generations of black belts.......

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artist89

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Black Belt, what comes to mind when you think of a black belt martial artist? Do you think of huge muscular person, or perhaps a medium size person with lighting reflexes, or both? I think of a person who has sharp clean techniques, their forms or poomse or katas in excelent shape. I also think of them as sound as of mind body and spirit. But what my question is how do you think black belts have came along since Martial Arts has came to the U.S.?

To me it seems like black belt is more of a status symbol more than anything. To me people just want it to say "I'm a black belt, fear me, respect me" and some just want it say they have it. But they thing is the payed tons of money and didn't put the practice in. It upsets me every time I go to a black belt testing or tournament and I see these black belts who cannot even do a front snap kick or a correct kick(or punch) at all. So my other question is why are black belts the wya the are today?

My dad, a 3rd degree black belt has been in it for 20+ years. When he was training for his black belt, he had a hard training master who was Korean. If their stances weren't correct he would knock them down with his "mental stick" ( a pieace of bamboo) and yell in their face.

Those black belts from that harsh and severe training are all extrememly good today and are still in it. Of course my dads master cannot teach like that today becuase people are money hungry babies who cannot take pain and will sue if they feel the need too(not everyone is like that of course)

I'm not saying we should do what my dads master did to todays students of martial arts. I'm just saying instructors,masters and even grand masters shouldn't just be giving black belts away like it's candy. To me todays black belts(not all of them, just most of them) are lazy, pathetic and not that good. It seems todays value of getting a black belt means almost nothing any more but a mere status seymbol. So what I want to say is to those(including me) who are testing for their black belt, make it your best. Show them that you aren't like the rest and that you want your black belt for real training. As they say the real training begins at the black belt level.

Thank You,
Dustin H,
Red Belt
 

Sam

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What comes to mind when you think of a black belt martial artist?
You mentioned size when you talked about your personal thoughts on what a black belt should be. In my (very limited, I admit) experience, I have found that there are many kinds of black belts. There are those that are very large, very strong, there are those that are small and faster than lightning, there are those who are really neither of the first two, but think so quickly they can take on either of them, and there are combonations of everything in between. To me, a black belt is someone who has dedicated a lot of time to the art and has clearly shown that they are dedicated and willing to give it their all. A black belt is someone who knows the basics inside and out, someone to look to in class when you don't understand. You said in your post that "I also think of them as sound as of mind body and spirit." I also would like to think that, but as someone bluntly pointed out on another thread I was recently reading, black belt only means that you have the physical capabilities and have the knowlegde of how to handle yourself in all situations. I'm blatently re-writing what they said here, I'd give them credit if I remembered who it was, but, "while the spiritual side of the arts are there, and many people get into that part of their art, having a black belt does not mean that the person is balanced or stable mentally." They could be a condescending jerk, but if they have the skills, I don't see how schools could hold them back if they worked hard and knew the material.


To me it seems like black belt is more of a status symbol more than anything. To me people just want it to say "I'm a black belt, fear me, respect me" and some just want it say they have it. But they thing is the payed tons of money and didn't put the practice in. It upsets me every time I go to a black belt testing or tournament and I see these black belts who cannot even do a front snap kick or a correct kick(or punch) at all. So my other question is why are black belts the way the are today?
it seems like you answered your own question to me. Why are black belts the way they are today? Because to some people, its a status symbol, they want to say fear me and respect me, they paid money and didnt put the time in. That would make for some pretty crappy black belts.

To me todays black belts(not all of them, just most of them) are lazy, pathetic and not that good.
I've met a few of the kind of black belts you are speaking about, and I understand your frusteration, but the problem is, I think, these kinds of black belts just really STAND out. I am not saying they are not there, but I don't think its anywhere near "most" black belts.
 

terryl965

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first off a B.B. means nothing to a real MA'er, his motive are way past a symbol. My father never ever told people he was a B.B. until they say what he did for a living, he instucted the military. Myself no one knows until they accidentally stumble into my school or a friend mention it to them, my B.B. is sacred to me and only me my training is for self worth not what other think about me. I train other that wish to learn the Art aspect of MA, not just the sport,mine is a journey through time and eventually I will be enlighted enough to understand what my father and other great Masters was trying to make me understand, I hope when I leave this great world I can instill these values into my family and students and I can be as humble as my father was.
 

lulflo

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Some have quite a bit to learn about their art at black belt and some have even more. I agree with the idea that the real learning begins at black belt. I would say that the time put in until that point is just so you can actually step on the mat with the masters and live to tell about it.

It seems to me (more and more) that humbleness is not something that is taught these days, but hey, what do I know, I still haven't reached black belt. Maybe in a couple more years, eh. I have trained for almost five years now and I am pretty close, but I don't assume that I am ready to uphold a title. I am in this for life and no matter what rank I am or what I achieve, I will abide by my own code of ethics and honor. I just dislike listening to those who boast openly and often about how awesome they are...If they are that good, I don't need to hear it from them, I'm sure someone else who has seen them will tell me.

Nice post Artist.

Farang - Larry
 

MichiganTKD

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Physically, a black belt has mastered the basics of his style and is ready for the more advanced stuff. Therefore, a black belt should be physically capable. Not a master, that is a different level, but physically capable. Some more some less.

Mentally, they should begin to embody the characteristics of an advanced student: good concentration. good spirit, good energy. Their actions begin to represent themselves as students of the martial arts.

My belief is that a true black belt shows it in his every action, not because he feels the need to tell people. It will show through. People may not know specifically that he is black belt, but they know he is different somehow.
 
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Martial_Maniac

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This is gonna sound weird, but just bare with me. It seems like black belts today are like small people. Small people arent very big (duh) so they tend to buy big or extravagent (sp?) things (ie. cars, clothes, homes, etc.) to make up for it. Sadly, most blackbelts these days have no REAL skill, so they go out, picking fights, trying to prove themselves, creating 'styles', and becoming 'teachers' to students who want true skill and are serious about their MA training, promoting them to black belt, based on some made up techniqes that couldnt do anything in a real fight. The student then goes off teaching others the 'art' and a whole generation of blackbelts has just gone to waste, and the future of MA goes down the drain.
 

searcher

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Martial_Maniac said:
This is gonna sound weird, but just bare with me. It seems like black belts today are like small people. Small people arent very big (duh) so they tend to buy big or extravagent (sp?) things (ie. cars, clothes, homes, etc.) to make up for it. Sadly, most blackbelts these days have no REAL skill, so they go out, picking fights, trying to prove themselves, creating 'styles', and becoming 'teachers' to students who want true skill and are serious about their MA training, promoting them to black belt, based on some made up techniqes that couldnt do anything in a real fight. The student then goes off teaching others the 'art' and a whole generation of blackbelts has just gone to waste, and the future of MA goes down the drain.
Compensation for their "shortcomings." Very nicely put. People do tend to try and compensate for an area they are lacking in by trying to buy themselves respect. Oooooh so sad. So very sad.
 

Mark L

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I understand what you are asking and why, but I think the question can only be answered within the context of the school or system that awards the rank. My rank is completely meaningless outside of the dojo where I train, however, my skill is not. The problem is that the skill level of black belts from various schools and systems is wildly inconsistent.

I live and practice in a relatively small town, two dojos, two markedly different styles. I'm clearly biased towards one, but hopefully my observations are fair ones. One school awards BB to the average adult student after around 3 years of study, and there are pre-teen BBs. That's OK with me, they are free do to as they wish. The other takes at least 6 years to BB, and only 17+ year olds are eligible. That's OK, too, as we're free to do as we wish. One has a curriculum focused on a traditional style, the other has a core curriculum focused on a more contemporary style (kempo) augmented with some newer materials not explicit to the base curriculum (ground work, pressure points, etc.). Those guys readily admit that there curriculum isn't as comprehensive, no knock on them, there style is what it is.

So the BB student at the first school (assuming consistent quality control) has a certain skill set and level of proficiency that warrants the rank, as does the other student from the other school. But the comparison of a shodan from one to a shodan from the other yields a widely disparate skill level, yet both are appropriately ranked. So the comparison fails.

I think the key notion is that, within a given dojo or organization, the skill level must be consistent. We had a BB test this past weekend where two students got shodan, and everyone that had gone before them (not just the owner) got a voice in their promotion, so we're consistent. Actually not, the new BBs seem to always get better than the prior classes.
 

OULobo

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You know I was just discussing this with a friend of mine. In one of the arts I study there is a clear separation of the different regimes of BBs that have come through. All the instructors have a unique flavor that seems to be stamped on them from when they first got their BB. They went from combative/military styled to Japanese style kata based to Thai kickboxing competition styled to Kung Fu forms styled to Aikido/yoga based. It is interesting to see them all interacting at the National events.

In response to "hard core" training methods. I have seen some of the older instructors that did train these ways and they are close to crippled now in their later years. The years of training made them harder and harder, but twisted thier bodies at the same time. There is a reason why Thai boxers start early and retire in their mid-twenties. Sometimes methods change because they find healthier and smarter ways to train, not just because of lawsuit threats and general loss of courage and pain tolerance.
 
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artist89

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Well hopefully black belts in MA will continue to be the greatest they can be. What upsets me is a black belt that doesn't want to try. But thanks for all of your replies.
 

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