What should a black belt be?

[still learning]

Hello, This has been ask so many times and I think there is no right answer on this. Each one of us will have there own way of judgement on this thought?

Many times when someone finds out you train in the martial arts and realize you have a black belt. They think you are unbeatable.

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter?
Same condition and prowess? Isn't this what we saw in our teachers and instuctors? and lead to believe when we first started our training? (to be able to defend ourselves-as a black belt?)

For those who are black belts, do you feel like what it suppose to be?

Our first impressions are usually correct! .....What are your impressions of a black belt? As a black belt do you feel you meet those impressions?

For me the answer is closer to NO I do not meet those impressions when I first started.............Just my thoughts..........What are yours? ........Aloha

I use to use karate cologne....haven't try the black belt one?

 

[MJS]

Hello, This has been ask so many times and I think there is no right answer on this. Each one of us will have there own way of judgement on this thought?

Many times when someone finds out you train in the martial arts and realize you have a black belt. They think you are unbeatable.

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter?
Same condition and prowess? Isn't this what we saw in our teachers and instuctors? and lead to believe when we first started our training? (to be able to defend ourselves-as a black belt?)

For those who are black belts, do you feel like what it suppose to be?

Our first impressions are usually correct! .....What are your impressions of a black belt? As a black belt do you feel you meet those impressions?

For me the answer is closer to NO I do not meet those impressions when I first started.............Just my thoughts..........What are yours? ........Aloha

I use to use karate cologne....haven't try the black belt one?

Black Belt is supposed to signify reaching a certain level of expertise. Of course, this does not mean that the training has stopped, but instead, just begun, so to speak, as the journey to better ones self in the art should never end.

Of course we often see people get the impression that a BB means that they are unbeatable, as you said above. This is of course a myth IMO. Its the skill and knowledge that you have that is going to save you, not the color of the belt or the rank.

As for me...I never claim to be an expert at anything, as there is always someone out there better. Every time I go to class, I always walk away with learning something. This of course does not always have to be a technique or kata, but instead something as small as an improvement on a stance, a move done incorrectly in a tech or kata, etc.

Mike

 

[mantis]

a lot of people say a black belt is ur enterance to ur art..
i like to think that's true!

 

[TheBattousai]

From the perspective of a non-black belt, I can see that black belts are viewed that way (I thought that way too). When you get that first black belt, you have to realize that you are just getting started in your training(like what MJS said). The first black belt rank, or shodan (in jap.), translates beginer, regardless of a title (i.e. sensei or renshi) should be viewed that way. Just keep that in mind, and don't let the belts themselves be your goal or give you an ego, the important thing is that your training, that is truly the goal.

 

[MartialIntent]

From the perspective of a non-black belt, I can see that black belts are viewed that way (I thought that way too). When you get that first black belt, you have to realize that you are just getting started in your training(like what MJS said). The first black belt rank, or shodan (in jap.), translates beginer, regardless of a title (i.e. sensei or renshi) should be viewed that way. Just keep that in mind, and don't let the belts themselves be your goal or give you an ego, the important thing is that your training, that is truly the goal.

I agree. I think belt systems are an excellent tool for measuring technical proficiency and for standardising and bracketing techniques within each art into quantitative levels.

In grading for a belt however, we're seldom if ever tested for attitude. For me, it's always a pleasure meeting or speaking to other BBs who DO NOT regard themselves as the be all and end all of their art. It's nice to meet BBs who are still keen to learn, who are still humble and have a grasp of how to work their art in their lives and out in the wider world.

The fact that they are technically expert should be understood but for me, only when the attutude of the BB is commensurate with the belt can he truly claim to merit the rank of shodan [and beyond]...

 

[beauty_in_the_sai]

First off, getting a black belt doesn't suddenly make you an expert. I'm a black belt and certainly not an expert. Do I feel I had to earn it and deserve it? In all honesty, yes. I think being a black belt doesn't only mean you have to be good at your art, but you should have other qualities too. Like the willingness to teach others, the respect for upper ranks and lower ranks (our instrutor taught us to respect the upper ranks for what they have accomplished and the lower ranks for what they are trying to accomplish). You should also be honest, humble about your skills, and just an all around person. If I ever start my own school, anyone who is an arrogant jerk will never be promoted to black belt under me. When I was a white belt at age 13, I thought my instructor was unbeatable. LOL Course most of us do when we are white belts until we see our instructor spar at tournaments with other masters.

Becky

 

[arnisador]

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter?

More like a certified instructor, to my mind. (When exactly one becomes an instructor varies from org. to org., of course.) A black belt knows the basics and is ready to learn the details and teach the basics.

 

[Grenadier]

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter?
Same condition and prowess? Isn't this what we saw in our teachers and instuctors? and lead to believe when we first started our training? (to be able to defend ourselves-as a black belt?)

For those who are black belts, do you feel like what it suppose to be?

Depends from one style to the next, but in general, someone who has trained in a decent style of martial arts under a competent instructor that has received his black belt, can be assumed to have a good command of the fundamentals of the style. He would also meet a certain set of physical requirements and training time that was set by the rules of the style. Finally, he would have to show a good attitude when it comes to work ethics (good, consistent training, demeanor, etc). Thus, assuming that one meets the qualifications, all we can say is that he has quashed doubts as to whether he is proficient in the basics.

After becoming a yudansha, one is ready to begin learning the more advanced techniques of the style. Such techniques should only be taught to those who show a good command of the fundamentals, and it can be safe to assume that a dan rank can handle it. This isn't to say that a mudansha (kyu) rank can't handle it; it's just that we are talking about leaving no doubts.

Being a yudansha does not necessarily confer, or imply, that one is a better fighter, a better technician, etc. The martial arts is all about bettering one's self, not becoming better than the next guy. I know of many kyu ranks that could best some of the dan ranks of similar size and strength in a fight, whether it was tournament-style or no holds barred.

At the same time, though, I would much rather promote someone to the rank of shodan if he were able to show that he has good, clean techniques, knows his kata and waza (kihon waza, ippon waza, self defense, etc), as well as having dedication to the system and training. If he has all of the above, then usually he ends up doing decently when it comes to jyu kumite (free sparring). I would certainly promote the above individual long before I would promote someone who was decent in jyu kumite, but slacked off in class, showed a mediocre work ethic (only rising to the occasion when he had to), and didn't inspire others. Even though the second guy may very well defeat the first guy in a free-sparring match, the martial arts I wouldn't want him representing my dojo as a yudansha, since he would be a reflection on how we teach.

 

[Blindside]

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter? Same condition and prowess? Isn't this what we saw in our teachers and instuctors? and lead to believe when we first started our training? (to be able to defend ourselves-as a black belt?)

Some black belts are pro-fighters but like all things, most aren't. To me a black belt needs to be a decent fighter, they might not win, but whoever they were fighting will get out of it KNOWING (and hopefully looking like) they were in a heck of a fight.

In addition, they must be adequate teachers, with the knowledge and skills about the teaching methods used to pass on the knowledge that they have learned.

Lamont

 

[OnlyAnEgg]

In a sense, seeing a black belt, to me, is like looking at a senior when your a freshman in high school. They're where I want to be and I know that several years divide us.

From a training point of view, I understand that being a black belt does not make you the end-all be-all; it simply means you have learned how to learn.

 

[Grenadier]

This is going to be a bit long-winded, so grab some popcorn and Coca-cola, and relax.

An article from 24fightingchickens.com gave me the idea for comparison purposes.

Let's compare the aspiring martial artist who wants to eventually be a top-notch karate-ka, to someone who wants to become a professor.

Essentially, the black belt is like a college degree. If someone graduates from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, then you can assume that the graduate is reasonably proficient in the knowledge that was conferred upon him. In order to do that, he had to at least have fair work ethics (study, research), and had to meet certain standards in order to graduate.

The same, however, cannot be said about that very same person when he was a freshman in college. Why? Some freshman fail out, some leave on their own will because they don't like it, while others would rather be doing something else. The freshman is a relatively unknown quality at this point, and only through time and work, will his true abilities shine (or not).

As that college student progresses through the years, and manages to do well enough in his coursework (decent GPA, etc), he becomes more of a known quality, and eventually, one can get a pretty decent idea of how he will turn out.

Once he graduates, he is now ready to move on to more advanced studies, should he decide to do so. This way, if he did well enough, he'll get his chance at progressing through graduate school, and can move on to bigger and better things.

Once he gets his advanced degree (let's compare a master's degree to a 2nd dan, and a doctoral degree to a 3rd dan), he could very well be ready to take a professorship, but if he wants to do this at a more prestigious school, he will need further training as a postdoctoral fellow. Also, the person that he trains under is going to have a pretty big impact on how he is viewed by everyone else. It's no secret that working for certain big name professors will get you more publications in better journals, etc. While he's a postdoctoral fellow, he may actually get some teaching duties that a professor normally would.

If he does well as a postdoctoral fellow (let's compare him to a 4th dan), then he has a chance of finding the professorship that he wanted in the first place.

Now, let's say that he does become an assistant professor (lowest ranked tenure track professor, let's compare him to a 5th dan). From here on out, there's no more "testing" going on; rather, the school that took him in will be evaluating his overall achievements, over a period of time. Once they deem that he has brought enough to the table, he'll be given a chance to become an associate professor (6th dan), and further down the road, a full professor 7th dan and beyond). Such promotions can only be done through a committee of full professors who must generally agree that he is a candidate for such elevation.

Does this mean that someone has to go through all of that? Of course not. If one's aspirations aren't nearly that lofty, then he can certainly become a professor at a less prestigious place, even with a Master's degree, and if he's a good teacher, then he'll be producing potential graduates as well. Just because someone "only" has a M.S. doesn't mean that he'll be an inferior professor.


Now, let's compare this to someone who 'attends' a junk college. Let's use one of the highly unscrupulous 'online degree' programs that are nothing more than some guy (let's compare this to, say, our favorite neo-ninja named "Radford") in a warehouse that mails out fake transcripts. Someone who graduates from this 'college' is going to have a hard time getting into graduate school. No decent graduate school is going to want to accept him, knowing that he came from a garbage school, and may, in fact, be worried about his character!


Note: I am NOT inferring that a 2nd dan is the equivalent of a MS or a 3rd dan is the equivalent of a 3rd dan; I'm just using these as easy to understand reference points that may, or may not, have any validity. This is just something to give a comparison, nothing more.

 

[tshadowchaser]

To me it now means that somone has leaned the basics of his art and is about to start learning what to do with those basics and maybe someday will understand them

 

[DeLamar.J]

Hello, This has been ask so many times and I think there is no right answer on this. Each one of us will have there own way of judgement on this thought?

Many times when someone finds out you train in the martial arts and realize you have a black belt. They think you are unbeatable.

When you think about it....isn't a black belt like a professional fighter?
Same condition and prowess? Isn't this what we saw in our teachers and instuctors? and lead to believe when we first started our training? (to be able to defend ourselves-as a black belt?)

For those who are black belts, do you feel like what it suppose to be?

Our first impressions are usually correct! .....What are your impressions of a black belt? As a black belt do you feel you meet those impressions?

For me the answer is closer to NO I do not meet those impressions when I first started.............Just my thoughts..........What are yours? ........Aloha

I use to use karate cologne....haven't try the black belt one?

This reminds me of something that happend at work a while back. Some of the guys know about my rank because they are always talking about K-1, UFC and who has had training in martial arts. So, anyway, I'm walking in the rafters and almost fell, then they said, Jay, I thought you were a black belt with surpreme balance.
I found this funny. I said guys, I'm still a human being, I have just trained enough to know the basic principles in karate. Thats all a black belt means, it dont make you super human or anything.

 

[Laborn]

Ok heres what my instructer told me "The belts before your black belt, are just basic training. When you reach black belt is when you begin your real trainig" I find that to be true actually, before black belt we learn the basics of unarmed combat, now that im a BB I'm learning more in the way of damaging the opponent, insted of learning how to kick, im learning where to kick, so he'll go down. Which is the kind of stuff i love since i tournament fight lol.

 

[Gary Crawford]

advanced beginner

 

[Danny T]

No one is unbeatable. We all have our downfalls. As to what you expected what a black was/is I’m sorry you didn’t have the training you expected. When I started, my training wasn’t to be a BB but to continue with some kind of training. Therefore I had no expectations and from what I have read in the posts previous to this most feel being a BB is but a milestone to being an advanced beginner. For those of you training for “self-defense(whatever that means)”and all others who are BB’s be aware most all in the legal profession including the courts define BB as an ‘expert’ within whatever system you are a BB. If you use your martial skills and the court identifies you as BB you will be considered an Expert- one who has special skill or knowledge; being skillful as the result of practice.

Often individuals make assumptions based upon what the news media, entertainment media, and unformed friends give us. Before going to a college for a specific degree wouldn’t you find out just what is expected of you and for how long you have to attend in order to graduate with a degree? When stepping out into the work place don’t you want to know just what does the degree mean and allows for you? The same for any martial art. Also as most of us know BB in one system doesn’t mean the same in any other.

A BB in my school not only has to be able to perform the specific moves but must be able to perform the required moves with at least 3 different variations and applications against multiply opponents with multiply weapons as well as knowing and being able to perform at least 3 counters to each of the applications when performed on them. Now this doesn’t mean the person testing for BB is an expert on all levels of fighting utilizing all possibilities of applications with-in all ranges of fighting. However they are experts based upon the above definition and can physically use the movements, their body, and their minds to physically defend themselves against multiply opponents.

You stated, “For me the answer is closer to NO I do not meet those impressions when I first started...”

So, what were your impressions when you first started, and how far from those impressions do you feel you are? What are other’s impression of you and your skill? If you don’t feel you are a BB then did you accept the rank and belt and what more do you need to do to be a BB?

BB level is different in all schools and is based upon the criteria that school requires for BB. Once attaining the skills and abilities and can perform them if you are unfulfilled by your abilities or the schools requirements then speak with your instructor or the school’s director. Do they have higher level training or you may have to move on to another school which has a higher requirement of skill and ability.
Being a BB does not automatically make you an expert in all areas of the martial arts. If your training is in kata and breaking competition that doesn’t make you an expert in fighting. I and most all higher levels this includes BBs in my school are very good fighters. I would be willing to place them in most any fighting competitions and they would do well (that doesn’t mean they would all win it means they would do well). However, in tournament competition with forms, breaking, and one touch point competitions they would probably fare poorly or be disqualified. Why, because that is not where their expertise is.

If I go to college and receive a Doctorate in Medicine that doesn’t make me an expert in all areas of medicine does it? Yet I will still be considered an expert. If I wanted to be an expert in a particular field of medicine I would then have to take specific training in that field. Yet I would still be a Doctor of Medicine.

If you have completed the requirements of the school and performed the skills in the manner they required you to at the time of your BB test then you are a BB within that school. Even those students who graduate with a 2.0 average in a medical program and pass their certification boards by only the minimum number of questions are still medical doctors.

Danny

 

[Adept]

When I see people talking about black belts having mastered the basics, and that they are now able to move on to more advanced training, I feel a little non-plussed.

When I reached my black belt, I was ready for some new, super secret training. I had imagined that, beyond the basics I already knew, there would be a host of hidden secret techniques, taught only to black belts.

I was wrong.

What was different was the other people I was training with. Since we could all safely assume we had control of ourselves, when training as a group we could 'turn it up' a little. Apart from that, and a few patterns, there was little noticeable change in training. I wasn't being taught any new techniques that would have, by comparison, made my previously learned techniques 'basic'. In fact, it would appear that those basics are the whole of the art. Training after black belt isn't about learning new or better techniques, but making less mistakes in the ones you already know.

At least, thats been my experience.