The Jab

[MJS]

This is a punch that we see alot of in boxing, yet I haven't seen much use in MMA fights. IMO, I think, just like any other strike or kick, that it has its place. Used properly, it is great to set up other strikes, as well as a nice punch to throw when moving back.

What are your thoughts on this punch? Is it something that you feel has value to it or is it something that you don't train as much as your other punches?

 

[KempoGuy06]

As always great choice of topics:

I like the jab. I use it quite a bit when sparring. Like you said its good in setting up other strikes. For instance a quick jab with the lead hand to the head or mid section will cause you opponent to shift their hand accordingly and open something else up. Also a quick flurry of jabs can distract you opponent and cause them to make a mistake and it can give you more time to think.

I really like the jab. Im a hands person when it comes to sparring. People have come to expect me to strike mostly with my hands which is an advantage and disadvantage for me. While they expect mostly punches (disadvantage) the few kicks I throw are even that more suprising (advantage). So I use that to help me, get in throw some quick hand combos, then the ever important jab to make distance, and then the elusive roundhouse kick

So all in all the jab is important

B

 

[14 Kempo]

I use jabs in my training. I am of the school that there are two types of strikes. Those that are short and quick, and those that are large and powerful. Short, quick strikes are used to stun and setup large powerful strikes. Very few people have trained enough to use the 'one-inch punch' effectively in a fight.

So, long story short, I do practice and use boxing type jabs. I also practice and use short, jab type movements of other types such as snap kicks, backfists, knifehands, spearhands and pokes.

 

[zDom]

I think the jab is a great technique.

My experience has shown me that, thrown with some "snap," a little hip, and at the right time, it can be be knockout punch all by itself, not just a set up for something else.

 

[14 Kempo]

I think the jab is a great technique.

My experience has shown me that, thrown with some "snap," a little hip, and at the right time, it can be be knockout punch all by itself, not just a set up for something else.

Definately, I agree whole-heartedly. Need to practice, practice, practice.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Definately a viable technique and very, very useful to set up a follow up strike. (that is how I use it most of the time as a set up) Recently at my Tactical Push Dagger Seminar we were training it with a Push Dagger in your jabbing hand which adds a whole new world to scary! :erg:

 

[aplonis]

My own instructor, a 6th dan TKD master, teaches the jab. Although not among the 22 basic techniques (originally from CDK, I believe) done at start of class, the jab shows up almost every time we get to the next part, combinations. Perhaps half of all combinations start with a jab.

The jab has good utility. It's quick and there's no pre-chamber to telegraph your intent. Formally a TKD technique or not, the jab sill shows up quite often in sparring.

Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us

 

[CuongNhuka]

While I wait for an MMA fighter to respond, I will give my thoughts. Well, ok, they're Bas Rutten's thoughts. Acording to him, it is useless, and dangerous. Why? Becuase it is easy to throw someone if they have just thrown a jab. Like it's hard to throw somebody from any other strike.
Then again, Bruce Lee loved the job. He put his strong side forward so he could hit harder with his Jab. Me personnaly, I like to jab. If nothing else, it's good for probing.

 

[zDom]

My own instructor, a 6th dan TKD master, teaches the jab. Although not among the 22 basic techniques (originally from CDK, I believe) done at start of class, the jab shows up almost every time we get to the next part, combinations. Perhaps half of all combinations start with a jab.

The jab has good utility. It's quick and there's no pre-chamber to telegraph your intent. Formally a TKD technique or not, the jab sill shows up quite often in sparring.

Gan Uesli Starling
http://wmtkd.us

Well, I CALL it a "jab" and in sparring, that's what it most looks like — but as far as formal training, I train a larger motion "side punch" which IS a genuine TKD technique (not sure if it is one of the original CKD 22) but it IS found in poomsea.

Hmm been a while since I've done them, but I think side punch is even found in the Taeguek forms --- chil chang or pal chang maybe? I'd have to stand up and walk my way through the forms to remember

 

[zDom]

While I wait for an MMA fighter to respond, I will give my thoughts. Well, ok, they're Bas Rutten's thoughts. Acording to him, it is useless, and dangerous. Why? Becuase it is easy to throw someone if they have just thrown a jab. Like it's hard to throw somebody from any other strike.
Then again, Bruce Lee loved the job. He put his strong side forward so he could hit harder with his Jab. Me personnaly, I like to jab. If nothing else, it's good for probing.

Bas is a great fighter, a dangerous fellow, but I think he has a tendency to overstate opinions (especially when he gets on a roll )

"Useless"? I think not. Does it have the potential to open you up to some sort of counter? Well, yea ... I guess so. But as I think you noted, ALL techniques open you up to SOMETHING.

That is why fighting eventually becomes a mental game like chess when fighting someone skilled. Deception, setups, feints, misdirection, anticipation — and setting up anticipation to exploit their anticipation, etc. etc. etc.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Bas is a great fighter, a dangerous fellow, but I think he has a tendency to overstate opinions (especially when he gets on a roll )

"Useless"? I think not. Does it have the potential to open you up to some sort of counter? Well, yea ... I guess so. But as I think you noted, ALL techniques open you up to SOMETHING.

That is why fighting eventually becomes a mental game like chess when fighting someone skilled. Deception, setups, feints, misdirection, anticipation — and setting up anticipation to exploit their anticipation, etc. etc. etc.

Did you read his technique critique in Black Belt? He says that the standard boxing jab is useless in MMA/real fights becuase they over expose you to a throw. I think the only major group that would agree that a jab is dangerous is Wing Chun fighters, and they have completly seperate reasons.

 

[TheOriginalName]

Firstly - what a great topic of discussion....good on you for this one!!

Secondly - i've only been training for a few months, so am new to the MA world. So far i've only trained in 4 punches - one of which is the jab.
Personally i love it.
If you take it out of the Dojo if you are being attacked a good jab is going to throw the agressor off - it will shake him up and move his thinking from attack to defence .... and hopefully to just run away and cry (but we could only hope).

And as i'm always told - a good jab comes out fast but comes back twice as fast.

Again - great topic!!

 

[kidswarrior]

I would have to first know if we're talking about a sport or street venue. The OP mentioned MMA, so that would seem to indicate sport. When I boxed a couple of lifetimes ago, my jab was very effective for me in keeping the range where I wanted it, keeping the other guy off balance, and as zDom said, great as a feint to keep the guy guessing. In MMA, I don't know enough to comment.

For the street, don't like my guys training to hit facial bones with bare knuckles. Besides the danger of breaking the smaller hand bones on a hard head, there are just so many blood borne pathogens today that mixing body fluids with someone is dicey in itself. So in theory, I'd say it could be useful on the street as well as in sport, but in reality don't like to see it used for actual self-defense.

 

[CuongNhuka]

For the street, don't like my guys training to hit facial bones with bare knuckles. Besides the danger of breaking the smaller hand bones on a hard head,

Behold the glory of palm strikes. Then again, Wing Chun guys say if you want to beat your opponent and take less of a risk of killing him/her, you keep your hands closed... mmm... Now, I'm confused.

 

[tradrockrat]

Well since I don't' compete in MMA style fighting , the opinion of their fighters doesn't mean that much to me. I love the jab. I've used the jab to great effect in several different scenarios - continuous contact sparing, kickboxing, bouncing, fighting off two thugs in an ally,... so yeah, I like it.

 

[kidswarrior]

Behold the glory of palm strikes. Then again, Wing Chun guys say if you want to beat your opponent and take less of a risk of killing him/her, you keep your hands closed... mmm... Now, I'm confused.

Not just palm heels, but knife hands (padded, also), tiger claws (rakes, grabs, throws, pressure points), hammer fist (padded striking surface, again) ox jaw (sometimes called crane head; yes, you can use it bone on bone, but it's the bone of the arm, so much larger and stronger), willow palm (per Villari--I call it the combat slap, but he also has a nose-mashing version which is really good), spear hand (not straight into the bony part of the face, of course--to soft targets like throat, armpit, eye), what Bob Orlando calls the hacksaw (grinding elbow esp. to ribs, but also neck/throat, even upper body), and the ridgehand (windup version to groin; driving version to jaw hinge, neck [carotid, esp], ribs, and as I learned from zDom, temple).

But that's just me. This is just a sample of what I teach instead of closed fist to hard targets. You may want to check with your Wing Chun group again, to see if I'm right or not.

 

[CuongNhuka]

You may want to check with your Wing Chun group again, to see if I'm right or not.

I'm going with what my Cuong Nhu Sensei told me. He is also training in Wing Chun, and is the reason I have "unofficial training" in Wing Chun. Then he showed me why that is. The first drill done in Wing Chun is one person continuesly punching, the other person doing a palm block (called Pac Sao). If you remove the puncher, the person doing the conitous block (called Pac Choi I believe) could be doing any thing from an arm/neck break (what is taught as a possible application) to a knee break or throw (what I just came up).

 

[Jimi]

I love the jab myself. I think its a great tool. In most street fights, bar fights I have seen or been in the jab has rarely been used a cleanly as boxers & kickboxers in the ring use it. When used in the street it should not be over used because I believe a street fight etc... is a bit more of an urgent matter than scoring in the ring. This is not to say that it can't be used effectively in a street fight, just that I personaly would not shuffle around near long enough to land the jab so consectutively like Suger Ray Leonard. I was taught that the jab is a great set up, it is the stinger, the feeler, the range finder, the lightning before the thunder so to speak. My jab speaks or even asks my opponent, where you at where you at where- THERE YOU ARE!!! If my jabs finds you or even better catches you still/flatfooted, heaven help you cause my cross, hook, cross Low kick followed by the kitchen sink probably will find you too. If I get caught by tradrockrats jabs I can predict that the all the other guns will fire at will full bore. (Hi Trad!) Lightning before thunder, speed before power is a general rule, not an absolute, but it certainly is a sound principle. I have seen fights end quickly with 1 haymaker and I have seen fights where a poor guy eats a dozen or so jabs before dumping the other guy on his head. As well trained & knowledgable as we can be, all of us can roll snake eyes & crap out. The jab is counted as the #1 strike in many hand combos for a good reason. Thanks for letting me chime in. PEACE JIMI

 

[tradrockrat]

jeez Jimi - you sound like someone I used to train with... lol Yeah the jab has always served as a great range finder for me, not to mention it keeps the opponent busy and distracted while I fire up the ole power strikes...

 

[Odin]

The jab is a wonderful tool, clearly one of the most effective and useful strikes in side the ring and the street, perfect for finding range, setting up a another attack or using to disguise one.

HOWEVER…

When MMA is involved it’s a bit of a grey area, some say its useless while others say it’s a valubale tool……a good example of how to use the jab in MMA would be to watch Tim Syliva fight.

But personally I wouldn’t use it that much and the reason for that is the same reason that the jab is good for…Range, if I am in range to catch a jab as soon as that fist touches my face I know im in range for a takedown, I'll happliy get jabed if I know that I will get the takedown.
As good as the jab is, its very rare that you will knock out a fighter with a lead hand jab and in a sport where it only takes one good power strike its not worth the risk.

An exception to that rule of course would be Tim syliva because of his size and the length of his lImbs he was able to keep fighters out of takedown range…or at least so far out of range that when a takedown was attempted it was easliy read because of the amount of distance a fighter had to cover inorder to grab his legs.