On ego.

[theletch1]

In this thread the vast majority of people pointed to ego as one of the attributes of their worst instructor. That got me to thinking... just how important is ego in the martial arts or in life in general? Too large an ego and you become an overbearing ***. Too small an ego and you just never develop that sense of self esteem that is necessary for success. My question to all of you is how important do you think ego is in your life? Not just the martial arts but your relationships, jobs and so on.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

A healthy well balanced ego is very important.

 

[Nolerama]

In the MAs, having your ego in the gym keeps you from both learning new technique, and accepting constructive criticism. A huge ego in an instructor makes him or her a liability to your own training, if you decide to agree with ego-inspired opinions. "I'm right, you're wrong... always" is a bit counterproductive.

I think the same goes in real life. Having an oversized ego doesn't really give you a whole lot of credibility. It just makes people keep away from you.

 

[Rich Parsons]

In this thread the vast majority of people pointed to ego as one of the attributes of their worst instructor. That got me to thinking... just how important is ego in the martial arts or in life in general? Too large an ego and you become an overbearing ***. Too small an ego and you just never develop that sense of self esteem that is necessary for success. My question to all of you is how important do you think ego is in your life? Not just the martial arts but your relationships, jobs and so on.

Ego and Martial arts.

A system that is hierarchical, where people of lower ranks have to do and say what of those of higher ranks says. The higher the rank the higher the implied respect. It is not the martial arts that is the problem it is the people who find the system of management to their liking.

On the other end those that say fighting or sparring or conflict is the only way to test a person and skill set have their points. But the fastest or strongest, may not be the most skilled nor the best at teaching. There are big egos that go with this as well, as they project their ego and dominance to get into the heads of the others and make them second guess or think and possible not be at their best. There are good points to this, but once again it is the ego coming forward.

 

[HM2PAC]

The relationship of ego to fighting is a real tightrope walk.

You must have enough confidence to step into the ring and believe that you can win. Too much confidence produces pride which comes before a fall according to the Good Book.

You must also be humble enough to know that there is something to learn in losing. Be too humble and others will take advantage of you and what is yours.

The answer IMHO is balance.

 

[bluekey88]

Ego, in the calssical psuycholpogical sense, means a sense of self. I think that is VERY important in a martial artist. Knwoing who you are, what you stand for, what you can and cannot do are necessary MA survival traits.

Ego in the colloguial sense, as in having a head too large ofr one's body is a problem for amrtial arts and life in general. Humility combined with a strong sense of self is the way to go IMHO.

Peace,
Erik

 

[tshadowchaser]

We as practitioners need to distinguish between ego and just knowing that you know the material .
Ego to me implies that self back patting, the "I" before the “we” when talking or doing.
Knowing the material or knowing you can do the material without giving the impression of being over bearing is where I distinguish the martial artist from the ego maniac

 

[hogstooth]

It really depends on the definition. If you are using the term as someone having pride in their accomplishments without flaunting them, then I think it is a good thing. If you mean a braggard that can't fit his head through the dojo door then I think it is a bad thing.
We have all seen the bad side of ego. The student that is awarded his 1st dan and he turns into a know it all *** to the instructor that is too busy telling you how great he is without bothering to properly instruct you as if just by being in his presence is enough for you to learn. Or worse the instructor that wants everyone to know how good he is and hurts his students trying to prove it.
IMO the mark of a good instructor is someone that knows his capabilities but doesn't need to flaunt them. If you are secure in your abilities then you shouldn't have to prove anything to anyone. It's those that are insecure that needs to get recognition for everything they do. "Notice me, see how great I am, Look at what I can do" It reminds me of my daughter when she was five and had to have your attention every second of the day.

 

[Sukerkin]

Good responses everyone. Hogstooth expressed it pretty much as I would have, I think and Brian cut to the core of the matter with great efficiency.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

The Ego actually has a valid usefulness in our daily surivial.

The ego is that part of the id which has been modified by the direct influence of the external world ... The ego represents what may be called reason and common sense, in contrast to the id, which contains the passions ... in its relation to the id it is like a man on horseback, who has to hold in check the superior strength of the horse; with this difference, that the rider tries to do so with his own strength, while the ego uses borrowed forces [Freud, The Ego and the Id (1923)]

From:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego

The problem lays is when you become Egocentric or I guess when self confidence becomes self arrogrance. This IMO defeats the purpose of the Ego's role of self preservation.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Ego has it's place. It's when ego become's all consuming that it hurts.

Without ego, most people would never excel at anything. Ego is what gets people willing to die for a medal. Ego is what gets people willing to train several hours a day for years to get into the Olympics. Ego, and it's close accociate, honor, are a necessary part of life.

But it's when that ego gets to be a 'big head' that it hurts. When the person lacks any humility and lets the ego become everything that it becomes destructive.

I have an ego, sure. But I know I'm not perfect and there are better people than me.

Deaf

 

[Mimir]

I thnk that is the crux of the problem. Ego itself is not a problem per se. It is when the ego doesn't have any balancing humility that the person becomes unbearable. This is also the point when they are not longer able to learn.

 

[MA-Caver]

I have an ego, sure. But I know I'm not perfect and there are better people than me.
Deaf

Same here, but at the same time I try not to make myself better than anybody else or to have the attitude of superiority as it were, especially when I'm teaching what I know to someone just getting into it.

I try to temper my ego down to the barest minimum. As a recovering alcoholic/addict I've learned that egos are not good. Get to a point of expectation and not meet it would be a blow to an over-inflated ego.
But gotta have enough to want to walk out of the house looking good and have a personality that's cause for people to be glad to see you. To know that I'm good at what I do and that my peers respect me for it... as I respect them.
When I met two senior masters of their respective arts, I respected them even more because of their humility in that their knowledge (that was evident to see) is that even while they were there to give the seminars they were just like anyone else in the room. Though I was there to learn from them I still saw them as equals and felt treated likewise. That was a good thing.

When an instructor has an ego it too must be tempered. IMO it should be enough to provide the confidence to teach their respective art but it should not be so that no-one else can teach what he knows. They had to learn it from people better than them right? Sometimes they forget that.

 

[trainable]

It has always been an easy beacon to spot when an ego is a bit overinflated, or not strong at all. It may be the undoing of many more things in life than just the martial arts.

I have always taken an interest in where the beliefs and the mind can lead you regardless of your circumstances, financial position, or level of attainment.

Ego seems to be the hingepin. Look at every truly sustainable success that we have come to know (not financial), and observe the qualities of those individuals. Would you say that their ego is visible, or another batch of qualities?

Self Confidence. This usually comes from prior successes in the current activity or event, or from successes in another. Ego will usually appear if there is little self confidence, or if the self confidence is not compensating for an inconsistent belief. Ego working beneficially would be a coach. "You can do this, you have done this before". How many crap talkers have we seen knocked out on UFC. My favorite fighters acknowledge the skill of their opponent, then get about the business of knocking them out. My favorite instructors focus on what they can show me that I can do, rather than showcase their own talents. They may be able to run circles around me, but their ego tells them to use their success to program my success. I admire their talents, thats why I train.

Self Concept. How we think of ourselves can be tied to the principles and values, and how we conduct our lives in accordance with them. Ego will appear when we see our shortcomings in another, or our desired levels in someone else. The question is, if the ego works inward or outward. I would say that the ego working outward is again to the detriment. We knock down another, or bolster ourselves due to what we see in another, to make ourselves appear in a better light, or worse, to make someone else feel worse. The inward ego would see a person with lesser position or principle, and in recognition to the comfort you have with your principles, try and take a moment to lift them up. Or, when recognizing an admirable person, taking example and seeking self improvement.

Self Esteem. How we feel about ourselves can be tied to the previous two "selfs", or a product of the way we have been treated by others. It can come from our financial, physiological, genetic, or social structures. How we feel about ourselves spawns ego in what I believe to be the worst way. If we dont feel good about ourselves, we are in a position to level attacks on others esteem. We fight these battles every day, and see the ugliest behaviors from others ego in this light. Sometimes we catch ourselves being ugly in this way. The "instructor" that I recently parted with carried this to all of his students. He wanted all the respect, yet gave none. He wanted everyone to perform perfectly, yet could not himself. He held others to standards that he did not hold himself. He wanted respect yet gave none.

I believe that many of you have stated much truth about ego, and in a way I believe that a balanced ego is essential. I believe that the way you use your ego determines the side of the curve you end up on. Look at the 3 "selfs" above, and the inadequacies there are usually the spawn of the ego we despise. Makes it alot easier to deal with those "egomaniacs" when we know what makes them tick.

I will not spend money or time to work with these people. Its not my ego that causes me to walk, its my quest for something better that allows me the peace to move on. This community has far too many good instructors and practicioners to spend time with an egomaniac.

 

[kaizasosei]

i have read practically nothing but good points on the subject of the ego here and would like to add some more.

basically, my latest understanding of ego is that ego is not something bad. Ego only becomes bad when it begins to harm another or encroach on their right to be.

Basically on a rudimentary level, every animal cares for its young to a certain degree, most do this very actively and go to great lengths to protect the offspring-even to the point of sacrificing themselves. Animals will also flee from perceived danger as a form of selfprotection and this too can fall under the heading of ego or rather the term self. it may well be a mirror image of some divine universal energy.

with humans, it is often simplified to the point that ego=negativity or weakness. i do believe in negativity and in weakness, but i do not equate it with ego. i think that as human beings we have the ability to freely choose where we direct our energies. we can and do end up identifying ourselves with certain ideas and principles to establish goals and priorities. what else does this but the ego.

as has been stated:

Ego seems to be the hingepin. Look at every truly sustainable success that we have come to know (not financial), and observe the qualities of those individuals. Would you say that their ego is visible, or another batch of qualities?

Meister Eckhart, a well known mystic, once said; the physical food that we take up becomes our body, but the spiritual food that we take up, devours or absorbs us so that we become a part of that which we choose to believe in.

i believe that goes for both positive as well as negative things. virtues as well as vices powerfully shape our lives and our surroundings.
i believe in blessings and in curses. to know that each and every movement as well as thought is a deep and powerful prayer, is to understand the grave level of resposibility we carry as human beings.

If i identify myself with certain ideas, certain arts, political stances or even lofty ideas of intellect or spirituality is in essence the contemplative aspect of the relative truth i can experience. however, within this realm that i reside in with other beings, there are aspects of my actions that are absolute.

i will agree that the ego or the subject of the ego has many aspects, the central focal point is the ego itself-without which it is impossible to discuss anything at all.

so when i think of ego, i dont think of weakness.
i do agree with the profound and perceptive statement;

Ego will appear when we see our shortcomings in another, or our desired levels in someone else.

i would however, suggest using the term weakness in this case rather than ego. because if someone protects his children, home or country, that could also be seen as ego maybe even as strength.

can't we aspire to become that which we admire, or at least experience happiness for someone else, at the same time can't we choose to help another that is less fortunate or give them that which they need to advance towards perfection? at it's best, i believe the ego also covers these positive attributes of man.
....


i do believe that there may be something that transcends what we call love,strength or power, but the question is, would that something, be it nonviolence, extreme bliss or other extremely spiritual faculties simply be a still higher form of ego, another type of strategy or action?

because in my opinion, all that counts is what we love or believe in, how we choose to communicate or defend against dangers and the courage we have or do not have to believe when everything tells us that we are wrong or doomed for failure.

j

 

[Deaf Smith]

And that is why guys, when a white belt tries a kick and falls on their bottom, I tell them I've fallen many times (and God knows I have!) And it's not the fall that matters, it's if you get up or not.

When I hear of schools, public ones that is and not martial arts ones, talking about 'self esteem' and 'feeling good' it just turns me cold. That is not the way. Self respect, the willingness to set high standards for yourself is what matters.

I feel they are playing to the wrong side of the students ego. 'Feeling good' and 'self esteem' is playing to ones narcissistic side of ego. Self respect is more of demanding better of oneself. Still part of ego, but a very big difference.

Deaf

 

[Xue Sheng]

In this thread the vast majority of people pointed to ego as one of the attributes of their worst instructor. That got me to thinking... just how important is ego in the martial arts or in life in general? Too large an ego and you become an overbearing ***. Too small an ego and you just never develop that sense of self esteem that is necessary for success. My question to all of you is how important do you think ego is in your life? Not just the martial arts but your relationships, jobs and so on.

Ego meaning confidence is a good thing. Ego meaning arrogance is a bad thing.

Currently, since my dept is going through an internal war, confidence is a good thing. It is pretty much the only way to survive at the moment.

Thank you Gov Paterson

 

[Nomad]

It's my belief that if you don't have a big ego, you will never want to teach martial arts. For that matter, you are pretty unlikely to progress very far as a martial artist. Part of the battle in becoming a good martial artist and a good teacher is learning about your own ego... when you are showing it, when you are acting on it, and above all how to control it.

Ego becomes a problem when you don't recognize its influence on you and let it control you. In an instructor, this can lead to many other issues, like trying to teach material that they don't understand, unfair treatment of students, lying to increase their own self-importance, etc.

There is no such thing as someone who is "egoless"... just those who can recognize its influence (and suppress it when necessary) and those who are ruled by it.

 

[Ninebird8]

If a man passes 40, and still lets ego rule him, he has not learned anything in life. My grandfather was a wise man! I found that competing for almost 20 years gave me a huge ego and in some sense made me much better than I might have been, as well as a couple of fights on the street. However, when I started tai chi 12 years ago after 20 years in kung fu, I started to realize the competition was with myself and my overblown ego. I agree with some here who say ego, properly controlled, is a prime motivator to succeed. But, and this is only my opinion and experience, as one gets older one's definition of success and goal attainment change. I had always wanted to attain a Masters of Business and a Masters rank in Chinese martial arts. Now that I have attained both, I find that my goal now is to understand myself better, treat others well, and accept my limitations. I am in good shape for 50, can still do much what I did before, but there are certain things I physically cannot do anymore. But, if one lets ego go, and realizes the impending mortality, then the study of martial arts changes and I believe becomes one of true self realization. It is funny, we call it self defense, self realization, etc. which might lend to eo development. There is a great old Star Trek episode where Kirk goes through a transporter mishap and is divided into two selves, one ego and one id. It is a great extrapolation as ego is reflected as the power, the determination, etc. while the id is portrayed as compassionate, kind, thoughtful, etc. The ego needs the id to control the tiger, but the id needs the ego to be the powerful dragon. Combined appropriately, ego can become a positive force for self development.....uncontrolled, it can lead to destruction!!

 

[BrandonLucas]

I think it needs to be said that having some sense of ego is a must...

I have met a few people over the years who had absolutely no sense of ego at all, and they were not very fun to talk to, much like people with too much sense of ego.

People with no sense of ego just won't tell you about themselves at all...they would rather talk about something else, or talk about someone else, and getting any information about accomplishments from them first hand is a real struggle. These people are also regular victims of bullying and don't speak up for themselves at all.

There has to be a balance in the middle, which I think most of us are able to find. There are not very many people out there (that I've met, anyway) that are either too full of themselves to the point of being disgusting or don't care about themselves at all. There are, however, people who drift from the happy medium at times, and more often they drift towards the too full side. But there truly are people out there who have so little ego that it's almost pathetic.