"classic" martial art vs "modern" martial arts

[BorntoRaiseHell]

 

[Gyakuto148 157]

I cant ser youtube, but here’s plenty of Chinese tubes to watch, I found a vid of Ohtsuka the younger do Seisan kata, I really liked that one,

I have to say, I’m not a fan of Hironori Ohtsuka II’s interpretation of Wado Ryu. He’s has very little in the way of ‘kime’ in his techniques and so it looks too soft and imprecise. It was his installation as head of Wado Ryu that began the fragmentation of Wado Ryu worldwide since Suzuki Tatsuo 8th Dan Hanshi, with his exceptional technical ability, fighting ability and knowledge, was seen as the natural successor to the founder. But Japan is a nepotistic culture so in goes Ohtsuka II as the head of Wado Ryu. Also, I’m sure he’s had his teeth done, Hollywood style, and they’re too big and white; they’re weird!

 

[BorntoRaiseHell]

I have to say, I’m not a fan of Hironori Ohtsuka II’s interpretation of Wado Ryu. He’s has very little in the way of ‘kime’ in his techniques and so it looks too soft and imprecise. It was his installation as head of Wado Ryu that began the fragmentation of Wado Ryu worldwide since Suzuki Tatsuo 8th Dan Hanshi, with his exceptional technical ability, fighting ability and knowledge, was seen as the natural successor to the founder. But Japan is a nepotistic culture so in goes Ohtsuka II as the head of Wado Ryu. Also, I’m sure he’s had his teeth done, Hollywood style, and they’re too big and white; they’re weird!

He was pretty porky for a while but he lost weight
Kono was very present in Germany

 

[BorntoRaiseHell]

 

[BorntoRaiseHell]

He was pretty porky for a while but he lost weight
Kono was very present in Germany

Was actually think of him..

 

[Gyakuto148 157]

He was pretty porky for a while but he lost weight

That’s pre-Mounjaro Ohtsuka III! His Karate looks better than his father’s.

Kono was very present in Germany

He was excellent!

 

[Same Trick93 44]

I have to say, I’m not a fan of Hironori Ohtsuka II’s interpretation of Wado Ryu. He’s has very little in the way of ‘kime’ in his techniques and so it looks too soft and imprecise. It was his installation as head of Wado Ryu that began the fragmentation of Wado Ryu worldwide since Suzuki Tatsuo 8th Dan Hanshi, with his exceptional technical ability, fighting ability and knowledge, was seen as the natural successor to the founder. But Japan is a nepotistic culture so in goes Ohtsuka II as the head of Wado Ryu. Also, I’m sure he’s had his teeth done, Hollywood style, and they’re too big and white; they’re weird!

There are also a couple of vid with T.Zuzuki on the Chinese tubes, I just watched his performance of Empi(Wanshu) kata., and … it s stiff and forced, and he does a kind of jerky move with his head as if to put more power into the techniques which it of course doesn’t do…Didn’t like it

 

[BorntoRaiseHell]

There are also a couple of vid with T.Zuzuki on the Chinese tubes, I just watched his performance of Empi(Wanshu) kata., and … it s stiff and forced, and he does a kind of jerky move with his head as if to put more power into the techniques which it of course doesn’t do…Didn’t like it

How long did you personally train in wado ryu?

 

[gspell68]

I have to say, I’m not a fan of Hironori Ohtsuka II’s interpretation of Wado Ryu. He’s has very little in the way of ‘kime’ in his techniques and so it looks too soft and imprecise. It was his installation as head of Wado Ryu that began the fragmentation of Wado Ryu worldwide since Suzuki Tatsuo 8th Dan Hanshi, with his exceptional technical ability, fighting ability and knowledge, was seen as the natural successor to the founder. But Japan is a nepotistic culture so in goes Ohtsuka II as the head of Wado Ryu. Also, I’m sure he’s had his teeth done, Hollywood style, and they’re too big and white; they’re weird!

Haha!
Found some kata videos of Ohtsuka II.
Once you see the head bob thingee, you can’t unsee it.
He also overextends some punches by like four inches and then pulls them back.
I don’t think it’s an intentional kata move.
And he’s not smooth; he looks like a 10 year old who forgot the moves and is keying off of others.

 

[Gyakuto148 157]

There are also a couple of vid with T.Zuzuki on the Chinese tubes, I just watched his performance of Empi(Wanshu) kata., and … it s stiff and forced, and he does a kind of jerky move with his head as if to put more power into the techniques which it of course doesn’t do…Didn’t like it

Yes, his peer and rival, Shotokan’s Enoeda sensei 8th Dan used to do the same, like nodding pigeons! Enoeda was particularly noddy when kicking! Reminds me of champion marathon runner, Paula Radcliffe!

The other thing they both did was flare their elbows out from their sides when punching to create a whipping motion which is contrary to all teaching. I didn’t like that either although I did once see a Karate Nerd video where he suggested that movement was a simultaneous punch and block as used in Okinawa (The birth place of Koroddy).

The best puncher/kicker I ever saw was Sugasawa Fumio. He was incredible when I last saw him and only a 4th Dan too!

 

[Gyakuto148 157]

This is a good direct comparison…

Susuki Sensei was a brilliant fighter though!

 

[isshinryuronin37 37]

Through his teaching position and understanding of Japanese martial arts, Gigō became the technical creator of modern Shōtōkan karate. In 1946 the book Karate Do Nyumon by Gigō and Gichin Funakoshi was released. Gigo had written the technical part, whereas his father Gichin wrote the preamble and historical parts.[4]

While the ancient arts of To-de and shuri-te emphasized the use and development of the upper body, open hand attacks, short distances, joint locks, basic grappling, pressure point striking and use of the front kick and variations of it, Gigō developed long distance striking techniques using the low stances found in old style kendo and Iaido kata. Gigō also developed higher kicks including mawashi geri (round kick), yoko geri kekomi (thrusting side kick), yoko geri keage (side snap kick), fumikiri (cutting side kick directed to soft targets), ura mawashi geri (quarter rotation front-round kick—though some credit Kase-sensei with the creation of this technique) and ushiro geri kekomi (thrusting back kick). Yoshitaka was especially known for his deep stances and kicking techniques, and he introduced fudo dachi (rooted stance/immovable stance), yoko geri (side kick), and mae geri (front kick) forms to the Shōtōkan style.[8] All these techniques became part of the already large arsenal brought from the ancient Okinawan styles. Another big changement of Gigō was the introduction of the Kiba Dachi instead of Shiko Dachi and implementing the Kokutsu Dachi (which he took from japanese classical fencing or "kenjutsu") instead of Neko Ashi Dachi stance in Shōtōkan Kata.

Gigō's kicking techniques were performed with a much higher knee-lift than in previous styles, and the use of the hips was emphasized. Other technical developments included the turning of the torso to a half-facing position (hanmi) when blocking, and thrusting the rear leg and hips when performing the techniques. These adaptations allowed the delivery of a penetrating attack with the whole body through correct body alignment. Gigō also promoted free sparring.[9]

Gigō's kumite (fighting) style was to strike hard and fast, using low stances and long attacks, chained techniques and foot sweeps (taken from old style Kendō and Judō). Integration of these changes into the Shotokan style immediately separated Shotokan from Okinawan karate. Gigō also emphasized the use of oi tsuki (lunge punch) and gyaku tsuki (reverse lunge punch). The training sessions in his dōjō were exhausting, and during these, Gigō expected his students to give twice as much energy as they would put into a real confrontation. He expected this over-training would prepare them for an actual combat situation, should it arise.

This sounds like a reprint of another article, some of which I have read elsewhere. Is this a bot, or just plagiarism?

 

[windwalker099148 178]

He talks about the "prerequisite of practice is with weapons, not your bare fist"...

paraphrased:

"the problem is when you use it, you can't fight that way.
The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

 

[isshinryuronin37 37]

The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

I thought about this in terms of my Okinawan style and have to mostly agree with this: Positioning, movement and
balance. Certainly, legs play some role in power generation - difficult to punch hard if you're floating above the ground - one needs a solid base to work off of most of the time.

Leg power is emphasized more in some CMA, Shotokan and TKD type MA via deep stances. When working from a more upright stance there is less leg action, less of the leg>hip>arm chain that can deliver a very strong punch. Instead, while this chain still exists in an abbreviated form, I see the power being generated by the body more as one piece at the same time - rather than a buildup ending in a crescendo, it's more of a spontaneous "pop!"

While methods of MA power generation in the various systems share many similarities (the laws of physics apply to us all) there are subtle differences that allow each style to be effective in its own way.

 

[Kung Fu Wang148 178]

the leg>hip>arm chain that can deliver a very strong punch.

From

- leg -> hip is an upward motion.
- hip -> arm is a forward motion.

Is there another way of doing this? I don't think so. Can you apply this power generation method in all MA systems? I believe you can.

If you train for "health", you don't need to learn power generation. If you can knock your opponent down with your punch, your power generation is good no matter which style your power generation may come from.

I have seen people who brings:

- Baji Fajin into praying mantis system.
- While crane Fajin into Yang Taiji system.

Both look very good to me.

 

[gspell68]

I thought about this in terms of my Okinawan style and have to mostly agree with this: Positioning, movement and
balance. Certainly, legs play some role in power generation - difficult to punch hard if you're floating above the ground - one needs a solid base to work off of most of the time.

Leg power is emphasized more in some CMA, Shotokan and TKD type MA via deep stances. When working from a more upright stance there is less leg action, less of the leg>hip>arm chain that can deliver a very strong punch. Instead, while this chain still exists in an abbreviated form, I see the power being generated by the body more as one piece at the same time - rather than a buildup ending in a crescendo, it's more of a spontaneous "pop!"

While methods of MA power generation in the various systems share many similarities (the laws of physics apply to us all) there are subtle differences that allow each style to be effective in its own way.

If there is a style that uses leg power in punching, it’s Okinawan Seibukan.
But, even then, it could be argued that the leg just drives the hips into rotation.
I’ve never once used a square stance (shiko dachi) in Shotokan even though it does exist, but in Seibukan it essentially replaces the front stance which maybe gets used 10-20% of the time.

You’ll also notice that the punches are a little closer to Isshinryu.
Not quite a tate tsuki, but stopping short of a full fist rotation.
Punch a makiwara or a heavy bag while trying to do a typical Japanese punch and you’ll notice that you have to force the last quarter turn of the punch and then your wrist will fold under full power.
Hit a heavy bag deeply under full power with a rotating punch while trying to keep your wrist from folding and your fist will naturally end up exactly where a Seibukan punch would.

 

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

He talks about the "prerequisite of practice is with weapons, not your bare fist"...

paraphrased:

"the problem is when you use it, you can't fight that way.
The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

That’s a bunch of horse pucky, get it, horse?

 

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

He talks about the "prerequisite of practice is with weapons, not your bare fist"...

paraphrased:

"the problem is when you use it, you can't fight that way.
The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

Seriously though.

 

[Wing Woo Gar82 5]

He talks about the "prerequisite of practice is with weapons, not your bare fist"...

paraphrased:

"the problem is when you use it, you can't fight that way.
The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

He can’t fight that way because his legs are weak.

 

[Kung Fu Wang148 178]

The legs aren’t used to generate power — they’re mainly for positioning and movement."

Your leg can be used to counter your opponent's leg attack.