Some help please!

[Tez3]

I'll explain first about the incident that happened tonight and then what I need help with if you don't mind.
After finishing with my Girl Guides tonight I went home and was just dishing up dinner when another Guide leader phoned me, she was with her girls in the Scout hut in the town next to us, about four miles away. The girls about ten of them aged 10-12 were terrified as was the leader because they had been threatened by some big teenage lads. It had started as a couple of young boys coming in and out of the door being annoying they'd then gone away and come back with some much older boys who had come into the meeting and threatened the leader saying they'd seen a woman throwing a young boy around and he was out to get them for it. The leader did the right things, kept calm didn't argue and tried to persuade him to leave. They did eventually. The leader called the police but as we are a rural area it can take ages for them to get anywhere and then only if there isn't a bigger incident somewhere else. That's why the leader called me to come until the police arrived.

I was crushed by Guide hugs when I arrived, they were all shaken but they know me and knew I'd sort lol. The police came and hopefully the situation will be resolved. Now, this is where I need help please, the other Guide leader would like me to come back next week and teach the girls some self defence etc. Now I'm used to teaching that but I don't think it's quite what is called for here, I think I need things that will help them feel safe and that is where I'm at a bit of a loss. The building, the scout hut, has a fire door at one end and the main door stays unlocked as the other fire door, it shouldn't be locked so that worries me as far as security goes, the other is with leaders who are actually very brave, she said that the lads would have only got to the girls though her bless her, but has no idea what to do ( makes her very brave). The girls don't want martial arts ( though one girl does TSD) they don't really want SD techniques and I don't like teaching them unless it can be practised and practised so I'd like something that gives the girls confidence, helps them feel safe ( though they do actually have to be safe!) but I'm at a bit of a loss. I could teach all the things I teach for women's SD but that is more involved obviously than just techniques. So, what can I do with them?

 

[Shai Hulud]

Hello again Tez,

If the gals don't want SD instruction, then I don't think trying to teach them would be very effective anyway even if you tried. I think that cooperation with the authorities would be the best course of action here - preferably filing a report for them to review and act on and not just call them up again the next time the lads come back. Other than that, standard safety procedures apply - try not to let the girls wander or travel alone, and keep the doors locked. It must have been a scary experience for them.

 

[Tez3]

Hello again Tez,

If the gals don't want SD instruction, then I don't think trying to teach them would be very effective anyway even if you tried. I think that cooperation with the authorities would be the best course of action here - preferably filing a report for them to review and act on and not just call them up again the next time the lads come back. Other than that, standard safety procedures apply - try not to let the girls wander or travel alone, and keep the doors locked. It must have been a scary experience for them.

Guiding has all sort of procedures in place for 'Safe place' so that aspect is fine. I'm sure the girls would love to learn some techniques but I don't teach just techniques to a class of non martial artists, I find it pointless. It give people a false sense of security because they know a few 'moves' which they will quickly forget if they don't practise.
We can't keep the doors locked which is one of my biggest concerns, the fire safety rules say it can't be locked. I'm pretty sure though that there is a type of lock that you can use which has a quick release from inside in case of fire.
What I need is some sort of safety plan like a fire plan that the leaders and girls can do, which I can sort but most of all I need something like a game perhaps, or a drill, something that calms the girls, gives them confidence that they can cope and generally helps them. It's not so much SD or martial arts but something else and I can't put my finger on it, that's my problem.

Between you and me though I really want to get my hands on those lads and teach them not to scare little girls, I can say that now I've retired, won't get sacked lol!

 

[donald1]

Maybe some persuasion? Could always learn just one coarse in self defense (maybe some of the basics)

Hopefully they will not need it but better to be safe than sorry

Maybe another thing to add, don't wander off alone (preferably would be safer to go with friends) and some type of cell phone available

 

[Tez3]

Maybe some persuasion? Could always learn just one coarse in self defense (maybe some of the basics)

Hopefully they will not need it but better to be safe than sorry

Maybe another thing to add, don't wander off alone (preferably would be safer to go with friends) and some type of cell phone available

When I teach self defence it covers all the things like awareness, recognition of violence, etc. What I need is a very specific thing just for this one situation. The girls all understand about wandering off and being with friends because they do it at school and they have sensible parents. The stuff I need to do with them is to make them feel safe in their building when they are doing Guides, that's why I'm stumped. I need them to understand how to behave in such a way that it makes them safe in this one situation. I'm scratching my head quite frankly. I think too that parents need reassuring. I'm not sure that 'Irene the cage fighter' roflmao reassures them or gives them more worries. I am experienced in security as well as TMA and SD but this one is an odd one.

 

[jezr74]

Maybe organize for the local police on patrol to add the guide hall to the route during activity times. The police presence may deter the lads from coming back.

As far as what to talk and teach the girls, your right in your current thinking, teach about situation awareness, maybe setup a buddy system so no one is ever by themselves or is easily accounted for. Techniques I find good for younger children is how to dead weight yourself in case someone was to grab you, things like that, not about striking but how to not comply.

Another option may be to designate a safe room which you can secure all the girls and lock the door to call the police. (obviously have a phone in that room) Put up some video surveillance signs, and\or some fake video cameras.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Between you and me though I really want to get my hands on those lads and teach them not to scare little girls, I can say that now I've retired, won't get sacked lol!

That should teach the berks!

 

[jks9199]

I think you're right; they don't really want hands on techniques. My guess -- and you're closer in many ways than I am -- is that they want two things. First, to feel safe again; second, and kind of interacting, to understand what happened, why it happened, and how to keep it from happening again.

A safe room, or tactics to create a safe zone, might be a good idea, as well as a discussion to understand what created the situation, and how they can reduce the odds of it happening again. Why were the original boys going in and out? Did they have any sort of business there? Can the door be secured during the meeting?

You might show them a couple of simple techniques, more as an empowerment exercise than any actual self defense training. Not to say teach them something useless, just that the emphasis would be more towards "see, you are in control & you do have power!" Along those lines, too, you might do something like we tend to do with rape victims, and let them "lead" the discussion, ask them if you can talk about it, etc. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I think the physical security of the place where they are meeting needs to be addressed first. Some how there needs to be a way for them to lock the door so that people cannot just come in off the street that are unwanted. I would also see if a trespassing sign or similar sign can be placed outside the meeting room so that potential jerk's hopefully move on. Maybe the guide leader can also arrange for a significant other or police to be around for a few meetings to ad as a deterrence. Then to help restore their confidence why not just teach them some thing very simple physically like a jab, cross or jab, elbow on focus mitts. Finally talk extensively about awareness, avoidance and moving around in a group to yet again ad as a deterrence. Just some thoughts.

 

[Tames D]

I think the problem has to be addessed head on. Someone (adult?) needs to contront these "Lads" and let it be known that what they are doing is not only unacceptable but will be dealt with in any manner necessary, including force.

 

[Buka]

Tough situation. I agree with Tames D. It might be time to network. There has to be somebody these young men will not mess with in that area, or surrounding that area. Maybe one of the parents, or friends of one of the parents, or somebody the parents know, or somebody in that area who has daughters, or someone respected (and feared) in that area. There's gotta' be somebody, just have to figure out who and hopefully be able to approach them. Usually, a word in the right ear is all it takes to discourage young men from being a-holes.

I wish you the best in this, it's such a pain in the butt.

 

[ballen0351]

Perhaps changing the meeting times so there just isnt one leader and a few girls? Maybe 2 groups meet at same time or s some of the parents should stay for the meetings so there are more adults around. In my opinion your waisting you time trying to teach kids something they dont want to learn. Or you hide in the bushes and wait then teach the boys a lesson they will never forget next time.
Usually fire code forbids doors from being locked since it not only keeps the trouble makers out but also fire dept staff and paramedics so you may not have much you can do about the doors

 

[WaterGal]

I think the physical security of the place where they are meeting needs to be addressed first. Some how there needs to be a way for them to lock the door so that people cannot just come in off the street that are unwanted.

Absolutely - this will solve the problem immediately and is very doable. You can buy door handles that lock people out but will spring open when someone on the inside tries to open them. They need to call a locksmith and get one of these installed, or if somebody's handy with tools they could probably do it themselves. What they're looking for would be called "panic hardware" or "crash bar" or something like that.

 

[Tez3]

Thank you everyone, it's helped sort my thoughts out on what to do next week. Still to put it on paper but much clearer now. Talking to parents, a couple of the girls were anxious, one couldn't sleep and the leader is still stressed. One parent and her daughter talked about it and it lead to a discussion of what's acceptable behaviour and what's not which was very good, something I'm going to take on board as well, about how groups of young people can behave and intimidate people even if they don't mean to. With the leader she had a case of 'what ifs' and was running scenarios through her head that could have happened. Other leaders in other groups are also worried about not knowing what to do.

It's something to bear in mind that because I'm used to violent and aggressive behaviour I can forget how shocking it is for many to be shouted and sworn at never mind actually threatened. I'm no braver than anyone else it's just that my training kicks in as will any police/security/military persons. Knowledge dispels fear so something else to work on! I think we will be doing some leader training soon on this subject. We have very little violence in our area that civvies are exposed to so it's a shock when it does happen. Anyway thanks again people. Invaluable help from MT as always!

 

[donald1]

Keep us informed on if it works out good
Best of luck

 

[jezr74]

Hope you get it sorted. Cowardly little punks.

 

[Brian King]

Address security of the building first, as has been suggested above.

Second, do some role playing with GOOD actors, to get the young folks and the leader used to their own reactions during stressful confrontations or possible confrontations, and to get them used to the idea of confrontations and the possible paths that they can take.

Third, teach them about the bodies reactions to violence and how to deal with them.

Fourth, encourage them to come up with their own solutions during the role playing drills, and talk them thru their solutions, the good and the bad of them. It will encourage them while educating them.

Fifth, have a couple of your soldier buddies around to talk to the problem youths. Often young men do not have good men around to learn from and to model after. Introducing them to a good man can often have positive outcomes. Perhaps the men can arrange to meet the youths now and then for man talks and if the time is the same as the other meeting- conflicts solved sort of.

Good luck
Brian King

 

[Zero]

Absolutely - this will solve the problem immediately and is very doable. You can buy door handles that lock people out but will spring open when someone on the inside tries to open them. They need to call a locksmith and get one of these installed, or if somebody's handy with tools they could probably do it themselves. What they're looking for would be called "panic hardware" or "crash bar" or something like that.

Yes, the budget should not require too much hopefully but think of all those school and community hall doors that have that bar handle going horizontally across the middle of the doors that engages/disengages the bolts at the top and bottom. The door stays locked but easily swings open when the bar pressed down with minimal resistance.

Also, am sure would be quit cheap, I wonder about a panic button the scout guide or someone senior could keep on them or close to hand. Such as like some elderly, or not so elderly, have that go straight to the local police station. Does the ability for that exist where you are? While there may still be an issue in response time, at least the wheels are set in motion fro ma simple press and this is a lot easier and quicker to do than trying to attempt via phone and when said punks may try to stop any call being made. It can also be triggered without the distraction of making a call so the leader can focus on the potential threat at hand and hopefully calming everyone down.

Unless the said older yob genuinely thought his little brother etc had been roughed up by the guides (that seems a complete load of BS), sounds like unfortunately a visit from one of the local judo heads etc that may share the guide hall or something of the like may be needed for a little education on what being a real man entails (which involves helping and not threatening women/girls/those smaller than you etc).

This is a really annoying thing to have happened.

 

[Vanessa]

I hear ya. I live in a big city and as a parent it worry me sick when my kid get into a taxi alone even on a short way home. But it's true, you cannot force someone to do something they don't like.

 

[Tez3]

Well, it's funny how one thing leads to another. I went down on Wednesday to do some 'self defence' work with them, I was prepared along with the other leaders to talk over what happened etc. for the first hour they making paper chains and cutting 'snowflakes' for a Christmas party they were organising for the Brownies. We all sat around the table cutting and sticking thinking they'd want to have a chat, not a bit of it! They were their happy normal selves! They chatted about X Factor (ugh lol) and other programmes, pop stars and all the things they usually do so we left it, there didn't seem any point in going over it if they were now settled and happy. For the last hour we did some techniques, not many because I'd rather not 'overload', we covered safety aspects and I showed them how to punch so they could hit the pads. Happy guides, they said they'd like to do a bit more next term which will be fine.
However the Ranger group, the older girls from 14 upward knew about the incident last week and that I was doing some things with the Guides and have asked me to come along and do a two hour session with them. It seems they also have an ulterior motive, one of them we found out this week is cutting herself because of bullying at school and a difficult family background ( it was noticed at school this week so school started the ball rolling), they reasoned that learning some self defence would help her. The Rangers more or less run themselves under the eye of an adult leader, they plan their own activities and trips. they have also arranged for a Girl Guide Peer Educator to come and talk to them!
So I now have a proper session to do with them, as they are older I'm going to include alcohol safety, a couple of them are off to university next year which is a whole different thing from our quiet rural living. I'm proud of the girls proactive approach to their Guiding sister though. In Guiding we have advisors to help on situations like self abuse so I will be getting all the help I need. The self harming isn't our problem to solve of course with but we feel we can be that 'safe space' where they can be themselves and not feel pressured which we hope will help while the professionals do their work.
Thank you for all your advice and help, I love martial artists!