taught guys who came into my primary art after significant experience (including some 1st, 2nd, and 4th dan - oddly, no 3rd that I can think of) in other arts. They had to start as white belts, but couldn't be treated entirely as white belts, for obvious reasons. Even if you had to start back at white (which I would doubt, but is a possibility), the instructor should be able to keep you sparring with appropriate partners while you are working to rank up to the appropriate level. And for the times you get paired with lower level students, I assume you already have to do some of that, anyway, so you know how to control your technique to be fair to their skill level. The real question wouldn't be whether you'd be predatory, but whether you'd be getting enough strong opposition to develop your own skills.
 
When I went to check out a Chung Do Kwan school after receiving my first Dan in KKW TKD, I did not mention my rank. About half way through the class the instructor asked me and was gonna treat me like a BB. Felt weird though because I didn't know any of the curriculum. I would have been fine with putting on a white belt and maybe progress through the ranks a bit quicker.

My old KKW school also only did Olympic style sparring ( one of the reason I got a bit fed up with it).

Lastly both the KKW and the CDK school were mostly kids and maybe some teens, which was discouraging.

In the end I decided to switch arts.
 
There was a 4th or 5th Dan in Shotokan Karate who wanted to start training ITF TaeKwonDo and was rejected by the instructor because he (the student) was higher rated than him, and didn't feel that asn an instructor that he would be qualifed to teach the person.

I find that very puzzling given that: A) ITF will teach completely different kicking and punching tactics . B) different, continious fighting rules from JKAs stop-format. C) Different stances and D) teaches hyperextending the knee when kicking in forms.
 
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There was a 4th or 5th Dan in Shotokan Karate who wanted to start training ITF TaeKwonDo and was rejected by the instructor because he (the student) was higher rated than him, and didn't feel that asn an instructor that he would be qualifed to teach the person.

I find that very puzzling given that: A) ITF will teach completely different kicking and punching tactics . B) different, continious fighting rules from JKAs stop-format. C) Different stances and D) teaches hyperextending the knee when kicking in forms.
I would love to have someone come in with more advanced skill, wanting to learn from me. It would improve what I teach, no doubt. And I wouldn't hesitate to learn from someone of much lower rank in another art, so long as they have something to teach.
 
I would love to have someone come in with more advanced skill, wanting to learn from me. It would improve what I teach, no doubt.

So long as it's not a ruse to take your students to his new school opening soon!

I saw that at the UFC gym. A guy talked about how good he was, how the instructors at the UFC gym were mediocre, and that he was opening a school next month that I try for a few weeks.
 
So long as it's not a ruse to take your students to his new school opening soon!

I saw that at the UFC gym. A guy talked about how good he was, how the instructors at the UFC gym were mediocre, and that he was opening a school next month that I try for a few weeks.
My students would mostly consider that a dick move. The best he could hope for would be to cost me some students - he'd be unlikely to gain any.
 
Not really an answer to the original question, but I feel it's worth mentioning...

My former teacher had everyone who had previous experience wear a white belt for a month or 3 until he got a solid understanding of where/what that student should be ranked. The student would be paired up with everyone (age appropriately) in the dojo during sparring during that time. That part's not an anomaly though, as we all sparred each other, regardless of rank.

I think his approach was very good and effective. One woman left afterwards as she didn't like going from a 3rd dan in TKD to a brown belt in our Kyokushin offshoot school. That's where he felt she should be ranked, and objectively speaking, so did pretty much everyone else.

Edit: Don't take that as me saying every TKD 3rd dan is equal to a Kyokushin brown belt. It was her abilities that determined that, not her background.
 
When I went to check out a Chung Do Kwan school after receiving my first Dan in KKW TKD, I did not mention my rank.

I would hope they would recognise your KKW 1st Dan. Chungdokwan supports Kukkiwon syllabus and rank 100% (the same as all of the original kwans, including Ohdokwan Korea HQ). Chungdokwan Taekwondo isn't different to Kukkiwon Taekwondo (at least it shouldn't be now and if you visit the CDK HQ in Korea, it will be exactly the same techniques as KKW).

Reasoning: I'm a Changmookwan member and know this is how it is from talking with my Kwan seniors at the CMK HQ, I also have a lot of Chungdokwan friends.
 
How about red belt or black stripe? Are those ranks transferable into a KKW federeration?
 
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Not really an answer to the original question, but I feel it's worth mentioning...

My former teacher had everyone who had previous experience wear a white belt for a month or 3 until he got a solid understanding of where/what that student should be ranked. The student would be paired up with everyone (age appropriately) in the dojo during sparring during that time. That part's not an anomaly though, as we all sparred each other, regardless of rank.

I think his approach was very good and effective. One woman left afterwards as she didn't like going from a 3rd dan in TKD to a brown belt in our Kyokushin offshoot school. That's where he felt she should be ranked, and objectively speaking, so did pretty much everyone else.

Edit: Don't take that as me saying every TKD 3rd dan is equal to a Kyokushin brown belt. It was her abilities that determined that, not her background.
This would be my approach, with the only adjustment being they'd need to pass the appropriate tests. I'd give some pretty broad latitude on the technical replication of form (that can be learned later), but they would need to know the techniques appropriate to the rank. So, a Karateka probably becomes a white belt, as does a Jiujitero. A Judoka, Aikidoka, Hapkidoist, or Jujutsuka probably moves to a higher (than white) rank after an adjustment and evaluation period.
 
I would hope they would recognise your KKW 1st Dan. Chungdokwan supports Kukkiwon syllabus and rank 100% (the same as all of the original kwans, including Ohdokwan Korea HQ). Chungdokwan Taekwondo isn't different to Kukkiwon Taekwondo (at least it shouldn't be now and if you visit the CDK HQ in Korea, it will be exactly the same techniques as KKW).

Reasoning: I'm a Changmookwan member and know this is how it is from talking with my Kwan seniors at the CMK HQ, I also have a lot of Chungdokwan friends.


Interesting, I guess I should have said CDK offshoot. Their Kwang Jang Nim founded his own TKD association here in the US 30 years ago. That might explain why they are not aligned with the current CDK/KKW curriculum. They were definitely teaching the Chang Hon forms.
 
This would be my approach, with the only adjustment being they'd need to pass the appropriate tests. I'd give some pretty broad latitude on the technical replication of form (that can be learned later), but they would need to know the techniques appropriate to the rank. So, a Karateka probably becomes a white belt, as does a Jiujitero. A Judoka, Aikidoka, Hapkidoist, or Jujutsuka probably moves to a higher (than white) rank after an adjustment and evaluation period.
They had to know pretty much everything required for the rank they were awarded. The person I referenced in my post you quoted knew about 90% of the brown belt and below material. It was a matter of tweaking a few things, learning a kata or two, etc. She had the mentality of "once a black belt, always a black belt" but didn't comprehend that even if that's true (which it isn't always true), it doesn't mean always a black belt in every art out there. No different than when I had a black belt in karate, I wouldn't expect my rank to carry over to TKD, BJJ, nor anything else.

The first karate organization I joined was founded by two senior black belts who came from my current organization. The curriculum up to and including shodan is about 95% the same in both. Where they split is at nidan. I went into my current school knowing 95% of the syllabus for the rank I left at. It was a matter of learning 4 kata, 3 of which are pretty simple, and a series of 7 simple choreographed solo drills. I started at white belt and tested for every rank so far. I'm currently at 3rd kyu, and will test for 2nd kyu right around the holidays (barring injury and/or illness). I'll be there 3 years in February.

And I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm far better today than I ever was previously. Testing for shodan under Nakamura will be great, and I look forward to when that happens. Not for the rank and/or belt, but for the test itself. I'm in no hurry though; it'll happen when it happens. If it takes another 3 years, so be it.

Anyone hung up on rank and/or belts would've left.
 
No, you're not. There's no such thing as WTF TKD. By 3rd Dan, you really ought to know this.
Personally, I'd much rather wear a white belt and have people wonder why than wear a black belt and have people wonder why. You will likely feel quite the fool when lower ranked students ask you for help with a form and you don't know it.

Personally I'd have no "pride" issue in wearing a white belt. I'd just want to clarify ahead of time what the testing would cost if the instructor says something like, "just start at white, and you'll test each month as you learn the material".
 
Personally I'd have no "pride" issue in wearing a white belt. I'd just want to clarify ahead of time what the testing would cost if the instructor says something like, "just start at white, and you'll test each month as you learn the material".

Testing fees are certainly something that should be up front.
 

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