Refugees

[Big Don]

What is your school's policy on refugees, those who, for whatever reason have left their original teacher and are looking for a new dojo, in the same style? (Off question: Is style really the right word? Somehow it seems inadequate.)
At what point should you ask your (soon to be) former teacher for a letter of release? Or should you? How much do you have to prove before being promoted? What are hard RULES, and what are just polite guidelines?

 

[tshadowchaser]

When i left my first style I told the instructor I was moving and would be studying a new style in my new home town. I also asked permission of the new instructor to be accepted as a beginning student, letting him know why i was leaving my old school and style.
If a student came to me from the system I studied and wanted to train with me and not his current instructor I would want to know why. I would then talk to the other instructor and get his impression of the student and find out if there had been any difficulties with the student and if he knew the student wanted to change instructors. I might have to think on it a while before accepting the student.

 

[theletch1]

When I made my change it was from kempo to aikido and I stayed in the same geographical area. The conversation with the new instructor really didn't have to be too in depth as my former instructor had garnered a reputation as being more cult leader than MA instructor. My new instructor accepted me as a new student (beginner) without judgment. An odd situation compared to what I think you're really asking, Don, but that's how it happened to me. I do know that when we get a new student from any of the respectable schools in the area that the instructor will feel out the student (as I'm sure he did with me even in my situation) and if anything seems amiss he'll make unofficial contact with the last instructor to see what happened. Thus far we haven't had any of the old instructors report that the "new guy" was a problem. Generally it's just a matter of out growing a style. By that I don't mean to say that the student has mastered the style but rather that what they want from a style has changed.

MA is a business, when you get right down to it. Each style is a different product. Does an instructor have a right to know what happened at the last school? Unless it was something illegal, probably not. What you're looking for is professional courtesy I think.

 

[stickarts]

I wouldn't say that I have an official policy. I will teach anyone who comes to me with honest and good intentions. As I get to know them I see where their experience level is and I take it from there. I do ask every student what previous experience they have and will ask more detailed questions if I think I need to know more details.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

I may be in this situation very soon. A rift was created by me taking interest in a student. (which happens to be instructors step daughter). Without getting into the story, (because there are 3 sides to it. His, mine, and hers) I have noticed he now will not judge anything I do fairly. Also I am pretty much "forbidden" to speak to the girl. Yeah its a situation I did not intend, but it happened.

So now because of this rift I may look for another instructor. My friendship with her means a lot to me and to be "forbidden" to talk to her (he monitors her text messages, has detailed billing on her phone and will not allow her to pay for her own plan...also has people watching her to make sure i don't "meet" her outside of class) just is plain wrong in my opinion. Now he looks down on me and refuses to listen to anything. This rift will likely give me a bad recommendation from him if another school contacts him.

I want to train but should it be at the expense of my friendship. I don't believe it should. She is old enough to make her own decisions.

He also has been known to get very mad in the past for others going to different teachers.

 

[Nolerama]

I may be in this situation very soon. A rift was created by me taking interest in a student. (which happens to be instructors step daughter). Without getting into the story, (because there are 3 sides to it. His, mine, and hers) I have noticed he now will not judge anything I do fairly. Also I am pretty much "forbidden" to speak to the girl. Yeah its a situation I did not intend, but it happened.

So now because of this rift I may look for another instructor. My friendship with her means a lot to me and to be "forbidden" to talk to her (he monitors her text messages, has detailed billing on her phone and will not allow her to pay for her own plan...also has people watching her to make sure i don't "meet" her outside of class) just is plain wrong in my opinion. Now he looks down on me and refuses to listen to anything. This rift will likely give me a bad recommendation from him if another school contacts him.

I want to train but should it be at the expense of my friendship. I don't believe it should. She is old enough to make her own decisions.

He also has been known to get very mad in the past for others going to different teachers.

It sounds like your instructor might be a little insecure. Maybe talk it out with him?

 

[Empty Hands]

My school head does it on a case-by-case basis. Previous students that take a long absence almost always come back at their old rank, even if they have to re-learn with the white belts. Other students from other disciplines or other kenpo schools generally start at white again, although some are involved in teaching and may have a "shadow" rank depending on their skill.

As for a "letter of release" or permission from your previous instructor, I have never heard of such a thing. We are all free adults, and don't need our instructor's permission to pursue martial arts elsewhere.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

It sounds like your instructor might be a little insecure. Maybe talk it out with him?

I've been a student of his for a long time. 9 years. 4 year layoff. I've tried talking it through with him. He will not listen to anything I have to say. So I quit trying. He said if i don't stop contact with her I may not be able to return. In that case I would have to find another instructor and I know I would get a bad report. However I really don't care. I've lost a lot of respect because of the fact he fails to listen to what I have to say and thinks he is always right about every situation. The rift is also because I respect him as a martial artist but not as a person.

 

[Nolerama]

I've been a student of his for a long time. 9 years. 4 year layoff. I've tried talking it through with him. He will not listen to anything I have to say. So I quit trying. He said if i don't stop contact with her I may not be able to return. In that case I would have to find another instructor and I know I would get a bad report. However I really don't care. I've lost a lot of respect because of the fact he fails to listen to what I have to say and thinks he is always right about every situation. The rift is also because I respect him as a martial artist but not as a person.

If that were my situation, I'd probably look elsewhere. I wouldn't want to learn from someone like that, regardless of time spent. Sometimes relationships end. To me he sounds like he thinks he's bulletproof/perfect in his own mind. No one is perfect. That kind of arrogance could affect his teaching. Being a great martial artist doesn't necessarily make you a great teacher.

 

[celtic_crippler]

If you don't want to be "here" then we don't want you "here". We don't even have contracts.

If you want to be "here" then you're welcome to be "here".

We are not the "Krotty-Inquisition"....we don't tell people who they can or can not train with. We do not try to excerpt control of their personal lives. That being said, if they do something that we consider out of line, or sheds a bad light on us and/or our art we will act.

Example: some years ago a student took some underbelts to another school and was disrespectful to that school, their students, and instructors. That person was told to publiclly apologize to the school in front of the instructor and all the students, and then write a 1000 page essay on why that was wrong. They didnt'...but they're no longer our student either.

If you come back to our school after an absence, you keep your rank, but you don't progress until you show you're still proficient up to that rank.

 

[BlueDragon1981]

If that were my situation, I'd probably look elsewhere. I wouldn't want to learn from someone like that, regardless of time spent. Sometimes relationships end. To me he sounds like he thinks he's bulletproof/perfect in his own mind. No one is perfect. That kind of arrogance could affect his teaching. Being a great martial artist doesn't necessarily make you a great teacher.

I will likely look for another school. Due to the simple fact that if I no longer have respect for him I am not comfortable training with him. I do have a goal to get my next rank. Just a personal goal. I may do that then leave. I will ask to start as a beginner in my next school. It just really makes me angry that he is simply doing this because he does not trust someone who can make her own decisions. (She is 18). (Don't get me wrong there is more that is not said to this situation but not even giving me a chance to explain is just disrespectful in my opinion.)

I'm not of the opinion an instructor should not allow you to train elsewhere, you should as a courtesy let them know but they should never forbid you from doing so.

 

[shihansmurf]

If you don't want to be "here" then we don't want you "here". We don't even have contracts.

If you want to be "here" then you're welcome to be "here".

We are not the "Krotty-Inquisition"....we don't tell people who they can or can not train with.

Awesome! I've just garnered a new phrase. "Krotty Inquisition".

I don't understand the cult mindset that permeates many martial art schools. I've never been put in a position where I was told by a martial arts instructor what I could or couldn't do outside of a dojo.I would probably laugh at them and cease training at that school.

I remain amazed at the number of adults that put up with crap to play a sport.

Mark "Being careful to avoid being charged as a Krotty Heretic"

 

[jarrod]

i don't trust instructors who discourage cross-training, within or without of the style. they are often hiding their own weaknesses as instructors or martial artists.

lol at "krotty inquisition". that's awesome.

jf

 

[Imua Kuntao]

I recently learn of a student who had left Kim's Academy here in San Antonio and went to study with a friend of mine. It turns out this guy wanted to get his red belt (brown in other styles/school) and then go back to Kim's and test for his Black belt in 3 months time. This student was looking for the fast lane to a Black Belt. It shows no respect for Master Kim, or my buddy, or Taekwondo.

 

[foggymorning162]

Our instructor encourages us to train in other styles so someone who was just looking for a different style heck that's a lot of our students. Most people who have come in looking to switch schools haven't trained in a while and they are evaluated then given rank the only time that a person is asked for a release from a former instructor is when they are from within our federation, and it is done as a courtesy to the other instructor. I guess you could say why not extend that courtesy to any instructor but if someone hasn't trained for a while does it really matter what their former instructor thinks or what if they moved across country are you going to make them contact the old school, it's not like they are going to fly back 2 or 3 times a week for classes so what do they care if they want to train with you. If they are a problem student your going to find out on your own you can't go by what their old instructor says because maybe they just didn't mesh well you need to form your own opinions about people be it good or bad.

 

[Flying Crane]

I will likely look for another school. Due to the simple fact that if I no longer have respect for him I am not comfortable training with him. I do have a goal to get my next rank. Just a personal goal. I may do that then leave.

Nah, what's the point? Think he'd even test you fairly and give the rank if merited?

Sounds to me like an uncomfortable situation, regardless of who is right, who is wrong, who is left, and any other mindgames. I don't think you can learn and train under these circumstances. Leave graciously, before it becomes a big blowout. Be respectful, just tell him that you recognize it's time for you to leave. Don't talk about training elsewhere, it's none of his business. Then go where you want and do what you want.

 

[Phoenix44]

I recently left the dojo I'd been training and teaching at for a long time. Once you've informed your instructor that you're leaving, I don't think you owe anyone any explanation of where you're going or why--that includes the former instructor as well as the new one. Just be a gentleman (or lady), and go on with your life.

 

[YoungMan]

Depends on the situation. If you are a color belt and looking to train elsewhere (dissatisfied with old school, moving etc.), then you are considered a free agent. However, you most likely will either start as a white belt again or I will determine what rank you should hold. But my assumption is you cut all ties with your old school.

Black belt is a little trickier. Ideally you get permission from your old instructor. Leaving your school to train with me without observing certain etiquettes can lead to resentment between two instructors.
If that's not possible, I still want to see all certification to understand what I'm dealing with. Also, I want to know why you are leaving. If you are merely looking to train with me for cross training, or you got into it with your instructor, I will most likely turn you down. One thing I value is loyalty, whether to me or another instructor. If I don't get that, I won't accept you.

If I do allow you to train with me as a black belt, you will undergo a probationary period of several months to a year to determine your mindset and loyalty. During this time, you may practice, but are not eligible to test and your behavior and manners will be watched closely.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I am a refugee, and I take refugees. I cross train, so I allow cross training. Simple.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

We don't have a policy per se, though I do personally feel that a new student coming in trash talking his or her former establishment is in bad taste. I don't mean saying, 'this is why I left' and keeping it general, short and sweet. But a lengthy diatribe is unnecessary and unbecoming.

One school asking another school about a former student opens up too many doors for slander, liable, and he-said-she-said nonsense. If the new student is a troublemaker, it will become apparent without any cross talk between the two schools.

Now, a student who shows up with a letter of recomendation without any prompting from the new school is definitely above board and to be respected.

Daniel