Interesting point Brandon....hmmmm......if I understand you correctly then, if id and ego are in perfect balance, then one can stand up for himself and be perfectly happy....LOL! Sorry, kidding aside, I agree with your main point. Well stated.
On ego.
- Thread starter theletch1
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shihansmurf
Black Belt
This will be a tough post to write..
I am a good martial artist. I am fast, strong, and tough. I have a well developed skill set. I am confident in my ability to apply my tools to a resisting opponent in a crisis. I am knowledgeable in the forms, drills, and traditions of my art. I have a great deal of successful teaching experience and a demonstrated track record of turning out students that perform well in competition and that also teach well.
Assuming that all of the above statements are factual; does stating them (and leaving aside the fact that doing so makes me uncomfortable) make me egotistical?
Does it simply make me confident?
Where do we draw the line and what criteria do we use to determine the deference between arrogance and pride (in the positive sense of the term)?
At times I think that we get so hung up on this Hollywood image of the overly humble idea of the Mr. Miyagi type Sensei that we tend to characterize confident and assertive personalities as egotist. Fighting, as earlier noted, requires the will to impress ones will upon another person physically. A person without a strong sense of self will not be able to do this.
As far as skill in the martial arts is concerned I realize that I am better than some, as good as most, worse than a few. Wisdom is the ability to discern where the my particular training partner of the moment falls into the above spectrum. I above all. Seek wisdom. Less pain that way.
Mark
I am a good martial artist. I am fast, strong, and tough. I have a well developed skill set. I am confident in my ability to apply my tools to a resisting opponent in a crisis. I am knowledgeable in the forms, drills, and traditions of my art. I have a great deal of successful teaching experience and a demonstrated track record of turning out students that perform well in competition and that also teach well.
Assuming that all of the above statements are factual; does stating them (and leaving aside the fact that doing so makes me uncomfortable) make me egotistical?
Does it simply make me confident?
Where do we draw the line and what criteria do we use to determine the deference between arrogance and pride (in the positive sense of the term)?
At times I think that we get so hung up on this Hollywood image of the overly humble idea of the Mr. Miyagi type Sensei that we tend to characterize confident and assertive personalities as egotist. Fighting, as earlier noted, requires the will to impress ones will upon another person physically. A person without a strong sense of self will not be able to do this.
As far as skill in the martial arts is concerned I realize that I am better than some, as good as most, worse than a few. Wisdom is the ability to discern where the my particular training partner of the moment falls into the above spectrum. I above all. Seek wisdom. Less pain that way.
Mark
Eggo's I have them atleast twice a week for breakfast, what is the fuse over :lfao: 
:-offtopic
:-offtopic
shihansmurf
Black Belt
Leggo my eggo.......
OP
- Thread Starter
- #25
Confidence is merely making that statement. Egotistical is demanding that others acknowledge those achievements. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging to yourself that you've accomplished something. I believe it becomes a problem, however, when you begin to feel that others should have the put you on a pedestal for those accomplishments.
I wanted to write something that captured Ego but I have this instead;
ID- what you are born with, the child, basis is " I Want, I Need, Now!" is also the reptile, focused on survival, pleasure, all about getting what it wants and needs now. Lives for the now, no future, delayed gratification not high on the list
EGO- the "I Am" , the adult self realized, self awarness, lives in the present, future and past, can apply lessons of past to now and future, can plan. Crosses over onto ID. Can take power from ID. This is where the most growth both mentally and spiritully can take place. Niether bad or good.
SuperEgo- the "I/you/we should" the moralist or controller or motivator. Sets standards of behavior and goals for self and others. Crosses over onto Ego to demand action be taken. Often seen as the parent or in some cases jailer.
I am not sure on this subject as I am still unsure of my definition of Ego.
lori
ID- what you are born with, the child, basis is " I Want, I Need, Now!" is also the reptile, focused on survival, pleasure, all about getting what it wants and needs now. Lives for the now, no future, delayed gratification not high on the list
EGO- the "I Am" , the adult self realized, self awarness, lives in the present, future and past, can apply lessons of past to now and future, can plan. Crosses over onto ID. Can take power from ID. This is where the most growth both mentally and spiritully can take place. Niether bad or good.
SuperEgo- the "I/you/we should" the moralist or controller or motivator. Sets standards of behavior and goals for self and others. Crosses over onto Ego to demand action be taken. Often seen as the parent or in some cases jailer.
I am not sure on this subject as I am still unsure of my definition of Ego.
lori
Several posts have hung up on the Freudian definition of Ego.
But that's not really the issue. Here, we're really talking about Ego as self image and self esteem.
A certain amount of this sort of Ego is necessary to teach; it's where you find the confidence to stand in front of one or more students and say "listen to me; this is the way to do it." An excess of this sort of ego leads to problems -- the classic "mouth writing checks that your body can't cash" situation, as well as excessive bragging and silliness. In a weird way, a deficiency of ego is what often leads to the cult leader martial arts situations. The "teacher" needs their sense of self reassured repeatedly, so they require students to do so. A student who dares to question is being disrespectful -- especially if the question might show the "teacher's" failings or deficiency.
A person whose sense of self is balanced is internally confident; they don't need some outsider telling them that they are "good" because they know how good they are. They won't make their students show them respect -- because their students will respect them. They won't need to tell their students how good they are, either -- because it will show without bragging.
But that's not really the issue. Here, we're really talking about Ego as self image and self esteem.
A certain amount of this sort of Ego is necessary to teach; it's where you find the confidence to stand in front of one or more students and say "listen to me; this is the way to do it." An excess of this sort of ego leads to problems -- the classic "mouth writing checks that your body can't cash" situation, as well as excessive bragging and silliness. In a weird way, a deficiency of ego is what often leads to the cult leader martial arts situations. The "teacher" needs their sense of self reassured repeatedly, so they require students to do so. A student who dares to question is being disrespectful -- especially if the question might show the "teacher's" failings or deficiency.
A person whose sense of self is balanced is internally confident; they don't need some outsider telling them that they are "good" because they know how good they are. They won't make their students show them respect -- because their students will respect them. They won't need to tell their students how good they are, either -- because it will show without bragging.
BrandonLucas
3rd Black Belt
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I think bragging is really what lies at the heart of the matter of having a large ego. I don't think it's necessarily demanding others aknowledge your accomplishments...I think it's more constantly bringing your accomplishments to the attention of others over and over, while belittling other's accomplishments.
For someone just to state that they have done something is simply stating a fact. Nothing wrong with that. But for them to brag about it is going overboard. I.E:
"Hey, I had to fend off 3 guys trying to mug my wife yesterday, and I had to do it alone. I won the fight with little damage done to anyone, but I feel pretty confident they won't mess with me again."
I would consider this a statement of fact. The person defended himself and his wife against 3 attackers by himself, he won the fight, no one was hurt, and they won't try it again. All facts that can be backed up, and basically there is no need to go into detail, unless otherwise asked.
Here's the other side of the coin, in my opinion:
"Man, I had to fend off 3 guys trying to mug my wife yesterday. It was only me, against 3 of them....you should have seen me. I was tearing them up, man, just like a hot knife through butter! I even got rid of them without hurting them too badly. And you can check me out...I don't have a scratch on me! My wife was all talking about how I was her hero for saving her and junk...man...I just know those guys better not ever come back. I've got something waiting on 'em...if you know what I'm saying...but I think they know who the man is around here."
That, to me, is what an over-inflated ego is. And I know people who talk just like that. Sure, the facts are there, but you have to listen to all the bragging to get to the facts.
And then, there's the non-ego:
"I helped my wife not get mugged yesterday."
Now, this leaves you wanting to know alot more about what happened...just barely the hint of the facts in one sentence with no supporting facts to let you know they are both ok.
In my opinion, most people are like the first example. We state the facts of what happened, with maybe just a hint of pride in our accomplishment, but with the humility to not overstate the obvious.
For someone just to state that they have done something is simply stating a fact. Nothing wrong with that. But for them to brag about it is going overboard. I.E:
"Hey, I had to fend off 3 guys trying to mug my wife yesterday, and I had to do it alone. I won the fight with little damage done to anyone, but I feel pretty confident they won't mess with me again."
I would consider this a statement of fact. The person defended himself and his wife against 3 attackers by himself, he won the fight, no one was hurt, and they won't try it again. All facts that can be backed up, and basically there is no need to go into detail, unless otherwise asked.
Here's the other side of the coin, in my opinion:
"Man, I had to fend off 3 guys trying to mug my wife yesterday. It was only me, against 3 of them....you should have seen me. I was tearing them up, man, just like a hot knife through butter! I even got rid of them without hurting them too badly. And you can check me out...I don't have a scratch on me! My wife was all talking about how I was her hero for saving her and junk...man...I just know those guys better not ever come back. I've got something waiting on 'em...if you know what I'm saying...but I think they know who the man is around here."
That, to me, is what an over-inflated ego is. And I know people who talk just like that. Sure, the facts are there, but you have to listen to all the bragging to get to the facts.
And then, there's the non-ego:
"I helped my wife not get mugged yesterday."
Now, this leaves you wanting to know alot more about what happened...just barely the hint of the facts in one sentence with no supporting facts to let you know they are both ok.
In my opinion, most people are like the first example. We state the facts of what happened, with maybe just a hint of pride in our accomplishment, but with the humility to not overstate the obvious.
JKS thanks for the post, it took a while to come up with the words.
I think you do need enough Ego to say " listen to me, this is ONE way; not the only way but just one way. There are others, some are better some are worse, but here is mine." This opens you and your methods up to be judged and possibley to be found wanting. You need enough Ego to have the courage to do that. I think the teachers who teach with passion from the heart, who are genuine, do NOT hide behind artifice, posturing, trite formulaic lesson plans ( and trite formulaic answers to questions) or cold supperiority, have a ballace between Ego and humility.
I think these are few and far between and when found should be cherished.
lori
I think you do need enough Ego to say " listen to me, this is ONE way; not the only way but just one way. There are others, some are better some are worse, but here is mine." This opens you and your methods up to be judged and possibley to be found wanting. You need enough Ego to have the courage to do that. I think the teachers who teach with passion from the heart, who are genuine, do NOT hide behind artifice, posturing, trite formulaic lesson plans ( and trite formulaic answers to questions) or cold supperiority, have a ballace between Ego and humility.
I think these are few and far between and when found should be cherished.
lori
