Use hay-maker to deal with jab or cross

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
If your opponent throws a

- right jab, you can throw a left "stiff arm hay-maker" clockwise and use your forearm to push his right punching arm to his left (your right).
- left cross, you can throw a right "stiff arm hay-maker" counter-clockwise and use your forearm to push his left punching arm to his right (your left).

Since you can interrupt your opponent's "straight" punch farther away from your head, it will be much safer for you.

What's your opinion on this "strategy"?
 

drop bear

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 23, 2014
Messages
20,822
Reaction score
5,696
Yeah. My coach throws the right when my jab becomes too obvious You don't have to block anything just step off line..
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,288
Reaction score
1,036
My opinion is that I'll jab you twice and still have time to duck your haymaker.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
10,419
Reaction score
3,450
If your opponent throws a

- right jab, you can throw a left "stiff arm hay-maker" clockwise and use your forearm to push his right punching arm to his left (your right).
- left cross, you can throw a right "stiff arm hay-maker" counter-clockwise and use your forearm to push his left punching arm to his right (your left).

Since you can interrupt your opponent's "straight" punch farther away from your head, it will be much safer for you.

What's your opinion on this "strategy"?
I don't like it. Jabs are fast, the angle of a haymaker is slower than the jab. I train long punches like the haymaker all the time and I wouldn't even risk that. If I'm going to use a haymaker to counter a jab then I'm going to slip the jab and land the haymaker. The only way the technique that you speak of will work is if you know the jab is coming or that the person has a slow jab.

The only way that I would even consider this being a good idea is if I'm not correctly visualizing the technique as it's describe. Other than that, you guys can go make a video of this technique and let me know how it works..
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
My opinion is that I'll jab you twice and still have time to duck your haymaker.
My hay-maker has no intention to hit you but to interrupt your punch. My hay-maker can be a very small circle like the spear circle in this clip. My hand can be closer to your face than you hand from your face.


In other words, you draw a cone in front of you. The small end is your shoulder. The large end is your fist. This cone should cover the space in front of you when your opponent uses straight punch (such as jab or cross) at you.

cone.jpg
 
Last edited:

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,711
Reaction score
8,326
Location
Maui
KFW, is your jab quicker than your hay-maker?
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
KFW, is your jab quicker than your hay-maker?
Your opponent's fist has to reach to your face to make his jab work. Your hay-maker only need to touch your opponent forearm to interrupt his punch (your hay-maker doesn't need to reach to his head). You fist may only need to travel half the distance compare to his jab fist needs to travel.

 
Last edited:

Buka

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
11,711
Reaction score
8,326
Location
Maui
I was picturing a hay-maker as a wider swinging strike. I see what you mean now.
 

Martial D

Senior Master
Joined
May 18, 2017
Messages
3,288
Reaction score
1,036
Your opponent's fist has to reach to your face to make his jab work. Your hay-maker only need to touch your opponent forearm to interrupt his punch (your hay-maker doesn't need to reach to his head). You fist may only need to travel half the distance compare to his jab fist needs to travel.


How is that a haymaker? That's a parry..sort of.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
How is that a haymaker? That's a parry..sort of.
When you write the number "1", you can write it as 3 feet long. You can also write it as 1 inch short. It's still "1". :)

Most of the time when you use parry, your arm will be bending. You start your hay-maker (or stiff arm parry) from the stiff arm "Chinese zombie guard".

Chang_zombie_guard.jpg


Chinese_zombie_1.jpg
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
10,419
Reaction score
3,450
My hay-maker has no intention to hit you but to interrupt your punch.
The problem with this is the distance that a haymaker has to travel. You may be describing something that isn't a haymaker.

Edit: I just saw your video and yes. What you are doing is not what many would call a haymaker. You are also not beating the jab with a haymaker. You are using a redirect with your left hand and attacking with your right. Totally different concept and mechanics. Too much going on with the technique to explain in detail, but it's definitely no where near a haymaker.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
but it's definitely no where near a haymaker.
This is why I may use the term "spear arm". The difference between the down parry and spear arm are:

- The downward parry is a downward circle with bending elbow.
- The spear arm is a downward circle and forward pressure with stiff arm.
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,292
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
Your opponent's fist has to reach to your face to make his jab work. Your hay-maker only need to touch your opponent forearm to interrupt his punch (your hay-maker doesn't need to reach to his head). You fist may only need to travel half the distance compare to his jab fist needs to travel.

Your terminology and definitions are different than what I know of as a haymaker.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
10,419
Reaction score
3,450
This is why I may use the term "spear arm". The difference between the down parry and spear arm are:

- The downward parry is a downward circle with bending elbow.
- The spear arm is a downward circle and forward pressure with stiff arm.
It's all good. The video cleared things up.
 

marques

Master Black Belt
Joined
Jun 7, 2015
Messages
1,187
Reaction score
380
Location
Essex, UK
If it works for you what can I say?
My likely tactics:
- Left (lead) hook, shoulder roll
- Right jab (=cross?), step aside

The issue, for me, using your tachnics are:
- I dont think I am fast enough to defend a left hook with a right haymaker
- I never throw a cross if I am not sure it lands, and if I see a defence coming (a left haymaker), it will change to something else. And my opponent can do the same.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
10,745
Reaction score
2,761
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
- I dont think I am fast enough to defend a left hook with a right haymaker
- I never throw a cross if I am not sure it lands, and if I see a defence coming (a left haymaker), it will change to something else. And my opponent can do the same.
- The right uppercut can be use to deal with a left hook. If your can use your right uppercut to extend your right arm between your opponent's head and his left arm (separate his left arm away from his head). You can then use your right arm to "over hook" or wrap his left arm.

- When you use hay-maker on your opponent's jab or cross, most of the time, he will borrow your force, spin his arm, and change his jab (or cross) into a hook (or hay-maker). If you can feel that, you can reverse your hay-maker direction and wrap his arm.

If you spin your arm and if your opponent also spins his arm with you into the same direction, his arm and your arm will never make any contact. But when one person spins his arm while the other person spins his arm in the "reverse" direction, the arm contact will occur, the arm wrapping can happen, and the clinch can be established.
 
Last edited:

punisher73

Senior Master
Joined
Mar 20, 2004
Messages
3,663
Reaction score
696
A "haymaker" is a wide looping roundhouse punch. By its nature it is not a small circle, the video shown does not show any haymakers to counter a jab. I am not discounting the technique shown in the video, just disagreeing that it is a haymaker that is being used.

What was being shown I have seen called a smothering punch/block.
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,292
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
Haymaker is a very violent and powerful punch.
A rear straight punch can be a haymaker
A hook punch can be a haymaker
An uppercut can be a haymaker
An overhand can be a haymaker
A bolo punch can be a haymaker
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
10,419
Reaction score
3,450
Haymaker is a very violent and powerful punch.
A rear straight punch can be a haymaker
A hook punch can be a haymaker
An uppercut can be a haymaker
An overhand can be a haymaker
A bolo punch can be a haymaker
Not in my book. I can throw a powerful punch without it being a haymaker.
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,292
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
merriam-webster Dictionary
haymaker
noun
: a powerful hit with the fist : a very hard punch


Websters New World College Dictionary
haymaker
noun
a powerful blow or strike with the fist, intended to cause a knockout


Collins English Dictionary
Haymaker
Noun
a powerful punch; often wild
A powerful blow often throw wildly; ...the match ended when a wild uppercut haymaker landed squarely on his jaw.
 
Top