Chi and orientalism.

[Same Trick]

Sorry, this was a better link, I didn't have time to find it before I went to church

A Guide to Swedish Drill

What is Swedish Drill? Spend any amount of time scouring over Charlotte Mason literature, and you will find a unique term that most are unfamiliar with, Swedish Drill. The historical literature on Swedish Drill, often referred to as Swedish Gymnastics, is guaranteed to give you a good laugh...

theschoolyardco.com

Didn’t see your this post befor I wrote mine, but there it is that the gymnastics was adopted by various countries in Europe

 

[Same Trick]

That's very interesting, thank you

More on the Scandinavian path. There is an Norwegian guy living in England who teach what he say is his family martial art that stem back to the Viking era or even further back, it’s called - Stav, as in staff/stick and also as in ‘bokstav’ which means a letter of the alphabet, but in this case refers to the runes.
The core practice of this martial art as I understand is stance training kind of similar to Chinese Zhan Zhuang practice .
And as such I guess it involves energetics practice much like Qi/Chi

I remember reading about this a long time ago in the excellent British martial arts magazine Fighting Arts,

 

[Prince_Alarming]

More on the Scandinavian path. There is an Norwegian guy living in England who teach what he say is his family martial art that stem back to the Viking era or even further back, it’s called - Stav, as in staff/stick and also as in ‘bokstav’ which means a letter of the alphabet, but in this case refers to the runes.
The core practice of this martial art as I understand is stance training kind of similar to Chinese Zhan Zhuang practice .
And as such I guess it involves energetics practice much like Qi/Chi

I remember reading about this a long time ago in the excellent British martial arts magazine Fighting Arts,

Cool! Now I know what it's called I can google it! Thanks muchly

 

[Same Trick]

More on the scandinavian stuff - Glima wrestling and somethingbcalled ’Draga’(to draw/pull) that by the little description of it sounds like having similarities with Taiji(quan)
DRAGA — ACADEMY of VIKING MARTIAL ARTS

As it turns out, the creator of the “Swedish drill” was not only a gymnastics pioneer but also a master fencer and a (Glima)wrestler.


And here’s a Scandinavian Glima wrestling grandmaster(who happen to hail from the same town as I do (Malmö)) with a short answer on mental and spiritual awareness and eventual similarities to “oriental” martial arts
Martial Journal Spotlight: Glima Grandmaster Lars Magnar Enoksen - Martial Journal

 

[Prince_Alarming]

More on the scandinavian stuff - Glima wrestling and somethingbcalled ’Draga’(to draw/pull) that by the little description of it sounds like having similarities with Taiji(quan)
DRAGA — ACADEMY of VIKING MARTIAL ARTS

As it turns out, the creator of the “Swedish drill” was not only a gymnastics pioneer but also a master fencer and a (Glima)wrestler.


And here’s a Scandinavian Glima wrestling grandmaster(who happen to hail from the same town as I do (Malmö)) with a short answer on mental and spiritual awareness and eventual similarities to “oriental” martial arts
Martial Journal Spotlight: Glima Grandmaster Lars Magnar Enoksen - Martial Journal

COOL! Glima wrestling looks great fun, but they probably don't have it in the UK.

 

[Same Trick]

COOL! Glima wrestling looks great fun, but they probably don't have it in the UK.

I think Tyr Neilsen of the ”Viking Glima” webpage i linked to has built up some schools in the UK, as I understand he’s born in Britain.

Otherwise in Britain you have the Collar and Elbow/Gaelic wrestling, ok Irish I believe it is…or Welsh ? It’s maybe similar to Glima ?

Actually I participated in a few Glima classes(just a few) some 25 years ago, at Lars Magnar Enoksen’s(of the other link I posted) school. I was not used to wrestling, the experience I got out of it was it was quite tough for the hands/fingers since the training was mostly back-hold wrestling(also what I learned from that was I had a weak lower back), the class was just 5 participants so it was about an 1hour of “king of the hill” back hold wrestling matches, finishing with with about 20 min free-hold wrestling.
Apart from us five that was wrestling there were two other students that just came to watch and hang out, one of them had his hand in plaster, his fingers had seriously been dislocated, the other guy had this medical neck-collar to keep neck/head in place to heal, all injuries from the Glima training.

So perhaps if one has as profession or serious hobby as painting(artist) or musician or any other that needs “fine tuned” hands/fingers, maybe Glima is not the best choice. However Lars Magnar is himself an artist as in a comic book artist, so it works for him

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I think Tyr Neilsen of the ”Viking Glima” webpage i linked to has built up some schools in the UK, as I understand he’s born in Britain.

Otherwise in Britain you have the Collar and Elbow/Gaelic wrestling, ok Irish I believe it is…or Welsh ? It’s maybe similar to Glima ?

Actually I participated in a few Glima classes(just a few) some 25 years ago, at Lars Magnar Enoksen’s(of the other link I posted) school. I was not used to wrestling, the experience I got out of it was it was quite tough for the hands/fingers since the training was mostly back-hold wrestling(also what I learned from that was I had a weak lower back), the class was just 5 participants so it was about an 1hour of “king of the hill” back hold wrestling matches, finishing with with about 20 min free-hold wrestling.
Apart from us five that was wrestling there were two other students that just came to watch and hang out, one of them had his hand in plaster, his fingers had seriously been dislocated, the other guy had this medical neck-collar to keep neck/head in place to heal, all injuries from the Glima training.

So perhaps if one has as profession or serious hobby as painting(artist) or musician or any other that needs “fine tuned” hands/fingers, maybe Glima is not the best choice. However Lars Magnar is himself an artist as in a comic book artist, so it works for him

It works fine, actually. My hands are pretty mangled from makiwara training, lifting weights and working a physical job, but it doesn't seem to matter as in drawing- my kind of drawing certainly- the movement is supposed to come from the whole arm, including the shoulder.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

Yeah, thought as much. Not a mystical energy force that permeates the whole of creation at all.

Not mystical, people may define chi or qi or ki or prana or the Dao any way they like. Chi is like the steam off rice, intangible yet intrinsically there. One cannot hold it, yet it can be experienced. Some of the mumbo jumbo is real, but not without the physical reality. Some few people can do things others cannot do, but they are surrounded and reduced by the multitudinous charlatans, hucksters, and frauds that abound in the martial arts diaspora. So many, in fact that one must assume an extremely skeptical approach to any such claim. In my experience, the few that command some actual ability in these pursuits do not advertise or claim anything to anyone. In my opinion, we are all connected by something, whether that be Chi, the Dao, God, or whatever. That something goes on in spite of our attempts to define it or grasp at its meaning. In regards to those who claim some extraordinary or magical chi abilities, I always ask them the same question, “Can you do it while I hit you?” The real deal will have no issue with this. Easy to make big claims online or in videos, another thing altogether when faced with the physical reality of a public thrashing, as many have seen in recent years. Not all those with ability, have fighting prowess, that is a fact that should not be discounted. Still others, those with nothing to prove, and no interest in fame, though quite rare, do exist. Compare your stories of saints or great persons of ability in the past, certainly some, but not all, were of a truly extraordinary nature not experienced by most people. How can anyone truly know the limits or the whole contents of creation? Not so long ago people did not know about the existence of microorganisms which make up the vast majority of life on the planet…

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

The issue of "Orientalism" and "cultural appropriation" is IMO a total non-issue. "Appropriation" often does have a negative connotation of taking for one's personal benefit. But why else would one appropriate anything? The negative part is taking and changing a thing, keeping the label but mutating it into something else. A type of misrepresentation. In many cases I think this is what happened to "chi."

I like traditional Japanese homes, the clean lines and minimalism. If I could, my home would replicate this style, even down to the landscaping. It's pleasing to me. Not because I am pretending to be Japanese. I like Indian food but never thought of identifying as a Hindu, Sikh or Zoroastrian. Hawaiian shirts are popular at times. They are colorful and airy, just right for summer. Is any of this cultural appropriation? I suppose to a point it is, but I don't see it as bad. Rather it's a compliment to the culture. As long as it's not meant to demean or negatively misrepresent the culture I see nothing wrong with it.

Certainly, the entire history of Oriental TMA is built on "appropriation," being modified to fit into the needs of the various cultures from N. China > S. China > Okinawa > Japan > USA/Western culture and Korea. But this whole "appropriation" thing seems to be mainly a "woke-istic" burr up the Western ****. I don't think such a consideration crossed the Japanese psyche when they adopted Western style beds and toilets, not to mention McDonald's. In fact, it's part of the Japanese way to adopt that which is useful, regardless of its origin. I think there's even a specific term for this (a part of kaizen?). Practicality knows no borders.

Tempura is Portuguese, Hawaiian bread is Portuguese. Chorizo is Portuguese. I doubt the Portuguese are angry about it.

 

[Same Trick]

Tempura is Portuguese, Hawaiian bread is Portuguese. Chorizo is Portuguese. I doubt the Portuguese are angry about it.

When eating at restaurants here in China it’s almost impossible to not find chili pepper in whatever dish one order, chili pepper’s everywhere so it’s easy to think it’s always been so here.
But no, it was them Portuguese again, brought it from the Americas .
God bless them, I love Sichuan chili spicy

 

[Prince_Alarming]

Not mystical, people may define chi or qi or ki or prana or the Dao any way they like. Chi is like the steam off rice, intangible yet intrinsically there. One cannot hold it, yet it can be experienced. Some of the mumbo jumbo is real, but not without the physical reality. Some few people can do things others cannot do, but they are surrounded and reduced by the multitudinous charlatans, hucksters, and frauds that abound in the martial arts diaspora. So many, in fact that one must assume an extremely skeptical approach to any such claim. In my experience, the few that command some actual ability in these pursuits do not advertise or claim anything to anyone. In my opinion, we are all connected by something, whether that be Chi, the Dao, God, or whatever. That something goes on in spite of our attempts to define it or grasp at its meaning. In regards to those who claim some extraordinary or magical chi abilities, I always ask them the same question, “Can you do it while I hit you?” The real deal will have no issue with this. Easy to make big claims online or in videos, another thing altogether when faced with the physical reality of a public thrashing, as many have seen in recent years. Not all those with ability, have fighting prowess, that is a fact that should not be discounted. Still others, those with nothing to prove, and no interest in fame, though quite rare, do exist. Compare your stories of saints or great persons of ability in the past, certainly some, but not all, were of a truly extraordinary nature not experienced by most people. How can anyone truly know the limits or the whole contents of creation? Not so long ago people did not know about the existence of microorganisms which make up the vast majority of life on the planet…

About the whole charlatans thing though, do people really think that a genuine eastern master poss

Not mystical, people may define chi or qi or ki or prana or the Dao any way they like. Chi is like the steam off rice, intangible yet intrinsically there. One cannot hold it, yet it can be experienced. Some of the mumbo jumbo is real, but not without the physical reality. Some few people can do things others cannot do, but they are surrounded and reduced by the multitudinous charlatans, hucksters, and frauds that abound in the martial arts diaspora. So many, in fact that one must assume an extremely skeptical approach to any such claim. In my experience, the few that command some actual ability in these pursuits do not advertise or claim anything to anyone. In my opinion, we are all connected by something, whether that be Chi, the Dao, God, or whatever. That something goes on in spite of our attempts to define it or grasp at its meaning. In regards to those who claim some extraordinary or magical chi abilities, I always ask them the same question, “Can you do it while I hit you?” The real deal will have no issue with this. Easy to make big claims online or in videos, another thing altogether when faced with the physical reality of a public thrashing, as many have seen in recent years. Not all those with ability, have fighting prowess, that is a fact that should not be discounted. Still others, those with nothing to prove, and no interest in fame, though quite rare, do exist. Compare your stories of saints or great persons of ability in the past, certainly some, but not all, were of a truly extraordinary nature not experienced by most people. How can anyone truly know the limits or the whole contents of creation? Not so long ago people did not know about the existence of microorganisms which make up the vast majority of life on the planet…

I'm sure there are those who can really do it, but I'm equally sure none of them are running high profile youtube accounts

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

About the whole charlatans thing though, do people really think that a genuine eastern master poss

I'm sure there are those who can really do it, but I'm equally sure none of them are running high profile youtube accounts

I’m extremely skeptical of claims. In my experience, the vast majority are frauds or self deluded crack pots, that can’t do more than parlor tricks. That said, the real thing, though exceedingly rare, does exist.

 

[Prince_Alarming]

I’m extremely skeptical of claims. In my experience, the vast majority are frauds or self deluded crack pots, that can’t do more than parlor tricks. That said, the real thing, though exceedingly rare, does exist.

I'm aware of a few. Charlatans, that is. 'Nuff said. I suspect that the reality of internal martial arts is much like the reality of external ones- it's vastly different from what people think. When I told my mate that I did karate he seemed to think I'd had an experience similar to that of the karate kid. In reality, I went to a class at the youth club during my Duke of Edinburgh's award. The reality, though, is far better than the fantasy.