upnorthkyosa said:
I agree. Its a non-issue.
Homosexuality and training
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I agree. Its a non-issue.
MardiGras Bandit said:
I couldnt do it personally. Would be too uncomfortable for me. Any man period. I am all for mixed BJJ. Any women willing to help me learn BJJ please let me know
No with this being a non issue im sorry many things are an issue. U can see it like a workplace, we all say that race, religion, etc shouldnt be an issue but those things ARE ISSUE no matter how you slice it. It is easy to sit here on a messageboard and say one thing but in the company of your friends say another. I am sure many people here will say that it is a non issue but if they had a gay student in their class, i am sure some name calling has gone on behind that persons back. Lets be honest. No matter how we feel it may not be an issue, it really is.
As a 28yr old black man everything is an issue. When people say "race shouldnt be in issue when dealing with....", im sorry race is an issue. Do I let it hinder what I do, no but I am aware that is has some bearing on things. This does not exclude a dojo. A dojo is no different than any other place I think those who may not be in that certain "class" may not see it as a issue but those who are will always see it like that.
Just like someone said that they wouldnt care if that person showed up in a dress and heels as long as they got changed into their Gi and worked hard it doesn't matter. Lets go right on and nip that in the bud right now. I dont see too many dudes being fine with that and working with that person and if they don't are they wrong for feeling that way?
I see many jumping on Grenadier but at least he is open and says how he feels. What is worse the people who feel that way but dont say anything out in the open but behind closed doors they say everything else.
Yes it should be a non issue but heck so should other social things, but since we are all human and have various opinions, it will always be an issue.
Nomad
Master Black Belt
"The most important thing in the world to me is my orgasm. The least important thing in the world to me is anyone else's" - Dennis Miller
'nuff said
'nuff said
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I don't care if he is gay or straight, it has nothing to do with martial arts training.
But I agree with Andrew Green, I draw the line at "short green men with lumpy heads and giant floppy ears"
But I agree with Andrew Green, I draw the line at "short green men with lumpy heads and giant floppy ears"
pstarr
Master Black Belt
Training is the same for everyone...everyone is expected to put forth their best effort at all times. I don't care what a person's sexual orientation is - I expect him to learn and train hard. Period.
Why is this topic hot? I don't think homosexuality or heterosexuality or ANY sexuality, for that matter, should be practiced in the dojo. Sexual preference has nothing to do with training.
OnlyAnEgg said:
In a ideal world I would agree, in on the mat we are all just there to train, no lifestyle issues, no gender issues. However we got a whole section to show that being a woman can be an issue at times, and they make up more then 50% of the population...
Andrew Green said:
At the risk of seeming insensitive, I'm not sure how gender differences and sexuality differences corrolate? The physical differences between male and female support the idea of different training issues. However, the sexual preferences of any one strain or another doesn't translate well for me into the same type of training issues that physical differences do.
Maybe I'm just a clod...I dunno
No, physical differences might not be there. But that is not the only issue, respect, acceptance, dealing with people uncomfortable training with them, ego's about who "should" be training... These are all issues that are discussed in the women's section that have nothing to do with their bodies.
AceHBK said:I couldnt do it personally. Would be too uncomfortable for me. Any man period. I am all for mixed BJJ. Any women willing to help me learn BJJ please let me know
As a woman I would feel less threatened by a gay man than someone with this attitude.
Andrew Green said:
I drempt, once, a perfect world...
I say: if one chooses to do the work, they deserve the respect I can give them as a martial artist. Everything else flows from that.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Interesting thread.
From my own experiences and observations, I suspect this may be a greater or lesser issue depending in great part on where someone lives, and the general attitudes of that area.
Example: I grew up in the upper Midwest of the US, in a very small town in a farming community, population slightly over 4000. While there are certainly individuals with more liberal attitudes, for the most part it can be extremely conservative. Uncloseted homosexuals are rare, almost unheard of, and I suspect that they would encounter a lot of difficulties, if not downright discrimination if they were open about who they are with regard to their sexual orientation. For the most part, people who I grew up with and suspected they were gay did not come out of the closet until they moved to a much larger city with more supportive attitudes and a supportive gay community. There are other individuals in my hometown who are, in my opinion, clearly gay, but they do their best to hide it and everyone around them at least pretends to believe they are straight. I believe that in this environment, homosexuality is a big issue, whether in or out of a dojo, due to a lack of exposure and comfort within the greater community. I think there can be a sense of fear, rooted in a lack of understanding and inexperience with gay people.
I have lived in San Francisco for about 12 years now. Homosexuality is much more accepted here, and gays are much more open and less secretive about their sexual orientation. One of my martial arts teachers is a lesbian, extremely skilled at her art, tremendously dedicated to running a successful school, and pours her heart into teaching her students, many of whom, men and women alike, are also gay. Given the community's greater comfort and acceptance of homosexuality, in this environment it often really is not an issue. People come to train, we all train together, and nobody cares one way or the other about their private lives outside the school. After training, people openly talk about what is going on in their lives, including their partners. Nobody bats an eye about it.
I believe the magnitude of the issue is dictated by one's own personal feelings on the subject, as well as by the degree of acceptance shown by the community at large.
From my own experiences and observations, I suspect this may be a greater or lesser issue depending in great part on where someone lives, and the general attitudes of that area.
Example: I grew up in the upper Midwest of the US, in a very small town in a farming community, population slightly over 4000. While there are certainly individuals with more liberal attitudes, for the most part it can be extremely conservative. Uncloseted homosexuals are rare, almost unheard of, and I suspect that they would encounter a lot of difficulties, if not downright discrimination if they were open about who they are with regard to their sexual orientation. For the most part, people who I grew up with and suspected they were gay did not come out of the closet until they moved to a much larger city with more supportive attitudes and a supportive gay community. There are other individuals in my hometown who are, in my opinion, clearly gay, but they do their best to hide it and everyone around them at least pretends to believe they are straight. I believe that in this environment, homosexuality is a big issue, whether in or out of a dojo, due to a lack of exposure and comfort within the greater community. I think there can be a sense of fear, rooted in a lack of understanding and inexperience with gay people.
I have lived in San Francisco for about 12 years now. Homosexuality is much more accepted here, and gays are much more open and less secretive about their sexual orientation. One of my martial arts teachers is a lesbian, extremely skilled at her art, tremendously dedicated to running a successful school, and pours her heart into teaching her students, many of whom, men and women alike, are also gay. Given the community's greater comfort and acceptance of homosexuality, in this environment it often really is not an issue. People come to train, we all train together, and nobody cares one way or the other about their private lives outside the school. After training, people openly talk about what is going on in their lives, including their partners. Nobody bats an eye about it.
I believe the magnitude of the issue is dictated by one's own personal feelings on the subject, as well as by the degree of acceptance shown by the community at large.
OnlyAnEgg said:
I'm with you fully, but, it IS an issue for some. They may be wrong, but it is.
and to some extent I think it's an issue for a lot more then admit it. I respect Ace's honesty above, and completely see where he is coming from.
Would there be people that I was uncomfortable rolling with? You bet. Not because of their gender or sexual orientation, but personality could do it. Someone that sexuallized it would definately make me uncomfortable, male or female.
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
What you do in your bedroom is your own business. Sexual orientation or related topics should have no impact on training in the dojo. If proper etiquette is enforced no one should be discussing their sex life while training....especially if children are present, regardless of your orientation.
IMHO
IMHO
Robert Lee
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I do not believe in what a gay person does. I have never taught a gay person. Before I would ever consider instructing a gay person I would want a docters note showing that person was not H I V or aids infected. As blood does get spilled from time to time. If that person did not have either I would consider training them. as long as the gay issue never came up As its not about M/A to talk it in a training class. But yes I do frown on it But can relize even though it is wrong. That person is still part of the human race So I would consider instruction And they must present there self as a man or women which ever real sex they are when they work out.
michaeledward
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Oh, Please ....
Shouldn't this thread more accurately be titled "Homophobia and training". After all, we are talking about whether we feel squishy about working with someone who is gay.
If Gay Gary puts on the Gi, and enters that matt to work out with all you straight people, don't you think he's a little freaked out about how different you are from him?
If there are gay people at the studio where I train, I hope they can talk about their partners in the same way I talk about my wife. I know about Jan's husband and brother. I know about Sharon's husband. I know about Martin's wife, Don's Wife, and Big Mike's wife. Why should I know about Billy's partner Frank?
I grab, punch, push, and kick people of the opposite gender in place that off the matt would be inappropriate, but on the matt, it's called training.
But more than that, after five and a half years, these training partners are more than just people to beat up upon. If I wanted to work out with a kicking pad, I could train in my basement.
Shouldn't this thread more accurately be titled "Homophobia and training". After all, we are talking about whether we feel squishy about working with someone who is gay.
If Gay Gary puts on the Gi, and enters that matt to work out with all you straight people, don't you think he's a little freaked out about how different you are from him?
If there are gay people at the studio where I train, I hope they can talk about their partners in the same way I talk about my wife. I know about Jan's husband and brother. I know about Sharon's husband. I know about Martin's wife, Don's Wife, and Big Mike's wife. Why should I know about Billy's partner Frank?
I grab, punch, push, and kick people of the opposite gender in place that off the matt would be inappropriate, but on the matt, it's called training.
But more than that, after five and a half years, these training partners are more than just people to beat up upon. If I wanted to work out with a kicking pad, I could train in my basement.
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