Homosexuality and training

[Robert Lee]

Damn, and I thought Robert was the biggest bigot on here. Then you go and compare homosexuality to murder, torture, and slavery. Congrats on raising the bar.

Honor killings, mutilation and child labor are all forms of coercion. They are morally reprehensible because they involve the use of violence or force on an unwilling victim. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice involving consenting individuals. No one is harmed by being gay. They are harmed by *******s who hate someone without reason and want to force their beliefs on someone else.

Is not it being a bigot if some one does not believe In what you think. Then I see more bigots because I do not believe being gay is right And then thy think I am the bigot. Looks like straight people are being put on the cross being forced to except Would you be a bigot if you did not like neo nazis. KKK adolf Hitler. I dont not believe in that either am i bigot because i feel thats wrong. In my state there has been much going on about putting Gay books in the children section at public librarys. Children are influenced on what they see and read and hear. They could NOt ban the books because People yell civil rights. so they put themon the highest shelfs so small children could not reach them. Forcing sexual beliefs on adults and children Its plain wrong. When some one said God made people that are gay. Yes God perhaps did Make Man and woman. Man and woman though turned gay Yes I read through recent studies That some NOT ALL children are born with extra genes That makes them more then likely to become GAy. Those I say Would either have to fight it harder or except I guess what they were born with. Still some kind of choice. Life deals us all a path that says we have a choice. That is why we are different in jobs in life styles. I never said A gay person is a bad person. I just can not believe or go along with that life style. If a Gay president run The USA and did a good job I would stand behind that person suport that person. Would I agree with the Gay life style No. But I would Believe in what that person Did. If I had a supervisor that was gay I would work just as hard and well for that person. If I was injured And a gay person helped me I would thank that person. And i would help that person too. I know There are several people in every town and city that a gay Or will become gay. They deserve to live there life and if they choose to change fine if not fine. But As I keep saying It does not have to become that every person has to agree with the life style. Many you would not know they were gay until they told you . And then some just throw it in your face. Used to be able to say the lords prayer in schools pledge alligence to the flag. Then liberal people thought it was wrong to do that Used to be able to know most your neighbors and trust them. Turning the other way Is not allways right. Our flag is freedom. Our country believed in god Our soldiers die for our freedom. You can thank a country like America for giving up certion rights so others can live in peace. But you can not keep pushing those so called rights to make other have to change there belief Yes I agree race issues are very wrong. Because all people share the same genatic make up. So all people are the same Just have different colored skin. In America wouldnt it be better to say I am an American In stead I am A white American Black. Red yellow. We are Americans The most versitle country in the world. But we still think in race and color. Wrong we are strong because we shared this land with all who came here to live and have a better life. Thats today I believe in this. But do I have to believe And support What I feel is wrong.if I do then America has lost all hope

 

[celtic_crippler]

Sex with a person other then man and woman Is a sin. That simple. No one can say its right. Liberal thinking is fine force that on some one its wrong.....

Christians never force their beliefs on anyone do they? LMAO No, that would be wrong and hypocritical wouldn't it?

Far as I know it takes a gay person to make another gay person. Some say they were born gay, Was they It sounds better to tell that.

WTF? You do know that two men/women can't reproduce independantly of each other...right? What? Do you think there's some secret gay-cloning factory in Switzerland or something? LMAO. Contrary to the facist hate-mongering rhetoric you've obviously been lapping up, the majority of homosexuals do not choose to be that way. No more than you choose to be heterosexual. Homosexuality is prevalent throughout the entire animal kingdom....it happens. Get over it. You know, at one time, not that long ago actually, many Americans were taught that black people were animals and actually had tails. The idea that black people have tails is no more a fact than homosexuals choosing their sexuality.

Many states have laws on the books that say it is a crime for certion sexual acts. Making what most gays do illegal. So is that law wrong. it was made to maintain moral values.....

This is true. But...those laws also state that it is illegal to have sex in any other position than the missionary position. They also state oral sex is wrong. Have you ever participated in oral sex? Have you ever had sex in any position other than the missionary position? If so, you're just as guilty.

And to try to label a person by a slandered name is to enforce there beliefs that its right. ...

Are you not labeling and treating an individual differently and 'enforcing' your beliefs on them?????

The first people that thought it wasHid what they thought or done...

I hate to burst your bubble buddy, but up until the time of Constantine (and in some areas even later) every civilization (Greek, Roman, Egyptions, etc) not only tolerated homosexuality, but accepted it as part of every day life. Did you know the ancient Spartans of Greec were notorius homo's? It's true. Study a real history book. No one thought it was wrong until Catholism place it's iron grip on the world. They also oulawed masturbation and anything else that might stand in the way of them BREEDING themselves into more powere. It's the oldest strategy in the book for taking over anything. Outnumber everyone else. How do you do that? BREED. Even thought the Greeks accepted homosexuality, they did have a law that stated every male must be married and have children by age 30. You have to reproduce to survive, but to say that homosexuality has always been viewed as being wrong is incorrect.

People can stop being gay if they choose to do so. .

Can you stop being heterosexual?

 

[Cirdan]

I guess we are heading off topic here, but whatever did gay people ever do to be labeled as sinners and wrongdoers? It is not like they waged war on the rest of humanity or anything....

Homosexuality was quite common among the Samurai by the way.

 

[celtic_crippler]

I guess we are heading off topic here, but whatever did gay people ever do to be labeled as sinners and wrongdoers? It is not like they waged war on the rest of humanity or anything....
.

...unlike .....the Holy Roman Empire. LOL. Christian Reformation anyone?

 

[Flying Crane]

Looks like straight people are being put on the cross being forced to except Would you be a bigot if you did not like neo nazis. KKK adolf Hitler.

Children are influenced on what they see and read and hear.

Forcing sexual beliefs on adults and children Its plain wrong.

Well, neo-nazis, the KKK and Adolf Hitler have long standing track records of atrocious crimes against whole populations of people, including mass murder, torture, bigotry, slave labor, and the like. I think this is not a fair comparison to homosexuals. Gay people are like you and I, they are everywhere in our society. Like you and I, they do their best to live a good life, work a job, have a family, etc. As a general population they don't murder, torture, and the like. Their only difference is in who they are attacted to on a sexual and emotional level.

You are correct, children are influenced by what they see and read and hear. But that does not mean that an otherwise straight child can be turned gay. Children can be influenced to be open minded, and accepting of those who are different from them, and not judging them based on differences in who they are. Hopefully any literature explaining homosexuality would be educational to a child, and help that child grow into an intelligent, understanding, and compassionate adult. But exposure to that literature or other written works will not turn a straight child gay, or vise-versa.

Nobody is forcing sexual beliefs on anyone. All that is being put forth is that perhaps the roots of homosexuality is something that you and perhaps others have had little exposure to and little understanding of. If you understand it for what it is, you will see that it really is nothing to be afraid of.

I have many gay friends, and I have had some very candid and open discussions with them about this very topic. Not one of them ever indicated that their homosexuality had anything to do with making a choice. They all knew, from the time they were very young and as far back as they can remember, that they felt an attraction to members of the same sex. For most of them, this understanding came at an age when they were too young to even understand sexuality at all, around the age of 4 or 5. They also knew, even at this young age, that they were different from most other people, and were different from what was expected of them. Some of them went into the closet and tried their best to become straight, to comply with society's expectations. Guess what? It never works. Eventually they all had to come out and admit who they are, or else live forever in a miserable life of denial and lies. Nobody should have to live that way. Everyone should be able to be true to who they are, and not have to live in fear or shame of things over which they have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I think this is one of the great misunderstandings about homosexuality. It really is not a choice. Homosexuals do not chose to be homosexual. There are homosexual, because that is who they are, plain and simple, like it or not. If you believe in God, well then, that is how God made them.

Exactly thank you for saying and just seconding what I had said earlier just clearer then I said it.

 

[MardiGras Bandit]

Flying Crane: I think you misunderstood me, I simply meant that dating someone of the same sex is a choice people make that affects no one but those two people.

Robert: nice try at a grab for the top spot, but DArnold is still the number one gay hater here. Forced AIDS tests and a NAZI/homo connection puts you in a close second though.

Question for you and DA: what about the gay lifestyle don't you agree with?

 

[Ping898]

There was no holicast for Gays. Far as I know it takes a gay person to make another gay person. Some say they were born gay, Was they It sounds better to tell that.

Uh....actually if you check the history books, gays were targeted by the Nazi's, it is where the pink triangle symbol that is now at times used to show gay pride comes from.

And what I would like to know is if it takes a gay man to make another man gay....who made that first man gay? his wife? Or can a gay woman make a man gay?

All joking aside, back to Terry's original question, someone being gay that I train with would not affect the way I train with them. In fact the only thing that would make me uncomfortable around a gay person is intimate details of their sex life, but quite honestly that info would make me unconfortable around a straight person too.
I would hope nothing I do would make a gay person uncomfortable to be around me. I would hope that at least around me, that if I only train with the person (we are not friends outside of MA) that the training would be all that matters.

 

[Xue Sheng]

On this choosing to be gay issue or being turned gay issue.....

I was once sitting with a friend of mine at a place I use to work and there was a woman there that was a lesbian and everyone knew it, she was not hiding it, and no one really cared. But one day this friend of mine said "the only reason that she was a lesbian was because she had not been with the right man yet". I responded with "You do realize by that logic you are not gay because you have not been with the right man yet" He agreed, said he was being an idiot and that was it.

I do not think it’s a choice that someone sits down one day and says hmm straight or gay....let me think......
I don't ever remember making a choice to like females, it just was. To bring the martial arts back into the discussion.... as Bruce Lee wrote in the Tao of Jeet Kun Do... "What is, is"

It is just whatever you are born to be........

 

[annie]

Hey Hapki68,

Actually she suffered memory loss and doesn't remember it happening. I guess that is the only good thing that came out of the incident. Unfortunetly the 2 kids were not apprehended, the busy streets of P-town at night can be crazy. We lived in Provincetown since 88'. I moved to brewster in 94'.

 

[Carol]

Wow. Suprised to see tough martial artists cringing and freaking out over OMG a gay person.

 

[Andrew Green]

Forcing sexual beliefs on adults and children Its plain wrong. When some one said God made people that are gay. Yes God perhaps did Make Man and woman. Man and woman though turned gay Yes

By labeling what they do as a sin against God isn't that what some people are trying to do? Or trying to remove any positive reference to this lifestyle? Just making it out as a sin?

Basically, yes you can do it, but it's a sin against God and is evil. But... that's not trying to force beliefs on someone...?

I can't remember ever seeing anyone try to say being Gay is right, and everyone should be that way. Other way around on the other hand, all sorts of people think there way is the only proper way.

"Accept us and our beliefs as not being evil" is not forcing their beliefs on you.

 

[Lisa]

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[AceHBK]

MODERATOR NOTE:

This conversation has become completely off topic. Please return to the original topic of the thread.

Furthermore, please keep the discussion at a mature, respectful level. Please review our sniping policy. Feel free to use the Ignore feature to ignore members whose posts you do not wish to read (it is at the bottom of each member's profile).

Thank you for your cooperation in this matter.

Lisa Deneka
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LOL...The voice of reason.
We are sooo off topic as I said earlier.

Did we even really address what Terry asked?

 

[Robert Lee]

Flying Crane: I think you misunderstood me, I simply meant that dating someone of the same sex is a choice people make that affects no one but those two people.

Robert: nice try at a grab for the top spot, but DArnold is still the number one gay hater here. Forced AIDS tests and a NAZI/homo connection puts you in a close second though.

Question for you and DA: what about the gay lifestyle don't you agree with?

The only thing I do not like is they same sex couple aspect Thats all. Being gay is not being human. I just can agree with that part. As a fact i just got back from a local visit with a church minister on this subject To see how he felt as well. He also has A local KENPO school. I told him about the disscusion. On thissubject And what I had said and what others have said. He stated to That he does not believe in it He feels its not a godly way. He would instruct a gay person but would also if any full contact training was to be done Make sure HIV or aids would not expose another person.And he said every body does not like every thing. We have that choice its not wrong. So I found 1 person that does agree. I am not trying to grab some spot. as a gay hater. its I dont hate you I just do not agree with what you do. As some has said lets get over it. believe your way I believe my way. far as Rome didnt it burn down.

 

[Brother John]

BACK ON TOPIC..........
​

In another post a member mention about being gay and if the training is any difference, well I have been training a gay guy for over a year and until today I had no ideal he was. Does this change our regular workout no, he is a tremendous addition to our school and is loved by all, he puts more time in training and has earned respect from me over the last year, weather or not he is or is not he has become a fine individual and a valiant student. He helps with the under belts and give so much back to the school that I could never return. I believe Martial Arts is a way for every single person to have a common ground and I personally hope he stays for a long time.
Terry

Wether or not anyone anywhere feels that homosexuality is right or wrong, sinful or not or feels it's inborn or chosen...it doesn't matter.

The Point is: Martial Arts training/study is good for EVERYONE.

IF one of my students opens up during class and says "HEY, I'm gay." I'd hope it'd do no more than raise a couple of eye-brows....simply for the fact that it has Nothing to do with the punches being thrown. ...and then I'd hope we'd just move on and I could ask them later to refrain from bringing up sexual, and all other non-martial arts related subjects, while in class.
IF anyone would quit because of a Gay martial artist in the class....then they are way too shallow for my class in the first place.

Pretty much it.

Your Brother
John

 

[Flying Crane]

Being gay is not being human.

Wow. While you base your position on religious beliefs, you are passing huge judgement against your fellow people. I think the teachings of Christ are dead set against that.

 

[Cirdan]

Being gay is not being human.

Enough said

 

[Carol]

Personally I think a good teacher can...and should...keep the class focused through nearly any kind of distraction.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Personally I think a good teacher can...and should...keep the class focused through nearly any kind of distraction.

I agree