Parent problem with children not grading.

[Tez3]

Excuse me but I really need to have a minor rant here and also see if others have had this problem!
On Saturday we have a grading for the children, the date was announced weeks ago, the children who were grading and their parents were informed by letter. We'd watched the children go through their katas etc and decided who was ready to try. In the following weeks the children have worked hard to learn their katas and get ready for the grading. We have an asthmatic boy who is really throwing his all into everything, sparring, SD work and kata, another lad is very slow and his work is never going to be 'perfect' but he tries his best and is doing very well, another boy has come from another style and has worked hard to learn our style.

Tonight I had to announce at the beginning of the lesson the grading may be delayed until the week after as our chief instructors mother is very ill and he's had to go down to Bristol to look after her and his father. That's five hours drive away. No problem though everyone understood except one mother who wasn't too happy. She was even more unhappy when I said well actually 'your daughter and her friend aren't grading so it won't affect you'. She went ballistic! started having a go at me in front of all the parents, well I'm used to irate people so did the usual calm polite thing, the upshot was her and her friend took their daughters out of the class and walked out "on principle"

Now these two girls have been with us a while they are green tag and green belt, however over the past year or more they have barely been in to train. The girls have forgotten what they knew and would barely grade at yellow belt if they took the grading now. They had been told this and but denied it when they were speaking to me. I explained this to the mothers, I said we'd watched them and it would be unfair to grade them just to fail. (and we knew they'd fail, it wouldn't be just because they'd done a bad grading, they really can't do it) It just didn't get through that the girls didn't know what they needed to, they insisted they did. They are now going to phone up the chief instructor and complain bitterly, just when he doesn't need more grief.

I could have said I suppose right sit there and watch but how bad would these girls (age 11 and 9) have felt not being able to do things properly in front of all the others. The younger girls was already having a tantrum as it was. After they'd gone a couple of the other mothers said that they would complain if they were allowed to grade and were given their belts as it made a mockery of their childrens efforts. Actually I agree with them but now I've been left feeling like I'm the baddie.

 

[jarrod]

sounds like you handled the situation as well as could be expected. the mothers who left want a belt factory, & as the other parents told you, that would undermine the efforts of all the other children.

jf

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Ditto on what Jarrod said.

 

[shihansmurf]

I think you handled an uncomfortable situation very well and with what sounds like a great deal of restraint. The parents of the children involved are the exact reason I don't teach kids. I have a profound amount of respect for y'all that do, but I know that I don't have the requisite patients to tolerate that sort of behavior from a parent. Wonderfull example she set for them.

Sorry that you lost a couple of students, though. Soungs like she would be more satisfied with a belt factory.

Mark

 

[Josh Oakley]

I've been there, man. I've had to deal with parents who had kids who were at purple belt for over a year (A purple belt can often advance to blue in 4-6 months). I had to find a diplomatic way to show them that belt rank is not equivalent to time in. Actually, I had to be a little underhanded and tell them if a blue belt is what they really want I'll buy them one and they won't even have to test. Naturally, they blew up and almost took their kids out right there.

Then I said, look, if you blew up about that, then you obviously understand that a belt rank is a measure of skill, so what is the real frustration, since it's obviously not about the belt. The parents relayed that the kids should have been at the level of skill by now, and the parents knew that their kid was not ready to test, and that was their source of frustration. Then I suggested we work as a team to tackle this challenge. I reminded them that I see them a maximum of 5 hours a week, and they see their children a lot more than me. I can show them skills and drills to get them where they need to be to test, but I can't make the kids practice, and I'm not going to call them at home to remind them, because I have other things on my plate, and it's more invasive than a teacher should be.

Long story short, the parents and I worked together to help the kids practice more at home, and in only a month, they were ready to test. Just to eliminate bias, I had my boss test them, and they passed with flying colors. Now these kids are incredibly dedicated students, and the parents are some of my strongest allies in the dojo parent circle.

Don't get me wrong, you probably did the best you could do with these people, but for most people they really want what's best for their kids, and if they can be brought to reason, rather than acting from emotion )as these parents obviously did), you'll be able to keep your students longer.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Tonight I had to announce at the beginning of the lesson the grading may be delayed until the week after as our chief instructors mother is very ill and he's had to go down to Bristol to look after her and his father. That's five hours drive away. No problem though everyone understood except one mother who wasn't too happy. She was even more unhappy when I said well actually 'your daughter and her friend aren't grading so it won't affect you'. She went ballistic! started having a go at me in front of all the parents, well I'm used to irate people so did the usual calm polite thing, the upshot was her and her friend took their daughters out of the class and walked out "on principle."

Out for good? Or just out to make a statement in the moment? If she left to teach you a lesson, she's really only punishing her kid, which is rather pathetic.

Agreed you handled it well, very well.

I had a parallel situation back in 2000. I had taken time off training to go to teachers' college. My Sensei called me at school one morning to let me know his mom had passed. He and his brother have been friends and teachers for years, and of course I offered to come in and help cover the kids' classes in their absence. That night I was suited up with a couple of other senior kyu -- many of the parents had known me for years -- while the brothers came in wearing street clothes.

They gently explained to the kids and parents in attendance that there had been a death in the family, and they would be away for several days. With no dans present, upcoming gradings would be postponed. We operate in seasonal terms through a community centre, so that would have meant a wait of perhaps four weeks. BTW -- the grading fee is $10 for belt and the certificate, charged only once.

The children were respectful and appreciative of being included in a fairly adult conversation. The parents were obviously sorry to hear of the brothers' loss.

One parent, however, pulled me aside. "Does this mean my daughter has to wait for her grading? That's not fair." I quietly edged her from the crowd and said, "Sensei just explained there was a death in the family. The person who died was his mother. There is no other black belt available to grade your daughter, and I think if you explain all this carefully to her, she will understand this. I believe our thoughts as members of this dojo should be with the brothers and their family." I should have left that last bit out, but I tend to be indignant when the explaining the obvious to an adult.

Alas, Tez3, I do not have your diplomatic touch.

 

[myusername]

Reads to me that you handled that situation perfectly Tez. You had the restraint and compassion not to ask those girls to do their syllabus badly in front of their parents and peers as an example to demonstrate your point of view. It is a pity that the mother did not have the same level of restraint and compassion for her girls to resist the urge to embarrass them in front of their friends and instructor and ultimately punish them by keeping them away from class. The woman also sounds a tad self centred for having an issue with your chief instructor having to travel to Bristol to look after his sick mother. What sort of person makes a fuss about that??

The problem is people like her treating martial arts as a commodity. People have such an over blown sense of self entitlement nowadays! From your story it sounds like this woman percieves that she has "hired" you to make her daughters black belts and is annoyed that you are not delivering the goods in the expected time frame! She is probably treating you with the same self righteous anger that she would for a pizza delivery boy who failed to deliver her pizza within the time she was quoted by the person taking her order! I am making assumptions of course, but the woman is probably a bit of a git.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Tez sounds like you handled things well.

You can't please everyone however your wording here:

She was even more unhappy when I said well actually 'your daughter and her friend aren't grading so it won't affect you'

I can understand a misunderstanding on the mother's part resulting in her anger towards you.

In the end Based on your intentions I think you made the right call.

 

[Phoenix44]

Look, what kind of person has so little compassion that she's angry because someone has to take care of his sick mother? And what kind of lesson is she giving her children? To be selfish?

You handled it perfectly well, and I wouldn't sweat it. If they quit, so it goes. You don't have to lower yourself to their level.

Having said that, there may have been one thing that could have averted the "scene."

Obviously you send letters to those students who are grading, but what about students who've been around awhile but are NOT up to par? Do you just assume, "Well, they haven't received a letter, so they must know they're not grading"?

Perhaps a month or two ago, one of the instructors could have met with the kids and parents, to the effect that, "There will be a grading in December. In order to be ready for grading, Janey will need to come to class at least twice per week, she has to know kata 1, 2, and 3, she has to come to sparring class, and she has to know all the techniques on the list posted on the wall. Right now, you aren't ready, because you don't know kata 3 very well, you haven't been coming to class much, and you still don't know that hook punch defense. I need to see you in sparring class. I'll be checking up on you, and it will be up to you. If Janey doesn't accomplish all these things by the end of November, then she won't be grading in December, and we'll try again in February."

They'd still be upset if they're not ready, but at least you made it very clear, and you could point out that they did not accomplish what you discussed. At least then it's "fair," which is something kids can understand. Or, maybe the parents would get the message and start bringing them to class and practicing with the kids at home.

Nothing makes parents angrier than when it appears that other kids are leapfrogging over their kids, and they don't know exactly why.

 

[grydth]

This sort of stupid parent behavior seems to occur everywhere. They should ask themselves - not the sensei - what they are hoping to gain for their children.

I am a parent of two girls, ages 10 and 13, who have been pretty successful during years of goju ryu karate. But even good students of all ages sometimes have difficulty. The Shihan has approached me on a couple of occasions indicating a girl may not be ready to test when we had previously thought. He seemed amazed the first time when I said we'd work on it at home, maybe take an extra class and just test whenever in the future. To this I was told other parents make an issue over delayed promotion. I said my feeling was I don't care what color belt they have; I only care that they become able to defend themselves, their family and their country. Belt color's got nothing to do with that.... and that is ALL I care about, that's why we spend the time and money there..... (and as to the excellent Shihan Trotman, I am pleased to say we are getting that quality instruction)

So parents should consider what they truly want for their children: to become a powerful and confident fighter, or be a defenseless child with some meaningless fabrics.

 

[hkfuie]

What I want to know is, how come I only have 1 or 2 of those little green box thingies. Other people have more rep box thingies than I do and I demand to WHY I am being cheated of box thingies. I know I haven't posted alot, but I have been a member for a long time, just lurking around. I've put my time in and I want to know who I need to talk to to get box thingies!!!!

 

[bluekey88]

You handled it fine. Seriously, as has been said, there's no pleasing some people.

We just lost a student this week because he did no tplace high enough at our last tournament the other week. He's a good kid. Works very hard. Could make a fine BB some day, but he's not exactly loaded with a ton of natural talent. He was in a bracket with two young ladies who are the stars of our comp[etition team and who have worked suyper hard for YEARS to compete and do well at a national level. He was simply not in a class to beat them...them's the breaks.

It's a shame, he's gonna lose out because Mom has an ego problem.

Peace,
Erik

 

[newy085]

Yeah im with everyone else here. Can't beleive the way some people react, must think that the universe revolves around them. Makes you wonder what type of an example they are setting for their kids, and also explains some of the problem we are seeing in younger kids these days.

 

[IcemanSK]

I feel your pain, Tez. You did the right thing & you did it well.


Helicopter parents, as you can see, really worry about perceived fairness to their child. I've not yet seen an extreme case as you have mentioned, however. An instructor's family emergency should bring about a level of grace on her part.

 

[AMP-RYU]

Well first off this is a problem everywhere, in my school as well, nothing you can really do about it other than what your doing. In joining M.A. the first thing taught is respect and your told of belt testing...if someone wants to test they will be there if not, hey maybe they will catch it next time. Dont modify your schedule to work around them, this shows weakness, next they will be wanting free classes because they can't afford class then your school closes. Just my opinion

 

[Lisa]

Tez, remember there is at least one in every crowd. You did the right thing. Parents love their children and want them to succeed, unfortunately they sometimes want it more then the child. Kudos to you for dealing with it so well.

What I want to know is, how come I only have 1 or 2 of those little green box thingies. Other people have more rep box thingies than I do and I demand to WHY I am being cheated of box thingies. I know I haven't posted alot, but I have been a member for a long time, just lurking around. I've put my time in and I want to know who I need to talk to to get box thingies!!!!

This made me laugh! Talk to the Gawd Emporer, he and only he, has the magical power! :lfao:

 

[Tez3]

Poor hkfuie! I think you should have them too!!

to be honest I think the parents were trying to pull a fast one. WE have to set our dates for grading when we can and when we think the children will be ready as i work shifts and we have other commitments to the club as we have adult fighters to need cornering at shows etc plus our own family and personal commitments, so we decided on the date way back in october ( not a perfect date as I'm coming off a night shift to do the grading, whichever Saturday it will be) At the end of October I'd gone away for a break and while I was away my instructor told everyone who was grading and he told those who weren't. I think these parents were choosing to ignore that and were going to turn up anyway thinking they wouldn't be turned away.

I was on my own last nght so when I said it wouldn't affect them as they weren't grading it got through to them they wouldn't be able to do that, I said they'd been told but they denied it saying they'd taken the fact they were grading from the notice that gave the time of the grading! I suspect they were going to play my instructor and I off against each other which I think upsets me as much as anything.

I did think about going in the back and bringing out a couple of belts and saying there you go then, have the but I bit my tongue instead, wish i hadn't but you've got to do the best thing really for everyone. Whether they have gone for good or not i don't know, time may tell but as they didn't come in very often anyway it would be hard to tell whether they are making a point about staying away lol!

Thanks for all your support, I felt very lonely last night! The rest of the parents were very sympathic giving good wishes for our instructors mum etc, we have some good kids and parents thank goodness who make up for the conniving awful ones!!

 

[SA_BJJ]

Well, at the end of the day the decision is yours and yours alone as to who tests and who doesnt test. If someone progresses through a belt rank in 2 months and the next person progresses through the same belt rank in 8 months well it is decided that the first individual was ready as in the eyes of the instructor.
If we start letting parents dictate when their kids test we will have a country of 6 month blackbelts.

Have their kids join BJJ...They will start out at white...if they are 5 they will not even be eligible for yellow (which is a junior belt collor in BJJ) until they are 7. Cant be a blue belt until you are at least 16. So if one were to spend 11 years in the sport joining at age 5 they would only be at belt numero dos at 11 yrs.

 

[BrandonLucas]

I was actually having this exact same discussion with my parents last night over dinner.

It is becoming an increasing issue with parents who want to micro-manage every aspect of their child's life. Now, as Josh pointed out earlier, most of the time, parents micro-manage simply because they want what's best for their child, and often get frustrated when things outside of their control stop their child from advancing as they think they should.

And I can understand their frustration. I kind of relate it to when an infant starts trying to crawl, walk, etc...my child may start walking by 10 months, where another couple's child may start walking by 12 or 13 months. Does that make my child better? (Of course I would say yes, but being realistic...) No.

Something else to consider...what happens when 2 or more children that are friends start taking the martial art at the same time? They all think that they should advance together. But, what parents sometimes don't take into consideration is that rank isn't earned on the sole basis of time, but rather a combination of time, skill, maturity, understanding, and physicallity, not necessarily in that order.

Many parents tend to think of a martial arts school in the same light they would think of an academic school. In many ways, they are similar and the same, but I think where they get off track is that kids that are enrolled in kindergarten together tend to go to the 1st grade together, unless there is a significant learning issue.

And, in a way, a martial arts school is similar in this aspect. White belt can be viewed as kindergarten, and the next belt up would be like advancing to the 1st grade. But, what they're often looking at is simply the time spent in that particular rank, rather than whether the material has been learned to the satisifaction of the instructor. And this tends to be the case for lower ranks in younger children...parents often view white belt as the "naptime, recess, graham-cracker" rank, and often think that simply showing up to class should be enough to advance to the next rank.

And sometimes, simply showing up isn't even considered...some parents can even think that simply enrolling their child at a certain time and showing up for 2 classes should advance them to the next rank.

Something that we were discussing last night was to provide parents with the information of the requirements for testing...sure, there should be a minimum of classes attended, but there's more to consider when making the decision...so one possiblity is involving the parents more in what's expected of their children when they enroll. (Not that this hasn't already been done...I'm just throwing this out there). If the parents know what to look for in a way, they would be less likely to be upset. The other side to that coin is that if the parent feels that their child is ready, and you as the instructor do not, then the parent needs to know that the ultimate decision is in your hands as to whether or not the child is eligable.

The main thing out of all of this is that the parents need to understand that the instructor is the one with the final say in who tests and who doesn't. If the parents are not ok with this, then the child doesn't need to enroll in classes.

Also, it should be noted that the age of the child can play a huge factor in how the parent is going to react to being told their child may not be elligble for testing. Younger children have a harder time understanding this, and as a result, the parents are going to be defensive, and not receptive to reason. So another possibility to consider is how young the children should be allowed to start and advance.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I was actually having this exact same discussion with my parents last night over dinner.

It is becoming an increasing issue with parents who want to micro-manage every aspect of their child's life. Now, as Josh pointed out earlier, most of the time, parents micro-manage simply because they want what's best for their child, and often get frustrated when things outside of their control stop their child from advancing as they think they should.

And I can understand their frustration. I kind of relate it to when an infant starts trying to crawl, walk, etc...my child may start walking by 10 months, where another couple's child may start walking by 12 or 13 months. Does that make my child better? (Of course I would say yes, but being realistic...) No.

Something else to consider...what happens when 2 or more children that are friends start taking the martial art at the same time? They all think that they should advance together. But, what parents sometimes don't take into consideration is that rank isn't earned on the sole basis of time, but rather a combination of time, skill, maturity, understanding, and physicallity, not necessarily in that order.

Many parents tend to think of a martial arts school in the same light they would think of an academic school. In many ways, they are similar and the same, but I think where they get off track is that kids that are enrolled in kindergarten together tend to go to the 1st grade together, unless there is a significant learning issue.

And, in a way, a martial arts school is similar in this aspect. White belt can be viewed as kindergarten, and the next belt up would be like advancing to the 1st grade. But, what they're often looking at is simply the time spent in that particular rank, rather than whether the material has been learned to the satisifaction of the instructor. And this tends to be the case for lower ranks in younger children...parents often view white belt as the "naptime, recess, graham-cracker" rank, and often think that simply showing up to class should be enough to advance to the next rank.

And sometimes, simply showing up isn't even considered...some parents can even think that simply enrolling their child at a certain time and showing up for 2 classes should advance them to the next rank.

Something that we were discussing last night was to provide parents with the information of the requirements for testing...sure, there should be a minimum of classes attended, but there's more to consider when making the decision...so one possiblity is involving the parents more in what's expected of their children when they enroll. (Not that this hasn't already been done...I'm just throwing this out there). If the parents know what to look for in a way, they would be less likely to be upset. The other side to that coin is that if the parent feels that their child is ready, and you as the instructor do not, then the parent needs to know that the ultimate decision is in your hands as to whether or not the child is eligable.

The main thing out of all of this is that the parents need to understand that the instructor is the one with the final say in who tests and who doesn't. If the parents are not ok with this, then the child doesn't need to enroll in classes.

Also, it should be noted that the age of the child can play a huge factor in how the parent is going to react to being told their child may not be elligble for testing. Younger children have a harder time understanding this, and as a result, the parents are going to be defensive, and not receptive to reason. So another possibility to consider is how young the children should be allowed to start and advance.

Very good post.