Homosexuality and training

[Cryozombie]

I grab, punch, push, and kick people of the opposite gender in place that off the matt would be inappropriate, but on the matt, it's called training.

These were my thoughts exactly when reading this thread.

 

[Kacey]

I do not believe in what a gay person does. I have never taught a gay person. Before I would ever consider instructing a gay person I would want a docters note showing that person was not H I V or aids infected. As blood does get spilled from time to time. If that person did not have either I would consider training them. as long as the gay issue never came up As its not about M/A to talk it in a training class. But yes I do frown on it But can relize even though it is wrong. That person is still part of the human race So I would consider instruction And they must present there self as a man or women which ever real sex they are when they work out.

Assuming that every gay person has HIV is like assuming that every drug addict has hepatitis C. You are in more danger from a person with hemophilia (as they get numerous drugs and blood transfusions) than you are from a homosexual.

Should such issues be discussed in the dojang? Only if, somehow, they impact training (which seems unlikely). Do I care what other people do in their personal lives outside class? Not a whit. Do I know homosexual martial artists? Yes, I do. Does it affect class performance, expectations, or contact? Not at all. And before you ask, I am a heterosexual female, and the homosexual person in question is female.

You don't approve. That's your choice. Ask yourself, however, why, given the general attitude that exists about homosexuality (and has been much worse in the past), why someone would choose a sexual orientation that leads to so much derision? I find a person's sexual orientation meaningless, as far as martial arts are concerned... in fact, I find a person's sexual orientation meaningless in general; I have had plenty of homosexual friends, and I have never had a problem with any of them - considerably less, in fact, than I have had with straight guys who think rather too highly of themselves.

 

[Robert Lee]

Assuming that every gay person has HIV is like assuming that every drug addict has hepatitis C. You are in more danger from a person with hemophilia (as they get numerous drugs and blood transfusions) than you are from a homosexual.

Should such issues be discussed in the dojang? Only if, somehow, they impact training (which seems unlikely). Do I care what other people do in their personal lives outside class? Not a whit. Do I know homosexual martial artists? Yes, I do. Does it affect class performance, expectations, or contact? Not at all. And before you ask, I am a heterosexual female, and the homosexual person in question is female.

You don't approve. That's your choice. Ask yourself, however, why, given the general attitude that exists about homosexuality (and has been much worse in the past), why someone would choose a sexual orientation that leads to so much derision? I find a person's sexual orientation meaningless, as far as martial arts are concerned... in fact, I find a person's sexual orientation meaningless in general; I have had plenty of homosexual friends, and I have never had a problem with any of them - considerably less, in fact, than I have had with straight guys who think rather too highly of themselves.

I was not raised to believe in this It is also said on the base of god That people shall become so far turned away from god the men will love men and women will love women. I have my beliefs And i will yeild those beliefs to a point. I do not hate gay people I just do not believe in what the do. I do not think they all have aids or hiv. But If I was or a student was to spr with contact and blood was spilled from each. Its safer to know your not at chance to get something like this. BOXERS that did drugs and get hiv. can not get in the ring agin because its not safe. I am not being rude. I just should be able to belive in my beliefs also And I do not want to know about what some one else does with there partner. Thats private and rude to talk about to others. Aids is spread by unsafe acts. in a M/A school you need to know if you have a person that may be positive. Be it a gay person or a drug user that shoots drugs. God made woman and man to be parteners not man and man or woman and woman. Friends yes thats fine beyond that well I will never believe its right. And I do know some who are gay But just do not believe the way they believe.

 

[MardiGras Bandit]

Robert, would you make a person you suspected of drug use get HIV tested? How about a straight guy you knew was sexually active? How about a person who just got a blood transfusion? How about a black guy, since they are statistically most likley to have AIDS?

There are a lot of gays who don't make a big deal out of it, you probably train with them and don't realize it.

 

[Andrew Green]

I am not being rude.

Saying a gay person would have to get HIV screened first? I'd say that's pretty rude...

Aids is spread by unsafe acts.

Being Gay is a unsafe act?

[/quote]
Be it a gay person or a drug user that shoots drugs. God made woman and man to be parteners not man and man or woman and woman. Friends yes thats fine beyond that well I will never believe its right. And I do know some who are gay But just do not believe the way they believe.[/quote]

Umm... straight non-drugging using people CAN get HIV too...

Your personal religious beliefs are not that accurate when it comes to the reality of the virus.

 

[hapki68]

I think I started all this.

Sorry... a long discourse on the good and evil of my (gay) existance was not my intent. My goal with my coming out meet and greet post was to be up front about who I am so I, too, could chat about my personal life with others on here (like I do with my straight buddies in my dojang) and ask if there were other gay guys out there for me to chat with about various MA gay-related issues. That's it.

But after reading all these postings on homosexuality, I feel obligated to say something more, since I seem to be the one gay guy in the hundreds of people on here freaking out some "brave" martial artists.

On one hand, I'm greatly tempted to write a biting retort to "Robert Lee" and the black guy (I forgot his name) who is ok with discriminatory attitudes. But I'm not going to. And believe you me, it's not because I don't have the ammo or the anger. (For example, everyone with even a high school education knows the vast, vast majority of the world's AIDs cases are in heterosexuals, particularly in Africa. Read a book, for god's sake.)

I actually think these guys' views are my best defense. If you'd rather have them in your dojo than me... so be it. I have a feeling that I (and all the straight people I know) wouldn't want to be in your dojo either.

This is the last I'm posting on this particular thread.

But let me conclude with this: if the threat of my sweaty hips grinding deep into your meaty *** scares the bejeesus out of you and gets you off balance... I say excellent. Keep picturing it boy. All the easier to hapkido chop you right in the neck.

<bow>

 

[Andrew Green]

But let me conclude with this: if the threat of my sweaty hips grinding deep into your meaty *** scares the bejeesus out of you and gets you off balance... I say excellent. Keep picturing it boy. All the easier to hapkido chop you right in the neck.

<bow>

:lfao:

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

Ok...you're cool. That's all there is to it

 

[michaeledward]

I think I started all this.

Sorry... a long discourse on the good and evil of my (gay) existance was not my intent. My goal with my coming out meet and greet post was to be up front about who I am so I, too, could chat about my personal life with others on here (like I do with my straight buddies in my dojang) and ask if there were other gay guys out there for me to chat with about various MA gay-related issues. That's it.

I don't know if you started all this or not. I missed your 'Meet and Greet' post, as I seldom look at those threads. But certainly, here, let me extend a welcome.

Mike

 

[AceHBK]

On one hand, I'm greatly tempted to write a biting retort to "Robert Lee" and the black guy (I forgot his name) who is ok with discriminatory attitudes. But I'm not going to. And believe you me, it's not because I don't have the ammo or the anger. (For example, everyone with even a high school education knows the vast, vast majority of the world's AIDs cases are in heterosexuals, particularly in Africa. Read a book, for god's sake.)

I actually think these guys' views are my best defense. If you'd rather have them in your dojo than me... so be it. I have a feeling that I (and all the straight people I know) wouldn't want to be in your dojo either.

This is the last I'm posting on this particular thread.

But let me conclude with this: if the threat of my sweaty hips grinding deep into your meaty *** scares the bejeesus out of you and gets you off balance... I say excellent. Keep picturing it boy. All the easier to hapkido chop you right in the neck.

<bow>

This is a great discussion and please dont stop posting. Messageboards are for discussion. Some people may change your views on things and you may change others on things and sometimes no one will change. We wont get anywhere if we all don't talk though. This is by far in my short time on this board the best thread I have read and been a part of. Debate here are USUALLY in a respectable way...lol. We are all different and have different ways of thinking. This is how we learn more about others. I like the heated debates over everyone just agreeing, b/c usually at the end some progress has been made from the initial beginning.
Welcome to MT......

Now..lol...

That black guy would be me. Do I condone discriminatory acts in dojo's ...no. Does it happen tho? Of course. My point was that I know it exists and I move on. If something about it prevents me from doing something...then so be it. I find another door to enter. U can hide being gay u cant hide being black.
Discriminatory practices happen all the time in different forms and fashions. Some are blatant while others are in the background.
If someoen in my dojo said they felt uncomfortable working with black students...would I be mad?? No. That is how they feel. I respect them MORE for coming out and saying it rather than hiding it.
If someone doesnt feel comfortable working with someone who is homosexual what is wrong with that? That is their personal preference. Just like dating only within your race.

In a perfect world no one would care and we wouldnt have these issues but we do. We just learn how to deal with them the best we can.

Many people say it doesnt matter and what not but in society it still does matter to some extint.




For example, if you had a school and you took in a gay student and other students felt uncomfortable. Those students came to you (teacher) and said they would prefer to not have a gay member at your school and threaten to leave if you keep that gay student.

Do you
A...keep the student and lose a lot of students (mind you, you are running a business and this is your source of income)
B...Tell the gay student that they cant train there anymore so that you can keep students and keep the doors open.

Think long and hard and give a honest answer. You have to earn a living.

 

[celtic_crippler]

But let me conclude with this: if the threat of my sweaty hips grinding deep into your meaty *** scares the bejeesus out of you and gets you off balance... I say excellent. Keep picturing it boy. All the easier to hapkido chop you right in the neck.

<bow>

Broke Back Karate! ROFLMAO! That's classic.

WHO CARES!? How would anyone even know unless they were told anyway. It's not like "Sexual Preference" is on the school application. Homo's are no different than the rest of us. They just happen to like the same gender. It doesn't mean they'r "Evil". Get over it! Hey....I look at it this way: The more gay guys there are the less competition there is for me! WOOT. More girls for me! How is that a bad thing? LOL

 

[Robert Lee]

One person thinks one way the other person a different way. I do not hate a gay person I do not look at them as aids infected people. They did not cause aids. I would be willing to offer instruction to a gay person. But Before any contact training I would want them to be honest. They would want me to be honest too If I was HIV or had Aids. I would expect the same from them. I would still stay with what I believe. I have that right as you have yours. If a person wants to get mad or upset because some one does not agree with this issue Then that person only sees there side. every one does not allways agree. And forums About M/A is not a place to bring sexual preferance into light to find others that are gay. If it relates to M/A then fine. And in this thread it goes on about being gay and being treated different at a school perhaps. Not every one wants to know if a person is gay. Todays world excepts more as long as it does not effect the person. Look whats happening in the world it some day effects you one way or the other. If a person is gay Thats there life Its not discrimination or racist or hate if a person does not want to just say fine A gay person can do anything they choose to do Be it M/A or a doctor. I should not have started on this thread But I did. If I offended others sorry for that Did I lie No I said my truth. I will not bleed into this thread any longer As I will not change what I believe. And others will keep what they believe.

 

[Ceicei]

I think I started all this.

Do not apologize. Sometimes the best discourses are about difficult issues. Being able to discuss them will help us have a better understanding of people and the world around us.

It is my opinion that martial artists should be able to face the challenges and to honestly examine our thoughts. One thing I've learned from studying in kenpo is to take a step back to look at my thought process, see what prejudices I may have, realize I am the one who needs to acknowledge my views and be more tolerant of how others are, and thus I become a better person.

- Ceicei

 

[Xue Sheng]

hapki68

Frankly gay, straight, bi, I don't care. It does not make a difference to me what 2 consenting adults do. As for training with any of the above, again I don't care, sexual orientation has nothing to do with MA in my opinion.

That being said, once again welcome to MT and I rather like Hapkido, it reminds me of my first martial art jujitsu.

 

[Kacey]

One person thinks one way the other person a different way. I do not hate a gay person I do not look at them as aids infected people. They did not cause aids. I would be willing to offer instruction to a gay person. But Before any contact training I would want them to be honest. They would want me to be honest too If I was HIV or had Aids. I would expect the same from them. I would still stay with what I believe. I have that right as you have yours. If a person wants to get mad or upset because some one does not agree with this issue Then that person only sees there side. every one does not allways agree. And forums About M/A is not a place to bring sexual preferance into light to find others that are gay. If it relates to M/A then fine. And in this thread it goes on about being gay and being treated different at a school perhaps. Not every one wants to know if a person is gay. Todays world excepts more as long as it does not effect the person. Look whats happening in the world it some day effects you one way or the other. If a person is gay Thats there life Its not discrimination or racist or hate if a person does not want to just say fine A gay person can do anything they choose to do Be it M/A or a doctor. I should not have started on this thread But I did. If I offended others sorry for that Did I lie No I said my truth. I will not bleed into this thread any longer As I will not change what I believe. And others will keep what they believe.

If you require homosexuals to declare their sexuality and submit to a blood test for HIV/AIDS prior to training, and do not require the same of heterosexuals (despite the many risk factors that cause people of all orientations to acquire HIV/AIDS), then you are biased, and are demonstrating prejudicial behavior. The only way you could require such testing is to require it from everyone - which is illegal under the laws of the US... sort of. The way it was explained to me, you can require someone to be tested - but you can't require them to disclose the results, because those results are personal and confidential.

You don't like homosexuals, and that's your choice. Despite your protestations to the contrary, however, you are prejudiced, and you are not open-minded. For their sakes, I hope no one walks into your facility and wants to join - but if they do, remember, for your own sake, that taking the action you describe will leave you open to a wonderfully expensive lawsuit, and one that you will lose. No matter your opinons on this subject, that's something you should consider. You can ask people about medical concerns, that's valid, but you cannot prevent someone from training in your facility without a blood test solely because of their sexual orientation, as that is a violation of their civil rights. This particular part of the issue has nothing to do with your opinion - it has to do with law and legal liability, and your opinion on the subject will not matter one bit.

 

[terryl965]

hapki68 I actually stated this thread do to a converstation me and a fellow student had today and he said he was a gay man and did it brother me and thought it would be a great post for decussion here at MT. So far it has been and I believe in what I said in the beginning he is a greta person and has become a fellow friend and MA'er and my school and family loves him no-matter what. Please keep posting your views and comment so we can all have an imtelligent converstation and grow together, just remember we cannot make everybody happy.
Terry

 

[Paul B]

Hapki68,

In my class what matters is that you show up and give 100%...anything else that has nothing to do with Hapkido is in the realm of "not my concern". I don't think that the joint locks get any better or worse depending on sexual orientation. I think any instructor worth his/her salt would tell you the same. Hapki!

 

[DArnold]

hapki68,
After being in several martial arts and teaching/training for 28 years you struck something I have never heard.

Would you enlighten me as to what some of the "MA gay-related issues" are?

I have delt with all sorts of topics:

• prejudice
• sexual harrasment
• religious issues...

but MA gay-related issues have never come up and I have worked out under/with and instructed many people of various sexual orientations.

Thanks

I think I started all this.

Sorry... a long discourse on the good and evil of my (gay) existance was not my intent. My goal with my coming out meet and greet post was to be up front about who I am so I, too, could chat about my personal life with others on here (like I do with my straight buddies in my dojang) and ask if there were other gay guys out there for me to chat with about various MA gay-related issues. That's it.

But after reading all these postings on homosexuality, I feel obligated to say something more, since I seem to be the one gay guy in the hundreds of people on here freaking out some "brave" martial artists.

On one hand, I'm greatly tempted to write a biting retort to "Robert Lee" and the black guy (I forgot his name) who is ok with discriminatory attitudes. But I'm not going to. And believe you me, it's not because I don't have the ammo or the anger. (For example, everyone with even a high school education knows the vast, vast majority of the world's AIDs cases are in heterosexuals, particularly in Africa. Read a book, for god's sake.)

I actually think these guys' views are my best defense. If you'd rather have them in your dojo than me... so be it. I have a feeling that I (and all the straight people I know) wouldn't want to be in your dojo either.

This is the last I'm posting on this particular thread.

But let me conclude with this: if the threat of my sweaty hips grinding deep into your meaty *** scares the bejeesus out of you and gets you off balance... I say excellent. Keep picturing it boy. All the easier to hapkido chop you right in the neck.

<bow>

 

[Robert Lee]

If you require homosexuals to declare their sexuality and submit to a blood test for HIV/AIDS prior to training, and do not require the same of heterosexuals (despite the many risk factors that cause people of all orientations to acquire HIV/AIDS), then you are biased, and are demonstrating prejudicial behavior. The only way you could require such testing is to require it from everyone - which is illegal under the laws of the US... sort of. The way it was explained to me, you can require someone to be tested - but you can't require them to disclose the results, because those results are personal and confidential.

You don't like homosexuals, and that's your choice. Despite your protestations to the contrary, however, you are prejudiced, and you are not open-minded. For their sakes, I hope no one walks into your facility and wants to join - but if they do, remember, for your own sake, that taking the action you describe will leave you open to a wonderfully expensive lawsuit, and one that you will lose. No matter your opinons on this subject, that's something you should consider. You can ask people about medical concerns, that's valid, but you cannot prevent someone from training in your facility without a blood test solely because of their sexual orientation, as that is a violation of their civil rights. This particular part of the issue has nothing to do with your opinion - it has to do with law and legal liability, and your opinion on the subject will not matter one bit.

I just had to come back. Well maybe I was wrong to say I would make a person get a blood test BUT I would be sure to ask for a honest answer. And thats not being prejudice Thats being safe. And If I ever had a gay person in a class They would be treated just the same other then I would ask them about HIV or aids. And expect the other students to treat them just asany other person. I would still believe my understanding of things. But not push my belief on that person just as I would never allow that person to tell me or any students why they are gay. its there life not mine or sombody elses. Just As person of any different race there is no race but the human race So I do not allow nor ever think of a person other then just as a person. And as I said a gay person is still a person so I do not look down on them for that I just do not believe its right. And that is not aginst any laws so for the last time for sure I did not mean to offend I did offend and will say I am sorry But I was honest just over stated my belief. Better to be truth full then to lie we just all can not believe what others believe. And to the person that said they were Gay I should not have thrown rocks yoyr way as this was wrong to voice My thought.s I could have been politite and kept those thoughts to my self. And as others have said welcome to this forum. I will keep my thoughts on this subject to my self and I do respect you for who you are I just do not agree with the life style.

 

[Brandon Fisher]

The gay issue is a non issue with me it simply doesn't matter to me. The HIV / AIDS thing does because it can put other people at risk that does not mean I would refuse to train someone with it but somethings would be out due to the risk. The gay people I know did not chose the lifestyle they were born that way. This is friends and some family to. The gay community has been very supportive and helpful to another family member (who is straight) also and that I greatly appreciate.

Hapki68,
I commend you for your honesty and openess. I wish you all the best and much success. If I can ever be of help let me know.