Do BETTER martial artists train ONE art or MANY arts?

[Touch Of Death]

If I am using different ideas than prescribed, it simply means I don't understand the material well enough.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I do Kenpo; so, I will put it in that court. When I do a move my teacher did not teach me, or do it a move he did teach me in a different style, that is fine, but I must be able to do the stuff the way he says, and I must show him I can use kenpo, and only kenpo to get through any exercise, and that includes sparring. I don't make rank unless I can do that.

Frankly, that still makes no sense to me.
If we're sparring, and I throw a ridge hand, are you honestly going to claim you can tell if I learned it in Kenpo or TKD or some other art?
Or are you talking about pre-arranged sparring, which are intended to drill specific combos?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Frankly, that still makes no sense to me.
If we're sparring, and I throw a ridge hand, are you honestly going to claim you can tell if I learned it in Kenpo or TKD or some other art?
Or are you talking about pre-arranged sparring, which are intended to drill specific combos?

I can tell if you are doing it kenpo-ish, yes.

 

[Touch Of Death]

Frankly, that still makes no sense to me.
If we're sparring, and I throw a ridge hand, are you honestly going to claim you can tell if I learned it in Kenpo or TKD or some other art?
Or are you talking about pre-arranged sparring, which are intended to drill specific combos?

You either did, or did not follow the rules. LOL

 

[Dirty Dog]

I can tell if you are doing it kenpo-ish, yes.

OK... so watch the video here and tell me which techniques I learned in what system.

 

[Touch Of Death]

OK... so watch the video here and tell me which techniques I learned in what system.

One of those takedowns could just as well have been Kenpo, but I can't name your other systems of motion.

 

[Dirty Dog]

One of those takedowns could just as well have been Kenpo, but I can't name your other systems of motion.

That's kind of my point... in a moving (as opposed to static situation like pre-arranged sparring) you're not really likely to be able to tell if a technique is Kenpo, TKD, Aikijujutsu or any other unarmed system. There's way too much overlap of techniques, and stylistic differences are limited or non-existent under anything other than a forms-type situation.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That's kind of my point... in a moving (as opposed to static situation like pre-arranged sparring) you're not really likely to be able to tell if a technique is Kenpo, TKD, Aikijujutsu or any other unarmed system. There's way too much overlap of techniques, and stylistic differences are limited or non-existent under anything other than a forms-type situation.

I'm talking about the way you move, the path you choose, where you return, was it counter-balanced or not, foot positions, depth of stance, etc.

 

[Touch Of Death]

The ridge hands, that everybody likes, violate at least two Kenpo principles; so, you may see a groin shot, or one hugging center line up to the throat, but the big horizontal thing is a no no.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The ridge hands, that everybody likes, violate at least two Kenpo principles; so, you may see a groin shot, or one hugging center line up to the throat, but the big horizontal thing is a no no.

I think big horizontal "haymaker" style strikes, regardless of if they're with the fist or ridgehand, violate the principals of most (if not all) martial arts.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't use one, if the opportunity presented itself and that seemed to be the highest percentage move at that particular point in time...

 

[seasoned]

From a purist viewpoint and a traditionalist at heart I started one art and have held fast to it for many years. What I have found over the years, provided that your chosen art is of a vintage from times pasted, will contain all elements of a combative nature along with it's special uniqueness provided by the creator, to fit all elements of movement. At first glance this art will possess a limited repertoire of techniques that are quite functional in and of themselves. But, just below the surface, hiding in plain sight, is a complete art saved for those that search.
The words "complete art" are exactly what the modern practitioners are seeking when they, in their quest, look to put together a "complete art" by cross training.
Creators of old were very much ahead of the curve in the respect to a complete combat system to handle any and all situations. Why all the secrecy you may ask, because these systems were born out of times where secrecy meant your continued existence.
Now a days we live in a very fast pace world where we need to recognize fruits of our labor immediately and there is nothing wrong with this type of thinking. I and others have chosen a different path of which ends up in the very same place at the other end.
The arts are there to enjoy for everyone, and contain something for everyone. The important thing to always remember is, love what you do and strive to improve yourself daily and the rewards will be enormous for those that commit.

 

[Danny T]

One of those takedowns could just as well have been Kenpo, but I can't name your other systems of motion.

They are human motions. And these motions are used within many systems; Because we are all human. The presentations within form and drills are specific but within fighting, real unscripted fighting, it will often be difficult if not impossibe to define motions to a particular system.

 

[Touch Of Death]

They are human motions. And these motions are used within many systems; Because we are all human. The presentations within form and drills are specific but within fighting, real unscripted fighting, it will often be difficult if not impossibe to define motions to a particular system.

That isn't true. If one system has you moving one way, and another system has you moving another way. I can tell the difference. LOL

 

[Touch Of Death]

I think big horizontal "haymaker" style strikes, regardless of if they're with the fist or ridgehand, violate the principals of most (if not all) martial arts.

But that doesn't mean I wouldn't use one, if the opportunity presented itself and that seemed to be the highest percentage move at that particular point in time...

Call us violent and mean, but the culture of our school is to show students why unsafe behavior is unsafe.

 

[Jenna]

Now a days we live in a very fast pace world where we need to recognize fruits of our labor immediately and there is nothing wrong with this type of thinking. I and others have chosen a different path of which ends up in the very same place at the other end.

Love this thoughtful response! I wonder can I ask do you imagine that this need we have to see the fruits of our labour immediately does this mean people now have less perseverance and are less persistent with their first or main art? Might this be why people move on or try to find MA pastures greener do you think? Jxxx

 

[Xue Sheng]

Life is very fast past today and patients has taken a major hit.... that is my opinion as to what that means.

Once had a discussion with a Taiji/Xingyi sifu who was a student of Wang Peishang. We were discussion Santi Shi. He said his teacher stood in Santi for hours a day and he had to stand for hours as well. He also agreed BP Chan that 20 minutes per side was a good start. But he added "who has time today to stand in Santi for hours" life is to fast paced today. He would like his students to stand at least 20 minutes per side per day but he understood that it was not always easy to take 40 minutes out of a day and just stand. So he felt 20 was better than 15, 15 was better than 10 10 was better than 5 and 5 was better than nothing.

So if you know combine arts, Aikido in and of itself takes years to understand and people simply do not have the patients or the time (sometimes that belief comes from lack of patients) to dedicate to it. So they combine arts to get where they feel they need to go faster. But then there are also cases of very talented people who want to train multiple arts just because they enjoy them, they are taking the time and they are able to keep the basic concepts separate within themselves.

 

[Hyoho]

Life is very fast past today and patients has taken a major hit.... that is my opinion as to what that means.

So if you know combine arts, Aikido in and of itself takes years to understand and people simply do not have the patients or the time (sometimes that belief comes from lack of patients) to dedicate to it. So they combine arts to get where they feel they need to go faster. But then there are also cases of very talented people who want to train multiple arts just because they enjoy them, they are taking the time and they are able to keep the basic concepts separate within themselves.

Over the years I have made lots of patients. I have been a patient myself through overtraining and injuries.

But seriously, if you dont know something well you fill in the gaps with something you learned from another art. The point is do you want to learn "a particular art" or just mess it up? Its hard enough as it is trying to hand something down that has been taught for generations.

 

[Shajikfer]

Those that study many years and learn from other arts as they go are opening there eyes and mind to different possibilities and expanding their knowledge. Those that dedicate themselves to a lifetime of training acknowledge that there is always more to learn

I could not agree more. One must explore their potential, but there is a right way to do so in exploring the arts, and a wrong way.

"I do Kenpo; so, I will put it in that court. When I do a move my teacher did not teach me, or do it a move he did teach me in a different style, that is fine, but I must be able to do the stuff the way he says, and I must show him I can use kenpo, and only kenpo to get through any exercise, and that includes sparring. I don't make rank unless I can do that. "

Tried to quote you Touch Of Death, but I'm not sure it worked. What you are saying is also true. When practicing an art, even two different styles of the same art, such as say IKCF Kempo and Japanese, you should be able to adequately distinguish between what style of the technique you are doing. I believe in exploring different arts, but I also believe in doing an art with its purity and integrity intact. I.E. if I am doing Moo Duk Kwan TKD and in a MDK style form introduce ITF style movements, I have sacrificed the purity of the MDK form I am doing. I believe having a broader repertoire is never a bad thing, but if going to do so one must distinguish between which art they are doing, and be deliberate when they amalgamate them together. This can be difficult to do sometimes.

 

[Danny T]

That isn't true. If one system has you moving one way, and another system has you moving another way. I can tell the difference. LOL

Give an example please.

One of those takedowns could just as well have been Kenpo,...

Could just as well have been but was it?

... but I can't name your other systems of motion.

Did you not post this about a video from DD where you were unable to define the motion to a particular system?

 

[Jenna]

[QUOTE="Xue Sheng, post: 1695390, member: 7937"So they combine arts to get where they feel they need to go faster. But then there are also cases of very talented people who want to train multiple arts just because they enjoy them, they are taking the time and they are able to keep the basic concepts separate within themselves.[/QUOTE]
Agree completely with your thoughts XS.. wonder (and have a concern) how easy it is in reality to do as you say and keep concepts (particularly ones that might overlap in outcome) separate? What do you think? Jx