Belt Rank Progress

[drop bear]

Yes, if the only reason for the training is for a check box for a belt color then yes.
Now, if that is to get a belt color to spar or to compete or ... Then that is different.
If one wants the Black belt as the physical requirements in that system is the goal then their real desire are those requirements not the belt itself.
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There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve by doing the work.
There is a problem with A private who refuses to take the classes / training and then tests to start to process and just thinks they deserve it because they showed up every day.



Yes, if only the goal of RANK / Belt level. It is considered Superficial and shallow.



When this discuss was talking about the hypothetical student within our hypothetical school as the topic, this is fine; now in my opinion you are trying to make it about Us vs Them and making it personal.
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Yes the individual motives matter as I have stated above.
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If the individual's journey is just for the prestige and glory of the rank to strut around and lord it over others, then yes it is shallow.
If it is to get a goal for physical fitness, self defense or something else, then it is not.





Yes, It is crazy.
Yet, we all know the guy who shows up every class and they have done their homework while not in class and one can see the progress.
As well as the student who just shows and tries in class and wonders why they are passed by and complain they do not have the rank others have because they want that rank as well.
Finally, the student who shows up and barely tries or doesn't try, yet wants their reward for being "present" and also has they glow in the eyes when they think they will get their rank / belt and then they will be in charge.
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It is crazy on the macro level .
Once one looks at the individual and looks at the work then one can see it is not so crazy.
If the great / good / average student doing their homework and showing up and participating and making progress ask about their next rank those who also ask and have not done their homework is where the issue arises.
It is easier to just not talk about the testing or promotions.
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Side Note: Professional schools sometimes have scheduled tests, and they also run through all the requirements prior and do a test assessment for the students and while it might be assumed that they will test, the students soon realize that they are not ready. And then do not sign up officially to test. And if they do sign up the instructor has to work with them to explain why they are most likely going to fail. This is a different topic all together.





Yes, their primary goal can be "X" rank to do "Y".
And then they do the work to get to the steps along the way to their goal.
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Yet, when the slacking student or the absent student shows up and wants to test.
When the Black belt that took a year off (Or more) and shows up a year later and wants to test within a month or so for their next rank (level 2). Their justification, was that they thought about their training once every few months.
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Yes there are exceptions to all examples.
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It can ultimately be a humble brag

So not only do they strut around with their belt. But they are such a martial artist that they didn't even want it.

Basically doing the school a favour by accepting it.

Which is that very martial arts condesending spirituality that happens.

Personally I find that kind of thing funny.

 

[drop bear]

Being a self proclaimed black belt is not the same thing as earning it at a dojo.

No. I think he is saying it is the same.

That is the point.

Because belts don't really matter. It is the art that is important.

 

[PhotonGuy]

No. I think he is saying it is the same.

That is the point.

Earning a black belt at a dojo means you've met your instructors standards for the belt.

Being a self proclaimed black belt means you've only met your own standards for the belt, whatever they might be. So it's different.

Because belts don't really matter. It is the art that is important.

If belts of rank didn't matter whatsoever at all then no dojos would have them. There are some dojos or martial arts schools that don't have belts of rank or any rank for that matter (other than that of student/instructor) so at such places obviously belts wouldn't matter but if a dojo does have belts of rank that means it does matter, at least to some extent.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Yes, if the only reason for the training is for a check box for a belt color then yes.
Now, if that is to get a belt color to spar or to compete or ... Then that is different.
If one wants the Black belt as the physical requirements in that system is the goal then their real desire are those requirements not the belt itself.
.
There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve by doing the work.

You make moral judgements on a murderer, a purse snatcher, a scammer, or a drug dealer, things like that. If you're making a moral judgement on some wanting something that you feel isn't important, then that says more about you than the person you're judging.

There is a problem with A private who refuses to take the classes / training and then tests to start to process and just thinks they deserve it because they showed up every day.

Trust and believe that if you're an NCO and you have a Private under you that's perfectly content with staying a Private, he's a gonna problem that you don't want to deal with.

When this discuss was talking about the hypothetical student within our hypothetical school as the topic, this is fine; now in my opinion you are trying to make it about Us vs Them and making it personal.

???

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Yes the individual motives matter as I have stated above.
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If the individual's journey is just for the prestige and glory of the rank to strut around and lord it over others, then yes it is shallow.
If it is to get a goal for physical fitness, self defense or something else, then it is not.

Who said anything about "lording it over others?"

If someone is using their rank in martial arts to establish themselves the arbiter of character judgement, then they're actually guilty of this themselves .

Yes, their primary goal can be "X" rank to do "Y".
And then they do the work to get to the steps along the way to their goal.
.
Yet, when the slacking student or the absent student shows up and wants to test.
When the Black belt that took a year off (Or more) and shows up a year later and wants to test within a month or so for their next rank (level 2). Their justification, was that they thought about their training once every few months.
.
Yes there are exceptions to all examples.
.

I'm not talking about work ethic. That's a totally separate issue from motive. A motive that you consider petty can establish a far better work ethic for that person than a motive that you consider noble does for someone else.

 

[Hot Lunch]

It can ultimately be a humble brag

So not only do they strut around with their belt. But they are such a martial artist that they didn't even want it.

Basically doing the school a favour by accepting it.

Which is that very martial arts condesending spirituality that happens.

Personally I find that kind of thing funny.

So the people who say "belts don't matter" don't really believe it themselves.

“Belts Don’t Matter” is Jiu-Jitsu’s Biggest Hypocrisy

"Belts Don't Matter" is Jiu-Jitsu’s Biggest Hypocrisy

Guest post by Bill Jones, the head instructor and president of Top Level Martial Arts in Cuyahoga Falls, OH. He has been training martial arts since 1985 and holds several black belt ranks, including a Black Belt under Master Pedro Sauer. If you would like to learn more, contact bill at...

www.bjjee.com

 

[KenpoMaster805]

We never skipped ranked in my karate system it goes white yellow orange purple blue green then 3rd brown 2nd brown then 1st brown then black belt i don't know on other system. like in shotokan system they dont have blue belt they have white yellow orange then green then purple then brown then black

 

[Hot Lunch]

We never skipped ranked in my karate system it goes white yellow orange purple blue green then 3rd brown 2nd brown then 1st brown then black belt i don't know on other system. like in shotokan system they dont have blue belt they have white yellow orange then green then purple then brown then black

Yeah, because the less belt colors there are in the mudansha ranks, the less there's being taught 🙄

 

[Hot Lunch]

It's okay. I know.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I am sure you expect the Crossed arm reproach
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Yet, the chilling with the glasses and going about my day is where it is at.


I do appreciate you putting a smiley face on your self portrait though

 

[Hot Lunch]

I am sure you expect the Crossed arm reproach
.
Yet, the chilling with the glasses and going about my day is where it is at.


I do appreciate you putting a smiley face on your self portrait though

No, what I expected, I got. You coping with your inability to counter by clicking on the laugh react 😉

 

[Rich Parsons]

No, what I expected, I got. You coping with your inability to counter by clicking on the laugh react 😉

Dude, I had work.
You want me to go through and explain the parts of your passive aggressiveness and your trollish behaviors, it can be done.
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It started out as a discussion. Abstract.
You made it personal and about you and how people were attacking you and making moral decisions about you and your students versus the abstract discussion.
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Based upon your interactions here, you would not test in my school until I get a better understanding of your ego, to avoid you being a person strutting around telling people you are X rank and how hard it was in the old days and ..., .
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Yet, you want to engage.
Cool.
I laughed because you don't see it and never will.
It is ok.
Some people don't get it.
Yes I am making a statement that you might consider judgement, yet, your judgement of me and others on this thread is baiting and trollish. So if someone replies in kind, or calls you out you get from them attacking you, to attacking others.
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Peace bro. Chum. Pal. Friend.
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You are a wall of opinions and ignorance and not here for a discussion, just to cause an issue.
So if you wish to continue please do.
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Yours and my posts will be reported.
The staff will review.
They may decide on a message or points or other actions.
.
You know following a process.
Kind of like checking out students.
Kind of being worried about those who say they are the most ready, without showing they are the most ready.
Kind of like posters that tell people they cannot make a judgement because they have no affect in their school versus being open for the discussion and then turn around judge others.
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Mirror tactics is a standard security and bouncing methodology.
If they call you a name , repeat it back. Why? Because they have reached into their back pocket and pulled out and thrown down their worse insult they can think of.
So Mirror it back .
If they laugh. Cool.
If they get upset, they can't come in. (* Speaking of the bouncing / security position not this forum specifically *)
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So yes, I am smiling and laughing because You responded to me.
Your trollish baiting attacking post was responded too , and you replied and I laughed at it and then you a made personal attack on me.
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LOL Dude this is the internet. I was around when it was just DARPA and some colleges.
Your opinion of me here means nothing.
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Your attitude that could affect this site and other posters does affect me. As you might scare or intimidate someone cool away or someone new.
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Just remember your post with the trollish face was your post towards me. Specifically. Because of a laughing emoji on a post.
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WOW !!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah, because the less belt colors there are in the mudansha ranks, the less there's being taught 🙄

Did you take something in the post you quoted as saying that?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

By people whose opinions don't matter.

The tone of your posts suggests you care rather a lot about other’s’ opinions of you.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Dude, I had work.
You want me to go through and explain the parts of your passive aggressiveness and your trollish behaviors, it can be done.
.
It started out as a discussion. Abstract.
You made it personal and about you and how people were attacking you and making moral decisions about you and your students versus the abstract discussion.

Nope. Never did I once state my own personal motives. I'm simply talking about judging others for theirs.

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Based upon your interactions here, you would not test in my school until I get a better understanding of your ego, to avoid you being a person strutting around telling people you are X rank and how hard it was in the old days and ..., .

In other words, you yourself would be lording your rank over others.

.
Yet, you want to engage.
Cool.
I laughed because you don't see it and never will.
It is ok.
Some people don't get it.
Yes I am making a statement that you might consider judgement, yet, your judgement of me and others on this thread is baiting and trollish. So if someone replies in kind, or calls you out you get from them attacking you, to attacking others.
.
Peace bro. Chum. Pal. Friend.
.
You are a wall of opinions and ignorance and not here for a discussion, just to cause an issue.
So if you wish to continue please do.
.
Yours and my posts will be reported.
The staff will review.
They may decide on a message or points or other actions.
.
You know following a process.
Kind of like checking out students.
Kind of being worried about those who say they are the most ready, without showing they are the most ready.
Kind of like posters that tell people they cannot make a judgement because they have no affect in their school versus being open for the discussion and then turn around judge others.
.
Mirror tactics is a standard security and bouncing methodology.
If they call you a name , repeat it back. Why? Because they have reached into their back pocket and pulled out and thrown down their worse insult they can think of.
So Mirror it back .
If they laugh. Cool.
If they get upset, they can't come in. (* Speaking of the bouncing / security position not this forum specifically *)
.
So yes, I am smiling and laughing because You responded to me.
Your trollish baiting attacking post was responded too , and you replied and I laughed at it and then you a made personal attack on me.
.
LOL Dude this is the internet. I was around when it was just DARPA and some colleges.
Your opinion of me here means nothing.
.
Your attitude that could affect this site and other posters does affect me. As you might scare or intimidate someone cool away or someone new.
.
Just remember your post with the trollish face was your post towards me. Specifically. Because of a laughing emoji on a post.
.
WOW !!

...and you're saying I'M the one who thinks this is too deep? Yeah, no.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Did you take something in the post you quoted as saying that?

"Skipping belts?"

 

[Hot Lunch]

The tone of your posts suggests you care rather a lot about other’s’ opinions of you.

Let's put this into context. Dirty Dog is calling people motivated by belt rank as "shallow." Rich Parsons is talking about evaluating people's egos and all that before allowing students to test.

So it goes like this. A student is motivated by belt rank. The whole "belts don't matter" thing is actually part of mainstream culture now, probably due scenes in Karate Kid where Mr Miyagi expresses nihilistic views towards belt rank. So the student knows going in not to ask questions about how promotions work, how long it takes to make black belt, etc. But that doesn't mean they're not reviewing the curriculum requirements and figuring it out on their own.

You can tell a student that they're flawed if they're chasing a belt rank, but to that there's two responses. The first is that they exercise their options in the free market economy and go where they're not shamed for wanting whatever they want. The second is that they stay in your dojo and fake it until they mate it.

In any case that student is going to get what they want. Maybe from your dojo, maybe from another - but either way, they win.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Let's put this into context. Dirty Dog is calling people motivated by belt rank as "shallow." Rich Parsons is talking about evaluating people's egos and all that before allowing students to test.

So it goes like this. A student is motivated by belt rank. The whole "belts don't matter" thing is actually part of mainstream culture now, probably due scenes in Karate Kid where Mr Miyagi expresses nihilistic views towards belt rank. So the student knows going in not to ask questions about how promotions work, how long it takes to make black belt, etc. But that doesn't mean they're not reviewing the curriculum requirements and figuring it out on their own.

You can tell a student that they're flawed if they're chasing a belt rank, but to that there's two responses. The first is that they exercise their options in the free market economy and go where they're not shamed for wanting whatever they want. The second is that they stay in your dojo and fake it until they mate it.

In any case that student is going to get what they want. Maybe from your dojo, maybe from another - but either way, they win.

That was an odd amount of text to not really address the post you quoted.

 

[Hot Lunch]

That was an odd amount of text to not really address the post you quoted.

Then let's shorten it. You think someone is shallow because they want a belt? Doesn't matter. If they're determined to get, they're going to. And they're not going to feel bad about it.

Got it? Good.

 

[jks9199]

Thread locked pending a Staff review.

jks9199
MT Admin