black belts trying to impress their gf's/bf's?

[Blade96]

I wasnt sure where to ask this question, but its martial arts related, so maybe here......

what do you guys think of this.

I read people, black belts, talking on another MA board where I lurk at times, and they were talking about how much fun it was for them to bring the gf's to the dojo and 'deliberately' walk in late so that everyone bows to them? they say it was fun to impress their gf's by having them see them get bowed to.

As a woman myself, I wouldnt be impressed by this. If it was me, I'd think the BB's were on some kind of an ego trip or something, that they would want me to see how everyone 'bow' to them when they walk in late deliberately and think this would somehow impress me. I'd be turned off by this.

by the way, Our black belts don't do it, and in my 6 months of training, I have never met any of my classmates' mates. Nor have I met my senseis' wives. It just doesnt happen here. People just dont do it.

What do you think of this type of black belts trying to impress their partners in this way?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Wouldn't work in my dojo. We bow to black belts at the beginning and end of class when receiving instruction, not just because they walked in the door. And they bow back to us.

However, if it did happen, so what? I'm not concerned with what other people do to get their kicks. I'm not harmed in any way, and if it inflates their ego, well then good for them.

 

[shihansmurf]

The school I'm at now since I've moved back home is big on this. It makes me uncomfortable to have the class stop and bow to me when I'm entering the training area. I think it is antithetical to the humility that we are suppposed to have as instructors when we insist on that sort of thing.

As far as a bb doing so just to impress his girl friend, I think it is tacky and would result in a pointed discussion off line about the arrogance that they are displaying and the poor example that they are setting in front of the lower ranking students.

Mark

 

[MJS]

I wasnt sure where to ask this question, but its martial arts related, so maybe here......

what do you guys think of this.

I read people, black belts, talking on another MA board where I lurk at times, and they were talking about how much fun it was for them to bring the gf's to the dojo and 'deliberately' walk in late so that everyone bows to them? they say it was fun to impress their gf's by having them see them get bowed to.

As a woman myself, I wouldnt be impressed by this. If it was me, I'd think the BB's were on some kind of an ego trip or something, that they would want me to see how everyone 'bow' to them when they walk in late deliberately and think this would somehow impress me. I'd be turned off by this.

by the way, Our black belts don't do it, and in my 6 months of training, I have never met any of my classmates' mates. Nor have I met my senseis' wives. It just doesnt happen here. People just dont do it.

What do you think of this type of black belts trying to impress their partners in this way?

I think you're right, that the people that do this, are on some sort of ego trip. Frankly, I think its quite disrespectful to show up to class late anyways. I mean, sure, there are always going to be circumstances out of our control, ie: traffic jam, etc., that may prevent us from showing up late, so from time to time, yes, I can excuse something like that. But, to show up late because you're trying to impress someone...no, sorry, that doesnt sit well with me. Its not only rude to the teacher, but also to the rest of the class.

Then again, I recall one of my old teachers, who'd make you still warmup, when you got there. So to think that you'd just slide right into class...nope, you still had to do pushups, situps, stretch, and then you could join in. IIRC, there was one time when a student showed up so late, that he was turned away at the door.

IMO, people who do this shouldn't be BB's because if they feel the need to constantly have to show off, and can't be responsible enough to get themselves to class in a timely fashion, then they're not mature enough for BB rank.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Anyone late to class in my dojo has to do pushups, regardless of belt. No blame, but no excuses either. Just do the pushups and join the class.

I'm not sure why anyone cares what others do to get their kicks. This whisper-party stuff gets on my nerves. It's no skin off my nose, if they do it to impress a girlfriend or whatever. So what? I'm not offended, nor do I think it's disrespectful. It's just a person pandering to their own self-doubts. That's their problem, not mine.

Frankly, this to me illustrates a more important problem that many dojos seem to have - rumors, innuendo, and idle chit-chat about this person or that person. I've heard of people run out of classes, leaving dojos, getting into out-of-class fights, and so on; all due to people that say this or people that say that, taking sides, joining cliques, being 'in' or 'out' and all that jazz. Good lord people. This ain't high school. Get a grip on yourselves. So some self-important so-and-so wants to impress a girlfriend by 'making people bow to them'. So what? Really, so what?

I'm there to train. I need all the mat time I can get, all the instruction I can absorb. I'm not interested in who said what or why, who did what to whom, who is disrespectful or proud or mean. Punch, block, kick, repeat. Mind your own business and let others mind theirs.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

 

[jks9199]

They're ego-driven idiots...

And, black belt or not, they'd look silly in a lot classes as they then get told by the person leading the class to go in a corner and do warm-ups... or worse... for disrupting the class!

 

[jks9199]

The school I'm at now since I've moved back home is big on this. It makes me uncomfortable to have the class stop and bow to me when I'm entering the training area. I think it is antithetical to the humility that we are suppposed to have as instructors when we insist on that sort of thing.

As far as a bb doing so just to impress his girl friend, I think it is tacky and would result in a pointed discussion off line about the arrogance that they are displaying and the poor example that they are setting in front of the lower ranking students.

Mark

That's another thing... I'm not a fan of it either. Best I can tell, the "bow everytime you see a black belt" thing is largely a case of misunderstanding and misusing the etiquette rules of another culture.

 

[seasoned]

Problem with this whole showoff thing is, it spills over into other aspects of training. By the time a student has reached black belt in a serious minded dojo this ego thing has gone, or they no longer train there. It is for this reason, when a black belt comes in from another style, their previous black belt is not put on until they meet the standards set by the sensei, get the material down, and prove themselves.

 

[Gordon Nore]

As with Bill's dojo, the rule at mine was that if you arrived late, you did pushups. Late comers had to wait to be bowed in by the senior belt, usually the person teaching the class.. In terms of bowing, there was no special bow for the dans. The teacher, whatever rank, bows in the whole class. People bow to their partners when training. A lower kyu might request help from a higher kyu, and they'd bow afterwards. Sensei used to tell the kids that they bowed to him to thank him for teaching, and he bowed back to thank them for being students, without which he would not be a teacher.

 

[crushing]

However, if it did happen, so what? I'm not concerned with what other people do to get their kicks. I'm not harmed in any way, and if it inflates their ego, well then good for them.

My thoughts too.

 

[Balrog]

what do you guys think of this.

I read people, black belts, talking on another MA board where I lurk at times, and they were talking about how much fun it was for them to bring the gf's to the dojo and 'deliberately' walk in late so that everyone bows to them? they say it was fun to impress their gf's by having them see them get bowed to.

IMNSHO....

If they had been trained properly, they would not be that rude to the other members of the class, and they would not need the ego boost from the bow.

 

[Carol]

The first school I trained in had a sign that said something to the effect of "every student has the right to a great class" (I forget exactly how it was worded). The sign was placed in a way that was visible to everyone -- the parents watching, the students, and the staff/instructors in a way that stated/implied that this was everyone's responsibility.

I personally don't care for all the extra bowing, but the most important thing to me is if everyone is working together to have a great class. Coming in late to have the class stop and bow does not live up to that responsibility.

 

[l_uk3y]

Lol. As a realist I don't think that would impress many people. Mind you this is coming from somebody who has walked upto the door 2 minutes late (Only on the first 5 or so stretches) then went home before entering because I refuse to start a class if I miss the bow in regardless of reason.

In our school if you are late you can train but regardless of your rank you go to the very back of the class behind beginners with no uniform. They must stay at the side of the class in the watching area and wait until they are instructed to bow in before beginning.

They move back to their correct position once the class has disembarked from the mat (eg. drinks break) then we regroup back on the mat.

Therefore it wouldn't be an overly impressive move at our school. lol

 

[Bruno@MT]

In genbukan, there is no extra bowing for any BB. Unless he or she is the sensei (or his or her sensei) he or she is just a student. The only one who gets a bow if he or she is late is the sensei.

If we are late, we have to sit in seiza at the edge of the tatami until the sensei tells us to join the class, at which point it is up to the sensei to either make us join the class, warm up separately or whatever.

Personally I don't think BBs are entitled to more bows than any other students.
People coming in late in our class don't impress anyone, and will get a talking to if they do it with an attitude.

 

[Chris Parker]

Manipulating a situation to get an extra bow to impress a girlfriend/boyfriend? Really, how unimpressve are they in every other way that thy have to do that?

With our organisation, bowing is kept to an absolute minimum. There is a formal bow-in at the beginning of class, and a formal bow-out at the end, but they are primarily kept to retain the "Japanese" flavour. Our etiquette is far more Western in detail. As students join up to train a particular technique, they shake hands, and when finished shake hands again and thank their partner. Everyone is refered to by their surname (Mr Jones, Ms Smith, Sensei Johnson for example). Basically, this is because we are Westerners, and as such, Eastern concepts such a bowing are not something that are part of the cultural upbringing of most of our students.

 

[Bruno@MT]

There is the formal bowing at the beginning and ending of the class. When we pair up we do a simple bow at the beginning and the end as well. This is just the way genbukan works world wide. The sensei is addressed as sensei. The sempai as sempai, and the rest is first name basis.

After or before class, everyone is on first name basis including the sensei, or last name basis if you don't know each other / have not been introduced. Class is always conducted in Genbukan tradition. Out of class is local culture. The only exception would be people whom you don't have an 'informal' relationship with, like for example Tanemura sensei. Not that I presume I will ever be on his radar or meet him in an informal out-of-class setting

 

[Cirdan]

If you show up late at us, you sit down and wait for the instructor to acknowledge you and then give a bow no matter what rank you are.

Showing up late on purpose is disrespectful. It is also a bit disruptive since you will have to be filled in on what you missed at the start. Generally I don`t bother showing up if I will be more than 15 minutes late for the lesson.

Showing off with your rank is laughable, it just proves you got too big an Ego.

 

[MJS]

Anyone late to class in my dojo has to do pushups, regardless of belt. No blame, but no excuses either. Just do the pushups and join the class.

I'm not sure why anyone cares what others do to get their kicks. This whisper-party stuff gets on my nerves. It's no skin off my nose, if they do it to impress a girlfriend or whatever. So what? I'm not offended, nor do I think it's disrespectful. It's just a person pandering to their own self-doubts. That's their problem, not mine.

Frankly, this to me illustrates a more important problem that many dojos seem to have - rumors, innuendo, and idle chit-chat about this person or that person. I've heard of people run out of classes, leaving dojos, getting into out-of-class fights, and so on; all due to people that say this or people that say that, taking sides, joining cliques, being 'in' or 'out' and all that jazz. Good lord people. This ain't high school. Get a grip on yourselves. So some self-important so-and-so wants to impress a girlfriend by 'making people bow to them'. So what? Really, so what?

I'm there to train. I need all the mat time I can get, all the instruction I can absorb. I'm not interested in who said what or why, who did what to whom, who is disrespectful or proud or mean. Punch, block, kick, repeat. Mind your own business and let others mind theirs.

Sorry, but that's how I feel.

The bowing, for late arrivals, at my old school, was done to the BB that was leading the class, as he/she were the ones that acknowledged the late arrival.

However, I do find your reply rather interesting. In this case, you dont seem bothered by the rude behavior on the part of the late student, yet in other threads, martial artists, who opted to fight rather than back down to the punk, were macho.

See, I feel this is disrespectful, because the late arrival is showing no concern or responsibility. Do they show up late for work? I say its disrespectful because I, as the teacher, am there on time, doing my part, and unless there is something that is out of the persons control, ie: traffic jam, accident, then there is no reason the students should be late. I now, have to take the time to start whatever I'm teaching over, for the sake of this late person, which now takes away from the learning of those that're on time.

 

[jks9199]

Nice points, MJS.

Students who chronically show up late are a disruption. There can be justifying circumstances, but under normal circumstances, it shouldn't happen regularly. I do have two students right now who are late most classes because they have a religious commitment for a few more months -- but I know what's going on. Same thing when I had a work schedule issue for a while several years back...

As a general rule, it's disruptive and rude to wander in whenever you feel like it. You should be on-time (in fact, early, so that you're ready when class is supposed to start).

 

[cdunn]

... My fiancee is my senior in the dojang. If I tried to pull this stunt, she'd beat me personally, before our sabomnim got to me.