Shotokan for self defence.

[ShotoNoob]

Does traditional Karate training not use focus mitts?

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Not in ancient Okinawa. So why use them now? I absolutely hate focus mitts. Hate them, Hate them, Hate them. They are designed for athletic training. Traditional karate is designed for mental training. Chuck the focus mitts.....
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People use this stuff instead of thinking. That's the problem.... focus mitts are 'smart' for boxers, 'dumb' for karate.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Does traditional Karate training not use focus mitts?

HEADNOTE: HERE'S LITTLE DEBBIE, I WARNED YA!
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SOMEONE POST THE JAPANESE KARATE WORD FOR BOARDBREAKING:
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The following post is Shotokan karate form[IMO], you know the Japanese karate so many complain about as "impractical."

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So the lesson is presented in the traditional karate curriculum. Can the karate practitioner take the concept and study & learn & apply that lesson? For all it's crummy characteristics, you can't say Shotokan karate, the most widespread karate style out there, doesn't present the lesson & working objective to developing the capability to disable your opponent decisively....
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My august contribution to the ant-grappling T....
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BTW: the purpose of the warmup and dry runs when Debbie does the front kick break, is to develop that little-talked about traditional karate mental discipline called KIME.
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Take that Matt Thorton &Co. Take that, focus mitt user....
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EDIT: Debbie's head on the punch break is proper form....

 

[RafaChan]

Fighters in my experience who are any good do not focus on the award winning finish. They focus on being in a position to throw strikes that limits their chance of limiting strikes.

So my fisty punches may not be fight ending super weapons but I can get them on target against guys who have pretty competent hands.

And that is the trick.

IMHO too much of a boxer oriented/condiotioned view, specially when we are talking about what you can do and happen at your SD in those street fights.

A deceptive and direct front kick - mae geri with the right kime and tech performation its pretty much what will be neutralizing a guy coming to attack you with his flurry of strikes in a motion that will serve even the most fragile lady (edit:even little debbie). Ive posted a vídeo and a story earlier that can confirms the said kick being ''the award winning fish'' or the ''fight ending super weapon''. And im not even talking about what i have seen for myself IRL.

Trust too much only on your fists and your boxing skills and you might get caught by surprise by someone that can use some ''finisher'' cantrips that you might didnt expect coz of your hard boxing conditioning.

Edit: Shoto, this kind of training of breaking stuffs that was core in all traditionl karate its tameshiwari. And pretty much is what certifies me that im able to crush someones throat (without having to do it ofc) when i see what my shihon nukite did with that coconut surface.

Thats the part when the student ask the máster what he will do with the technique and the máster replies: What the technique will do with you?

Really. I think most people doesnt deserve to know or are not mentally prepared to learn some things regarding tradicional karate. Most times i feel some stuff its better served hided inside some cheap mysticism.

 

[ShotoNoob]

ShotoNoob, I understand where you're coming from and you do touch upon an important point. Many in the practical combative karate crowd do overlook many of the mental/psychological aspects of "Traditional" karate. They do so because either they are following the dogma that they have heard about what is effective or they have researched Shotokan's history and discovered that these elements were bolted on in the 1940s and 50s as a means of culturally hijacking an Okinawan fighting art with Chinese roots.

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GOOD REPLY. But you & K-Man are too hard on faulting the Japanese Karates. Modern Shotokan, practiced to traditional standards is very good. Okinawan karate is more sophisticated. It's that simple.

But we part ways at your belief that the mental dimension of traditional karate will win your battles for you.

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Yeah, and then you neither practicing Shotokan or any Okinawan karate to traditional standards.
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Good luck with that.....

 

[ShotoNoob]

...
However, just because these methods are old doesn't make them better than modern training techniques to combat adrenaline dump. Nor can they be seen as superior to the mental dimension of modern athletic training. (Unless the person comparing is an Olympic athlete and a zen master).

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YOu are right, older-alone doesn't make them better. What makes them better was the fact the Master's (put in the intelligent time & study) understood the human potential and how best to tap into same, with martial application....
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Physical science of sports has advanced. No question. Yet sports science is centered on physiological processes... Moreover, doing basic conditioning exercises like push ups, sit ups, squat thrusts, running in place, with some chinese yoga exercises mixed will take you very, very far. Want to make a study of that or just grind them out? Got me in superlative shape without any $69.99 CDs.

Furthermore, mindset has been much discussed by the self defense focused karateka, as a determining factor in the outcome of a violent confrontation. Despite this not many seem to place an emphasis on the use of kata for visualisation and mental exercise, though most mention other methods.

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the thrust of kata is not visualization. the thrust of kata is internal mental development that then powers a heightened sense when one needs to visualize Kata is the under appreciated marital exercise. Kata is a mental exercise, not a physical one.... The physical form you observe is the expression of a mental discipline process....

But we part ways at your belief that the mental dimension of traditional karate will win your battles for you.

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Good luck with that....

 

[ShotoNoob]

...IMO i think when Shoto stated this hes pretty much saying that when (using your mind) you makes your body ''works as a coordinated unit which then extends strength into the technique for power'', that way you are achieving a big part of that said mental dimension and mental discipline.

That is the type of conditioning that makes you surpass and win a bigger enemy that doesnt posses any conditioning on that dimension and have worked only on the physical aspect of the conditioning.

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NOW we are seeing why Shotokan karate, with all its faults, drawbacks, over-emphasis on aggression, physicality, is so very effective compared to Matt Thorton /athletics. the Mind is drawing & channeling the internal & external strength of the whole body and projecting same into the technique. This is a conscious process, though hidden & internal....
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Go Little Debbie, GO!

 

[ShotoNoob]

strong kime

 

[ShotoNoob]

IMHO too much of a boxer oriented/condiotioned view, specially when we are talking about what you can do and happen at your SD in those street fights.

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The boxer method of athletics is workable & very good in it's own right. It's faster & easier to learn. The boxer does not carry the mental discipline to do the precise exacting, totally controlled technique of true traditional karate. Because karate, it's from the mind....
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Postnote: the reactions and instincts learning by athletics are valuable SD skills. They can not stand against the mental discipline of traditional Shotokan.

 

[ShotoNoob]

...If you doesnt dedicate a part of your training on that you are missing a big part of an art... thats why shoto said that shotokan practitioners limited by that detrimental will result in failure....

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And yes, because of the physical form of Shotokan as a training karate, as opposed to a more jutsu karate, as well as other attributes such as over-tense, rigid, aggressive, full range of motion, simplified & large physical movements, regurgitating these attributes physically alone makes [physical] Shotokan very vulnerable in actual practice.
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Yet without the mental component, what I just described is not Shotokan karate proper....

 

[ShotoNoob]

Does traditional Karate training not use focus mitts?

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The better question is identify the deficiency in the TKD / TSD poomse/ hyung as performed by "Tiger KIM Academy."

 

[ShotoNoob]

...Shotokan and other forms of karate for SD its highly underestimated and IMO theres no one to blame by that. If the majority of students, instructors and most associations aim for the sports and physicalty conditioning i would just let them alone, and if i train with them sometimes i keep only whats good for me, the rest of what doesnt interest me i wont be focusing on my own training. Like i told in before the quest must be personnal. The ideal training that few people are searching doesnt end in the dojo. Theres really a LOT of gap that we have to fill by yourselves if we wanna apply what we developed IRL scenarios. Ofc competent instructors always help but theres a limit for that help extent, some of the times we must have to go deeper and seek in other directions by ourselves applying the lot of things we are seeing for our own particular world and limits.

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Agreed.

 

[ShotoNoob]

Out of my curiosity could you be more specific on that please?

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You have two questions here.
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On the Shotokan body mechanics. Shotokan tends to train large body rotation (around the waist & torso) in striking technique. Shotokan also tend to emphasize exaggerated mobility in closing the distance over large spaces. I prefer to rely more on internal body contractions for power. I prefer to position deliberately rather than leap or spring forward, in & out.

Other curiosity... I see you showed taikyoku shodan in one of your vids. I know superficially that kata was a more easier reading of heian shodan developed by master Gichin. Here the shotokan white belts learn only heian/pinan shodan. Personally i dont like taikyoku and i wanna know your opinion on that. TIA.

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Yeah, the K-Man crowd dumps on Taikyoku. That's why I put up Little Debbie breaking the boards with Taikyoku kata technique. Get it?

 

[ShotoNoob]

Out of my curiosity could you be more specific on that please?


Other curiosity... I see you showed taikyoku shodan in one of your vids. I know superficially that kata was a more easier reading of heian shodan developed by master Gichin. Here the shotokan white belts learn only heian/pinan shodan. Personally i dont like taikyoku and i wanna know your opinion on that. TIA.

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My kumite style tends to be very IPPON KUMITE'Y, very TAIKYOKU KATA'Y. but of course there is mind/body unity behind that...

 

[ShotoNoob]

...Other curiosity... I see you showed taikyoku shodan in one of your vids. I know superficially that kata was a more easier reading of heian shodan developed by master Gichin. Here the shotokan white belts learn only heian/pinan shodan. Personally i dont like taikyoku and i wanna know your opinion on that. TIA.

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Some Okinawan Karate Master said (TMU), that mastering the Pinan (Heian) kata would provide all the martial capability one would need. In principle I agree with that.
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Isolating the Taikyoku kata out affords a better foundation.... along the lines of mental discipline....
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Good luck with that (with focus mitts--really?????)

 

[ShotoNoob]

Out of my curiosity could you be more specific on that please?
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Other curiosity... I see you showed taikyoku shodan in one of your vids. I know superficially that kata was a more easier reading of heian shodan developed by master Gichin. Here the shotokan white belts learn only heian/pinan shodan. Personally i dont like taikyoku and i wanna know your opinion on that. TIA.

Here's Ronda Rousey, a Top MMA competitor doing the conventional boxing MMA striking:

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Traditional karate conditioning does the same situps, etc. Hard to improve on calisthenics, IMO.
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the traditional karate key to beating a Ronda Rousey (type fighter) is Taikyoku kata. With Mind / body unity powered by KIME, very, very strong KIME, I'm going to do what?
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Punch (straight punch) right through that hands up guard right into her face knocking out all her teeth, blood dribbling out of her mouth and down all over the floor. Uggelly.... traditional karate uglellly....
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EDIT: not only is she going to look silly, the marital effect with be, upon my 1st strike, a combination of mental shock & physical trauma / pain. Perfectly vulnerable to follow on strike(s), compromised in her mental ability to mount a defense.
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MMA competitors, good luck with that....

 

[ShotoNoob]

Under KIME law, as soon as she flys that left jab out there, she's traditional karate DONE.
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And you guys laughed @ my little debbie YT vid. Shame Shame...

 

[DaveB]

ShotoNoob, I'm glad that you are happy with your art and your training and the strange world you inhabit .

I look forward to seeing some of these non-physically trained karateka thinking (dreaming?) their way to victory against the many inferior combat sports fighters and their obviously flawed tested and proven training methods.

Good luck with that! )

 

[ShotoNoob]

ShotoNoob, I'm glad that you are happy with your art and your training and the strange world you inhabit .

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It's traditional karate. done right.

I look forward to seeing some of these non-physically trained karateka thinking (dreaming?) their way to victory against the many inferior combat sports fighters and their obviously flawed tested and proven training methods.

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you mean you want these guys coming to your school to train commercially....

Good luck with that! )

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Good luck with paying the bills with that....

 

[Buka38 5]

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[tshadowchaser]

It has been a few years since I last faced a Shotokan master but if my memory serves me right the only mental attitude they had was punch someone in the face as hard as they could or kick someone in the chest as hard as they could. They did not dwell on the metal side of things other than hard training and learning to beat arms ( not all but many beat arms). They did not study inner strength through meditation but by getting in the class and beating they hell out of each other every night.
Where they better of worse than the guy on the street in a street fight? Some where some failed miserably but at least they had some idea how to defend against a punch or kick and knew how to return the same