miguksaram
Master of Arts
Maybe your TKD was, but mine and others that I know, are doing just fine holding our own.
Another ATA 5 year old black belt
- Thread starter RonMarlow
- Start date
Cyriacus
Senior Master
The issue is that bad Dojos/Dojangs/Gyms/Any-MA get bad Reputations. Good Dojos etc dont, because they dont seek publicity as much. As such, bad TKD is more commonly known than Good TKD, because its whats on display.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
you might think you are, but you are not. Let me tell you a little story. in 2009, i went to a seminar/gathering for Kajukembo and kenpo stylists. We worked out all day on different combinations, techniques, ideas, etc. typical seminar stuff really. No less than 4 different times, people who had worked out with me, treated me like an equal, totally changed thier attitude when they found out i was a TKD dan. Two actually LAUGHED, one said he felt sorry for me, and one actually turned around and walked away.
Were they jerks? maybe
did it convince me that the reputation of TKD is in the toilet?
absolutely.
too many pre-teen blackbelts
too many mcdojo's
the entire joke that is olympic flippy kicky kickboxing
TKD is considered the retarded stepbrother of the martial arts by many other martial artists
I dont like it either, but i will not bury my head in the sand and pretend it isnt true.
I am sure YOU think it is all peaches and creme, and it could be said that as long as a person is happy, who cares what others think
it could also be said that we lie to ourselves, but others may tell us the truth if we are willing to listen
Were they jerks? maybe
did it convince me that the reputation of TKD is in the toilet?
absolutely.
too many pre-teen blackbelts
too many mcdojo's
the entire joke that is olympic flippy kicky kickboxing
TKD is considered the retarded stepbrother of the martial arts by many other martial artists
I dont like it either, but i will not bury my head in the sand and pretend it isnt true.
I am sure YOU think it is all peaches and creme, and it could be said that as long as a person is happy, who cares what others think
it could also be said that we lie to ourselves, but others may tell us the truth if we are willing to listen
miguksaram
Master of Arts
The must have really hurt your feelings when they told you that your TKD was a joke, to make you so bitter.
I have been to gatherings with Kempo and Kajukembo as well. I went there in my dobok as a TKD practitioner. I got on the mat and mixed it up with them. The result, we had a great time and no one felt sorry for me because of my TKD background. In fact they wanted to learn some more footwork drills from me in exchange for some hand drills from them. So I guess the guys you hung were just closed minded jerks.
Curious...have you ever gotten in the ring with one of the "flippy kicky" Olympic fighters? I see a lot of people put it down, yet see very little step up and attempt to do it. Hell, can you even last a in a typical Olympic "flippy kicky" workout?
So then you admit that you learned retarded martial arts. I'm sure your TKD instructor would be pleased with your feelings towards what she taught you.
No I do not think it is all peaches and cream. There are schools that are out there that make all martial arts look bad...TKD, Kempo, Karate, etc. Trouble is that what I learned did not come from those schools. The TKD that I learned and practice had nothing to do with them so why should I stress when some lug nut makes a comment about how he feels sorry for me because I learned TKD. I actually feel bad for that lug nut because he never had a chance to see what good TKD is.
You are correct. I see that all the time on this board.
Sad....just sad. I believe that in some cases you are correct. The lack of standards in many tkd schools, both kkw and the others, has led to many bad poom/dan belts (yourself included tf). Like anything else you can not judge every school by what you see at the bad ones.
I had some kajukenbo students at a seminar I held last year. We worked on power kicking and trapfighting drills followed by olympic style sparring. They loved the freedom to hit as hard as they could. They could not kick very well but learned how to better judge distance at long range. Maybe the kjkb students you met have only been exposed to weak, pathetic tkd. You were an example of either good or bad tkd. I'm guessing that, from their laughter, it was not the good.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
dude, seriously, stop making things personal. Nothing i wrote was directed at you but you take EVERYTHING personal and then you GET personal and YOU cause the mods to get involved. Your entire post is one long personal attack. And it has been reported as it violates the TOS of this board.
untill you can have a conversation and not act all butthurt, i may have to put you on the iggy list. I wont get myself in trouble over your inability to seperate your "art" from your own sense of self worth.
untill you can have a mature, rational discussion of martial arts, i bid you good day.
untill you can have a conversation and not act all butthurt, i may have to put you on the iggy list. I wont get myself in trouble over your inability to seperate your "art" from your own sense of self worth.
untill you can have a mature, rational discussion of martial arts, i bid you good day.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
and AGAIN with the personal attacks. You guys take everything so personal. I havent insulted YOU, but you feel free to insult ME personally. Thats petty.
you say I am a bad bb. Based on what?
And i guessed you missed what i actually wrote, those guys were fine with ME and my bag of tricks, they laughed at TKD, not me. And based on what I see here, I dont blame them
you say I am a bad bb. Based on what?
And i guessed you missed what i actually wrote, those guys were fine with ME and my bag of tricks, they laughed at TKD, not me. And based on what I see here, I dont blame them
As several people have pointed out, there are good and bad TKD schools. I don't hold the ATA in high regard due to personal experience. First, I've fought ATA TKD black belts and found their training to be...less than lacking (to give you an idea of my martial arts training: my brother and I would buy whatever we could find in used bookstores, combine it with what we say on late night movies, and wrasslin'). Could they kick? Yes? Could they fight? No. Second, I've found that the schools are more concerned with profit over quality. I used to point, laugh, and call anyone who practiced TKD a wannabe martial artist. Now with that said, when I was in the navy I worked with a guy who was into martial arts and after working out with him a couple times found out he had a black belt in TKD. Which really surprised me. He actually knew how to fight. The few times we sparred he showed that he had a good ground game and that he could do more than just throw a kick. After my last deployment, I had a new respect for TKD. As he explained to me, his school used equivallency belts for their childrens program. A child's BB was equal to a green belt.
I agree with several others, at least the kid isn't sitting at home in front of the tv playing video games. The child is learning something useful and the parents are involved. Which is a lot more than I can say about most parents.
I agree with several others, at least the kid isn't sitting at home in front of the tv playing video games. The child is learning something useful and the parents are involved. Which is a lot more than I can say about most parents.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
You insult an art by calling it retarded. You insult an ethnic group by calling the thieves and liars and now you feel you have been violated because I make an observation based on your behavior and go whining to the mods and I'm the one who is buttsore? BTW...the only time I have bitched about you was when you made the racist remark (yes, I still think it was racist) about Koreans being thieves and liars.
You don't like Taekwondo..we get it. You don't like Korean martial artists...check. So why even post on this particular board when you have nothing but discontent about an art you studied? I do separate myself from my art because I don't get upset about things that happen in the past or in another school. It seems you have this problem as you are up in arms about a retarded art made by thieves and liars that you had no problem studying and accepting a black belt in. You want to ignore me that is fine...You will have to excuse me if I'm still able to sit just fine because my butt is not sore from your rejection...BTW...funny how it was me that was defending you before against another TKD person who was insulting your school and kids in the past...but yeah...I'm the buttsore guy.
You mean until I come around to thinking just like you, you will bid me good day....well hasta pasta, don't let the door hit you on the *** on the way out.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
personal: you attacking ME
not personal: me giving an opinion of SOME parts of an art
learn the difference.
And you have no idea what you are talking about. I LOVE TKD, the old fashioned blood and guts TKD that came to the US in the 50's and 60's taught by TOUGH men and women before they made a sport out of it.
The TKD i learned, with no giant maxi pads strapped to your chest, with PUNCHES to the FACE as well as kicks
my TKD line produced troy dorsey, ray mccallum, and demetrius havanas (you prob dont know those names, none of them wore chest protectors....)
what i dont like is the joke TKD is being made into by the 5 yr old BB's, the mcdojo's, the hands down no self defense schools, the instructors that ALLOW "i only got my bb so i could compete"
i LOVE tkd, i hate what some people are doing to it. you OUGHT to be able to tell the difference
BTW- i have never said i dont like korean martial artists. I said i dont like liars and thieves. And the modern history of korean martial arts is LOADED with lies and theft.
if that offends you, sorry, but it also happens to be true.
not personal: me giving an opinion of SOME parts of an art
learn the difference.
And you have no idea what you are talking about. I LOVE TKD, the old fashioned blood and guts TKD that came to the US in the 50's and 60's taught by TOUGH men and women before they made a sport out of it.
The TKD i learned, with no giant maxi pads strapped to your chest, with PUNCHES to the FACE as well as kicks
my TKD line produced troy dorsey, ray mccallum, and demetrius havanas (you prob dont know those names, none of them wore chest protectors....)
what i dont like is the joke TKD is being made into by the 5 yr old BB's, the mcdojo's, the hands down no self defense schools, the instructors that ALLOW "i only got my bb so i could compete"
i LOVE tkd, i hate what some people are doing to it. you OUGHT to be able to tell the difference
BTW- i have never said i dont like korean martial artists. I said i dont like liars and thieves. And the modern history of korean martial arts is LOADED with lies and theft.
if that offends you, sorry, but it also happens to be true.
Dude, you really need to get over it. ALL matial arts are loaded with lies and theft. It's the nature of the beast. Deal with it.
Given the Korean martial culture and documented history was wiped out during the Japanese occupation, what options were available to revive their culture?
Then man up and defend your art instead of tearing it down! We all know that there are bad schools but when you slam real tkd I take it personal. Either stop knocking it or go talk smack somewhere else. They like smak talking on bullshido...
And btw, people lie about all sorts of things. It is not unique to tkd. Some tell the truth, I ignore and feel pity for the others.
Given that the martial arts had not been a huge part of Korean culture for probably a couple of centuries, probably more, prior to the occupation, I think that you're asking the wrong question.
I think that the question is this: The Japanese made judo and kendo a part of Korean culture during the occupation, and Koreans living in Japan and returning to Korea with the things that they had learned in Japan was also a part of Korean culture. Why should they not incorporate those things into post-occupation Korean culture?
From what I've read, when Korea had it's "revolt" in 1919, Japan forcefully banned all things Korean and made all things Japanese mandatory. I had to write a paper on Hap Ki Do so seeing it in a historical light made me a bit more appreciative of what the Korean government did after WWII.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
You calling an ethnic group thieves and liars...personal.
Seems like this is more of a all or nothing statement than parts of it.TF said:
Before you point your finger at me...be sure your hand is clean.
There was a sport well before it came to the U.S. And those people who brought it here are the ones you are calling thieves and liars today.
Actually I do know of Mst. Dorsey and Mst. McCallum. I grew up watching those guys fight on the open circuit when I would go compete back in the '80's. Being from Chicago, all the great fighters came in and out especially at the AKA Grands. Also got to see them in the Pro-am as well.
I am not fond of them either. So what I do is not patronize them, and if asked my opinion, I tell people not to go to those schools. What I don't do is jump up and down and rant on how retarded TKD is because of handful of schools. Just like I don't yell how retarded Kempo is because of certain Kenpo schools practice the same watered down, belt milling practice.
Not when you call it retarded and the pioneers thieves and liars...it is hard to see the love.
That doesn't quite ring of you just not liking thieves and liars. I don't like thieves and liars either, yet I don't specific ethnic group thieves and liars, just because a couple of them may have not owned up to the truth.TF said:
The only part that ever really offended me was your ethnic remark towards my friends, colleagues, seniors, and mentors. The rest I can care less about because it is basically the same diatribe that I have heard a thousand times before from you and other people of same mind set.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Actually not entirely true. Given that they have found books such as the Mooyedobotongji shows that martial culture was not wiped out. Little by little they are finding other historical documents all over the world that pre-dates Japanese occupation. The problem is that when most of us think of martial arts we tend to think stylistic systems. Korea did have a martial art culture which was military based. They had very little H2H and more weapon work.
Twin Fist
Grandmaster
let me guess, the only thing you consider "real" is KKW certified WTF style ......... /eyeroll
if you take it personal, thats YOUR problem, not mine.
wait, i just realized you played the "go along with us and our opinions or leave card" when you said this:
" Either stop knocking it or go talk smack somewhere else."
uh....NO
if you take it personal, thats YOUR problem, not mine.
wait, i just realized you played the "go along with us and our opinions or leave card" when you said this:
" Either stop knocking it or go talk smack somewhere else."
uh....NO
