Master Vs. Instructors

[terryl965]

Ok everybody knows I personally own and operate my own school, this does not pertarn to me.

A Master friend of mine is having a problem with his understudy following his way of training, he puts together a lesson plan like we talked about and he starts the class of with a brief warm-ups and hands the class over to the other instructor. Well as it seems to be he will always change what the Master wants done during class, he says nothing during class for he does not want any students to know there are differents of opinion here.

I informed the Master to pull his instructor all together and go over the way he would like the class to be runned when he hands it over, this way his second does not feel he is being singled out. If this doesnot work then he has no alternative but to put his second in his place.

What would you guys give as suggestion?
Terry

 

[Flying Crane]

If the senior really wants the class run a certain way, maybe he needs to run the entire class himself. Any time someone else teaches, it will be different, either accidentally or intentionally. We are all different and this will always translate into how a class is run. When someone else is given authority and is handed the reins, a certain amount of control is given up. If the senior doesn't want to give up the control, then he needs to stay in the driver's seat, so to speak.

 

[Martial Tucker]

Ok everybody knows I personally own and operate my own school, this does not pertarn to me.

A Master friend of mine is having a problem with his understudy following his way of training, he puts together a lesson plan like we talked about and he starts the class of with a brief warm-ups and hands the class over to the other instructor. Well as it seems to be he will always change what the Master wants done during class, he says nothing during class for he does not want any students to know there are differents of opinion here.

I informed the Master to pull his instructor all together and go over the way he would like the class to be runned when he hands it over, this way his second does not feel he is being singled out. If this doesnot work then he has no alternative but to put his second in his place.

What would you guys give as suggestion?
Terry

I'm not a Master, but I am the senior BB in my TKD class. The Master of my school is a doctor. As such, I am often called upon to run a class when he gets tied up with work. Sometimes he gives me a specific agenda for a class, sometimes he makes it very general, trusting me to formulate a lesson plan based on the general concepts he wants covered. Regardless, in my mind it is unthinkable that I would alter the plan that he gives me. If I did, I would expect to be invited to a "sit-down" to discuss why. In my mind, this would be akin to a soldier disobeying a direct order from a superior in the military.

You're a nice guy Terry, I wouldn't expect (or give) the courtesy of a "group meeting" if an instructor went against the directions of the school Master.

 

[arnisador]

I agree with the suggestion to pull all the instructors together and reiterate expectations...but a person also needs some freedom to teach their own way. Just how bad is it? Might your friend be having trouble relinquishing some control?

 

[Sin]

I don't have a "Master", the only Master I have is Jesus Christ. I do have a Sensei, a teacher. The moment someone calls themselves a master is the moment there head gets inflated. Not to offend anyone, but no one is perfect, so no one here is a master. Were all still learning. Now if the Head Instructor or Sensei allows his student to run class then Sensei is using his/her own judgement on allowing his Senior /Junior student head up class. It would be a good idea to get them all together and discuss the protocol of running class is.

 

[jdinca]

Ok everybody knows I personally own and operate my own school, this does not pertarn to me.

A Master friend of mine is having a problem with his understudy following his way of training, he puts together a lesson plan like we talked about and he starts the class of with a brief warm-ups and hands the class over to the other instructor. Well as it seems to be he will always change what the Master wants done during class, he says nothing during class for he does not want any students to know there are differents of opinion here.

I informed the Master to pull his instructor all together and go over the way he would like the class to be runned when he hands it over, this way his second does not feel he is being singled out. If this doesnot work then he has no alternative but to put his second in his place.

What would you guys give as suggestion?
Terry

I think you made an excellent suggestion. I can't imagine being given a direction by our Master on running a class and not following it. It just isn't done. If it's an education or training issue, educate or train. If it's attitude issue, have a discussion but if he still shows disrespect to the Master in the way it appears, then he needs to be replaced.

At the very least, he needs to make sure his whole teaching staff knows where he stands and what he wants done. Someone undermining his authority like that(if that is the case) can bring the whole school down.

 

[TigerWoman]

If the Master has gone to the trouble of formulating a lesson plan, in respect to him/her it should be tried to be followed. At the most, I get just a suggestion for my classes and that is rare. But the workout planned for a black belt class won't work for an overweight women's class. Sometimes it takes some impromptu planning so the workout is advantageous to all. But I don't think this is what happened there. The instructor should have attempted to follow what the master requested, if it was direct and specific and since he knew the students who were going to be at that class. If he was say, just doing sparring combinations and the instructor did a different variation or adds his viewpoint, then that I think is a perogative of the instructor who is actually teaching the class. After all the master, gave him that leeway and he did leave him in charge.

But, in another scenario, if the Master just doesn't show up or call on a irregular basis, I don't feel the highest black belt should have to bear the burden of teaching the class necessarily either. After all it is not his school, and he is also a paying student there for a workout/instruction. I'm all for putting back into the martial arts but a situation like this on a continuing basis without pay, notification, or even a thanks, is not right either when it is just expected that "someone" will take over.

I would have the meeting of the black belts and inform them of the program and have the lesson plans perfectly clear that are to be taught. Perhaps the master needs to have some classes and put down all the details on paper, how he wants it to be taught too. Because as others have said, everyone changes it a little and individuality of teaching, style, comes in to the mix. Instructors should teach technique, sparring, etc. as they were taught but I think the master must have to realize that the black belts aren't clones of him and allow some variation as black belts learn to become instructors and eventually masters with a style of teaching of their own. TW

 

[Jonathan Randall]

I think that they, instructor and headmaster, need to sit down together and work this out themselves. Perhaps both need to give a little - the head, some leeway to the black belt, the black belt more subordination and respect to the headmaster. However, changing an ordered class contrary to direct instructions is insubordination and does need to be addressed decidedly. The black belt should follow instructions as given, then later call the instructor aside and ask if he can have more leeway in planning the lessons he instructs

Sin, while there are some who take the master title to mean "superior being, enlightened one and spiritual guide", in most circles it is simply a position they have earned by "mastering" the essentials of their art - in the same way a chess master has mastered hers or his art.

It is true, a man cannot serve two masters (per the Bible as well as non-Bibilical wisdom), but this is more a matter of the master "being headmaster" of a school.

 

[MJS]

Ok everybody knows I personally own and operate my own school, this does not pertarn to me.

A Master friend of mine is having a problem with his understudy following his way of training, he puts together a lesson plan like we talked about and he starts the class of with a brief warm-ups and hands the class over to the other instructor. Well as it seems to be he will always change what the Master wants done during class, he says nothing during class for he does not want any students to know there are differents of opinion here.

I informed the Master to pull his instructor all together and go over the way he would like the class to be runned when he hands it over, this way his second does not feel he is being singled out. If this doesnot work then he has no alternative but to put his second in his place.

What would you guys give as suggestion?
Terry

If there is a specific lesson plan that the head inst. wants to do, then the inst. that is teaching the class should follow that plan. I agree with him not saying anything during the class. That is certainly something that should not be discussed IFO the class. I would however speak to the inst. as soon as the class is over.

Mike

 

[Sin]

I think that they, instructor and headmaster, need to sit down together and work this out themselves. Perhaps both need to give a little - the head, some leeway to the black belt, the black belt more subordination and respect to the headmaster. However, changing an ordered class contrary to direct instructions is insubordination and does need to be addressed decidedly. The black belt should follow instructions as given, then later call the instructor aside and ask if he can have more leeway in planning the lessons he instructs

Sin, while there are some who take the master title to mean "superior being, enlightened one and spiritual guide", in most circles it is simply a position they have earned by "mastering" the essentials of their art - in the same way a chess master has mastered hers or his art.

It is true, a man cannot serve two masters (per the Bible as well as non-Bibilical wisdom), but this is more a matter of the master "being headmaster" of a school.

Agreed...i have just had bad experinces with people locally who call themselves master...Just because there school grossed the most income that year within there organization...No offence to anyone on here with the tittle of Master. ::bow::

 

[Sin]

Agreed...i have just had bad experinces with people locally who call themselves master...Just because there school grossed the most income that year within there organization...No offence to anyone on here with the tittle of Master. ::bow::

Thats the first for bones....wierd...

 

[Grenadier]

I'll just use the terms "chief instructor" versus "instructor" to differentiate.

At my school, the chief instructor has firmly stated, that there are a core set of techniques that must be taught. We hold instructor meetings each week, and every time, a rundown of a list of "things to do" is given. Each instructor has some leeway in terms of how such things are taught, or when they are taught, but regardless of who teaches the class, at the end of the week, the students are still going to get the same instruction, with just some different flavorings.

There are several of us in the school that came from different martial arts styles as well, and it can be seen in the ways we teach. Still, that doesn't change the fact that we teach one style of Karate, and that everyone's teachings are still "in line" with the Soke's methods.

You can't really squash someone's individuality; if anything, it's these differences between each other that help the style improve and change as needed. However, at the same time, there's really not much room for hot-dogging in the dojo.

 

[jdinca]

hot-dogging in the dojo.

I may have to steal that one.

 

[tshadowchaser]

The student should follow the plan set out for him as much as possible. However there are times when something will happen that determins a change in direction of the class for the night ( it just happens sometimes), therefor I can understand a class moveing in a different direction once in a great while.
Now haveing said that I think the student is just doing his own thing and needs to be taken down a few pegs by the head instructor. I good lecture in front of the whole school may be needed.
Students who constantly do this are often the ones trying to build a small community inside the school that they take with them when they break from the school and often tend to say things behind the instructors back

 

[TigerWoman]

Sin, while there are some who take the master title to mean "superior being, enlightened one and spiritual guide", in most circles it is simply a position they have earned by "mastering" the essentials of their art - in the same way a chess master has mastered hers or his art.

It is true, a man cannot serve two masters (per the Bible as well as non-Bibilical wisdom), but this is more a matter of the master "being headmaster" of a school.

This is so true. I had difficulty with that title at first too, until I realized that master of is just a title of rank like professor.

I went into a church once, supposedly to meet the TKD master afterwards but came a little early so went in and sat down. After church was over, the pastor noticed me and introduced himself and queried me. Oh, I said, (really unthinking) I was to meet Master ----- here. The look, he gave me and then he said the only master here was Jesus Christ. So, I had to explain but I still don't think he understood. One of those faux pas. TW

 

[Sin]

This is so true. I had difficulty with that title at first too, until I realized that master of is just a title of rank like professor.

I went into a church once, supposedly to meet the TKD master afterwards but came a little early so went in and sat down. After church was over, the pastor noticed me and introduced himself and queried me. Oh, I said, (really unthinking) I was to meet Master ----- here. The look, he gave me and then he said the only master here was Jesus Christ. So, I had to explain but I still don't think he understood. One of those faux pas. TW

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Both I and my current instructor are Christians, yet it doesnt seem to be a problem for me, or him, for me to call him Master (as he is 7th Dan).

It may have somthing to do with he fact that he is Korean and it's possible that the English term "master" means something different in how it's meant as an Engish equivalent of a Korean, than how we would normally mean the term in native English.

Could be also that he is not *my* Master but simply a Master of the Art we both practice and it's a sign of respect

 

[Gene Williams]

"Any man who calls himself a "Master," probably isn't."

 

[Sin]

"Any man who calls himself a "Master," probably isn't."

I agree with you...now being called a master by tittle only, isn't such a big deal...but when someone is a self proclaimed master of Martial Arts because his school grossed the most money that year, then he/she defenitly isn't a master...masters are perfect in everyway...So if your hangs a foot over your belt then...you were in good shape at one time (or you should have been) or someone took pity on you...Being a master takes more than just knowing your stuff, you gotta be able to do it, and myself being harder on myself than any other person that I help instruct, I don't feel that I will ever consider myself a master, because I still make mistakes. Now when I get to my 50th anniversery of training, and someone wants to call me master, i won't mind someone giving me the tittle...But right now, i am a student, Dai Sempi to everyone at my school, which is the tittle I've been given. (means most senior student, our school still new)...i think were all students of the Martial Arts...Nothing more..tittles are another thing all together, but if you ask me, I wouldn't want to be called master even though I've earned the tittle...people then come to expect too much.

 

[MJS]

I agree with you...now being called a master by tittle only, isn't such a big deal...but when someone is a self proclaimed master of Martial Arts because his school grossed the most money that year, then he/she defenitly isn't a master...masters are perfect in everyway...So if your hangs a foot over your belt then...you were in good shape at one time (or you should have been) or someone took pity on you...Being a master takes more than just knowing your stuff, you gotta be able to do it, and myself being harder on myself than any other person that I help instruct, I don't feel that I will ever consider myself a master, because I still make mistakes. Now when I get to my 50th anniversery of training, and someone wants to call me master, i won't mind someone giving me the tittle...But right now, i am a student, Dai Sempi to everyone at my school, which is the tittle I've been given. (means most senior student, our school still new)...i think were all students of the Martial Arts...Nothing more..tittles are another thing all together, but if you ask me, I wouldn't want to be called master even though I've earned the tittle...people then come to expect too much.

I think that you hit the nail on the head! As you said, its how well you can do the material, how well you understand it, etc., that makes the difference. People put on a flashy title, in hopes that people are going to think, "Ohhh, look at him! He must know his stuff because he has 10 stripes and goes by the title Master." Sorry, but to me, its not going to make a difference if they have 100 stripes, I'm looking at the performance of the person.

Mike