Martial arts vs. stupidity

Dinkydoo

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How many times do I have to repeat myself? I'm not saying that one is worse than the other. I just don't like one of them.

But you don't like one of them based on things that both collections of martial arts have.....which doesn't make sense.
 
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vladone97

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I wouldn't mind at all but I didn't save a note of them. Check out some Shuri-te stuff - I think that's what I was looking at, but it was a while ago.
Well, I must admit that there is fluidity in this, but you must also admit that kung fu has more fluidity, most of it coming from the stances. Especially Lian Huan Quan.
 

Dinkydoo

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I have no idea how much more fluid all CMAs are than Karate, from what I've seen they 'probably' are, but I don't think generalising will improve either of our knowledge or understanding.
 

pgsmith

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I'm not upset and I definitely don't use martial arts to impress others. I only think that since they do karate, they should at least know something about it. Not to mention that they claim karate is better than any other style, for example kung fu, but they actually don't know anything about either of them. Imagine this: saying that something you don't know anything about is better than something else you don't know anything about and not knowing why it's better, just saying that it's better. Does it seem logical to you?

It doesn't seem very logical to me, but it does seem to be exactly what you are doing in this thread. All you know about martial arts is what you've managed to learn yourself, on your own. You've no idea whether it's accurate or totally wrong, you only have guesses. You then start a thread insulting other people because they don't understand what you think you do about martial arts. Yep, it definitely doesn't sound very logical to me.

Personally, I think that you could have gained a lot of insight into what you are doing if you had approached things here differently. There are a number of very experienced practitioners of the traditional Chinese arts that post here. However, all you seem to have done since you arrived is to rant and complain. I've not seen any questions or thoughts, just complaints and rationalizations.

My advice is to take a deep breath and start over from the beginning, with the understanding that most of the people you are arguing with here have training uniforms much older than you. :)

Good luck!
 
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vladone97

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But you don't like one of them based on things that both collections of martial arts have.....which doesn't make sense.
Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.
But that's not the whole thing. First of all, traditional kung fu has no belts. Just training. Karate belts are simply a way to make students keep taking classes until they get the black belt and show that they are masters (which they usually aren't. Another strategy is to give black belts earlier than students deserve them so they won't quit because it takes too long). That's how it happens lately. And before you relate this to me in any ways, I've never claimed to be a kung fu master. Not to mention that no instructor=no belts.
Secondly, there's what I like to call "karate logic". By that, I mean that karate as most dojos teach it now makes you think a real fight is much easier than it actually is and, thus, it won't prepare you for one. Like "Someone wants to attack you with a baseball bat? No problem. Just block the hit with your bare hands and counter. Don't worry. He won't punch you with his other hand". Before you say anything, there is the problem with the force generated by the bat, which greatly opposes (and usually outmatches) the force generated by your block. There actually is a karate technique in which you are supposed to catch the bat with one hand. THE BAT! WITH ONE HAND! There's absolutely no chance to do that in a real fight without extreme training. And the worst part, after you catch the bat, you have to break it in half (obviously with the other hand, which is also bare) and then hit the opponent's head with your half of the bat. The last step wouldn't be a problem if the first two steps were possible.
 

frank raud

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Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.
But that's not the whole thing. First of all, traditional kung fu has no belts. Just training. Karate belts are simply a way to make students keep taking classes until they get the black belt and show that they are masters (which they usually aren't. Another strategy is to give black belts earlier than students deserve them so they won't quit because it takes too long). That's how it happens lately. And before you relate this to me in any ways, I've never claimed to be a kung fu master. Not to mention that no instructor=no belts.
Secondly, there's what I like to call "karate logic". By that, I mean that karate as most dojos teach it now makes you think a real fight is much easier than it actually is and, thus, it won't prepare you for one. Like "Someone wants to attack you with a baseball bat? No problem. Just block the hit with your bare hands and counter. Don't worry. He won't punch you with his other hand". Before you say anything, there is the problem with the force generated by the bat, which greatly opposes (and usually outmatches) the force generated by your block. There actually is a karate technique in which you are supposed to catch the bat with one hand. THE BAT! WITH ONE HAND! There's absolutely no chance to do that in a real fight without extreme training. And the worst part, after you catch the bat, you have to break it in half (obviously with the other hand, which is also bare) and then hit the opponent's head with your half of the bat. The last step wouldn't be a problem if the first two steps were possible.

Please forgive me, I have only been training in Japanese martial arts since 1983. In that time I have gone to multiple martial arts conventions where 30-50 instructors of various styles of karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu teach their particular style. Instructors from literally around the world, North America, Europe, Russia, Korea, Japan, China and Australia. I have trained with multiple Jeet Kune Do instructors(Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell and a variety of their students). I have never seen anything like you are claiming. I have seen baseball bats being broken by shin kicks. Where exactly have you seen(or only read in a book) about this karate technique with a baseball bat?
 
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vladone97

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It doesn't seem very logical to me, but it does seem to be exactly what you are doing in this thread. All you know about martial arts is what you've managed to learn yourself, on your own. You've no idea whether it's accurate or totally wrong, you only have guesses. You then start a thread insulting other people because they don't understand what you think you do about martial arts. Yep, it definitely doesn't sound very logical to me.

Personally, I think that you could have gained a lot of insight into what you are doing if you had approached things here differently. There are a number of very experienced practitioners of the traditional Chinese arts that post here. However, all you seem to have done since you arrived is to rant and complain. I've not seen any questions or thoughts, just complaints and rationalizations.

My advice is to take a deep breath and start over from the beginning, with the understanding that most of the people you are arguing with here have training uniforms much older than you. :)

Good luck!
If I look for an instructor here in Romania, I'd probably know as much as I know right now. Maybe even less. Because they usually don't teach anything. But I think it would be nice if people from around here tried to explain why I'm wrong instead of just saying "hey, mr self-taught, you're wrong" if they see that I'm misinformed. For example, I learnt that there are really fluid karate styles as well, but I still think kung fu is more fluid. I might be wrong about it. If I am, why? Is there the same ammount of fluidity in them? Or, if there are any extreme stereotypes in kung fu besides the ones I've already named, which are they? Or maybe the most important one, what exactly is wrong with my comparison between kung fu and Japanese karate (besided the part with opposite styles, which is currently just an opinion)? What would a correct comparison look like?
 
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vladone97

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Please forgive me, I have only been training in Japanese martial arts since 1983. In that time I have gone to multiple martial arts conventions where 30-50 instructors of various styles of karate, kung fu, jiu jitsu teach their particular style. Instructors from literally around the world, North America, Europe, Russia, Korea, Japan, China and Australia. I have trained with multiple Jeet Kune Do instructors(Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell and a variety of their students). I have never seen anything like you are claiming. I have seen baseball bats being broken by shin kicks. Where exactly have you seen(or only read in a book) about this karate technique with a baseball bat?
It was in a video demonstrating the worst self defence techniques. That instructor really knew what he was doing because he was explaining the obvious truth that the tehnique is impossible. You must have had good instructors as well. But trust me, the bad ones who only want money will teach it.
 

frank raud

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It was in a video demonstrating the worst self defence techniques. That instructor really knew what he was doing because he was explaining the obvious truth that the tehnique is impossible. You must have had good instructors as well. But trust me, the bad ones who only want money will teach it.

So, no way to say it is an actual technique in karate, as demonstrated by a recognised authority, as opposed to an over the top exaggeration of a technique by someone claiming it is a ludicrous technique? Was the instructor able to pull it off in the video?
 
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vladone97

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So, no way to say it is an actual technique in karate, as demonstrated by a recognised authority, as opposed to an over the top exaggeration of a technique by someone claiming it is a ludicrous technique? Was the instructor able to pull it off in the video?
The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.

 
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donald1

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Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.

One of the rules that I was told when I started out was never to argue with an upperbelt no matter who is right
I don't know you nor your rank, but it's best to show respect to all and that's what I intend doing here too (your also an individual and like any individual respect is given)

Best of luck in your chosen style
 

frank raud

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The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.

[/Q

You did notice that at NO time did he say the technique was from Shotokan, Wadoryu, Goju ryu or any karate style, he said it was from a book, and he wanted people to guess what book it came from. It is not a technique of any recognised karate style, anymore than the second technique he shows is from any legitimate ninja ryu. There is a lot of crap out there, it hooks in some gullible youngsters. That does not make it a legitimate technique from a recognised style of karate(or kung fu!).
 
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Xue Sheng

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I live in Romania. The best instructor I could find here was one who was teaching Japanese karate forms he was calling "Jeet Kune Do". I don't know whether it was because he knew I wanted to learn Jeet Kune Do and tried to convince me to give him my money or was simplly confusing one with another, but it did happen.

So..... your 10 years of JKD may or may not be Karate.......and now your upset because someone called what you do karate....that may or may not be karate

As for the Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi...well
 

K-man

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I've never said that kung fu had no stupid stereotypes. I just said that karate had more of them. For example, the magical chi thing exists in karate as well. Some people think that's what you need in order to be able to do a knife hand strike.

Oh boy! You haven't seen traditional karate and now Chi is 'magical'. Chi isn't magical and it is an integral part of traditional martial art, both Chinese and Japanese. There is always robust discussion when Chi comes up in posts but believe me, Chi is real. ;)

I didn't say they were the best lessons. I would rather learn it the wrong way for free and try my best to figure out the correct way than pay to learn the same wrong way and get to think it's the right way.
This is not the most clever way to learn. About 50 years ago I taught myself to snow ski. It took another 10 years to 'unlearn' what I had taught myself. Same thing applies with martial arts. There are certain underlying principles. If you get them wrong it will take a long time to 'unlearn' them too.

Would you mind giving us the links to those videos?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FqTgZ9y3za0&desktop_uri=/watch?v=FqTgZ9y3za0

Do you know what I like here? I like that you're the only one who hasn't insulted me yet.

Count me in! I haven't insulted many people on this forum, I hope. :p

Again, I'm repeating myself. Karate has more extreme stereotypes than kung fu.

I think you need to give examples before you can make this type of statement.

But that's not the whole thing. First of all, traditional kung fu has no belts. Just training. Karate belts are simply a way to make students keep taking classes until they get the black belt and show that they are masters (which they usually aren't. Another strategy is to give black belts earlier than students deserve them so they won't quit because it takes too long).

I'm sorry but I have never seen this in karate. I know of it happening in one place a long time back but not now, not even in the McDojo. No one in any style gets a black belt and becomes a master. Getting a black belt is just the first step towards mastery that may or may not come your way fifty or so years later.


That's how it happens lately. And before you relate this to me in any ways, I've never claimed to be a kung fu master. Not to mention that no instructor=no belts.

​And with the type of instruction you are receiving you will never be a master. ;)

Secondly, there's what I like to call "karate logic". By that, I mean that karate as most dojos teach it now makes you think a real fight is much easier than it actually is and, thus, it won't prepare you for one. Like "Someone wants to attack you with a baseball bat? No problem. Just block the hit with your bare hands and counter. Don't worry. He won't punch you with his other hand".

I think you are confusing things here. That is not 'karate logic' at all. In fact I have never heard of it happening like that in any style of MA.


Before you say anything, there is the problem with the force generated by the bat, which greatly opposes (and usually outmatches) the force generated by your block.

We don't have 'blocks' in our Karate, or my Aikido, nor Systema.

There actually is a karate technique in which you are supposed to catch the bat with one hand. THE BAT! WITH ONE HAND! There's absolutely no chance to do that in a real fight without extreme training.

I agree with you totally. Wow! With one hand! I've done a helluva lot of karate training over many years and I've never seen that. Perhaps you could teach me it, please. :)


And the worst part, after you catch the bat, you have to break it in half (obviously with the other hand, which is also bare) and then hit the opponent's head with your half of the bat. The last step wouldn't be a problem if the first two steps were possible.

The instructor was explaining that nobody can pull it off. See for yourself. I found the video.

Yep! And he was also explaining that they were the two most stupid techniques he had ever seen proposed. Oh! ... and, as I said above, I have never seen a karate technique to catch a baseball bat. Maybe that's because I come from Australia and we don't play much baseball. Do you think we could do the same thing with a cricket bat? :)
:asian:
 
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Daniel Sullivan

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I do understand the differences. Again, I thought you were asking me to say what I tell MY FRIENDS when I explain everything (because their styles are obviously Japanese, so I only focus on the aspects of Japanese karate), not testing me to check whether I knew them. And I've never trained with an actual instructor because I live in Romania, where it's impossible to find someone to teach me martial arts instead of trying to steal my money.

Then you haven't done ten years of JKD or any Chinese styles.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I train, okay? It's just that I have to train on my own because, as I've said TWICE, I can't find anyone to train me propperly.
And training is a good thing. If you can't find an instructor then you do what you have to do. I don't know what the MA landscape in Romania is like, but lack of available schools can certainly be frustrating.

While I won't make any value judgments regarding your training, you shouldn't claim to have ten years in JKD and two years in two other Chinese styles when you have little to no formal training in anything.

The fact that you're training and are here striking up conversation is a good thing.

But you shouldn't go making value judgements and technical assessments of arts you've never studied on an internet forum. You clearly do not know much, if anything about karate ryu to make the statements that you make.
 
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vladone97

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So..... your 10 years of JKD may or may not be Karate.......and now your upset because someone called what you do karate....that may or may not be karate

As for the Bajiquan, Praying Mantis, Lian Huan Quan, Changquan, Tai Chi...well
Have you read my previous posts here as well or are you just trolling?
 
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vladone97

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Oh boy! You haven't seen traditional karate and now Chi is 'magical'. Chi isn't magical and it is an integral part of traditional martial art, both Chinese and Japanese. There is always robust discussion when Chi comes up in posts but believe me, Chi is real.
I was just giving an example of a stupid seterotype. That doesn't mean I believe it. Actually, why would I believe it if I call them stupid?
 
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