Another ATA 5 year old black belt

Steve

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Yep. It's another 30 bucks on top of the basic tuition at my niece's school, but they definitely push you to take a higher tier class since you can't really learn everything needed to advance if you pay only for 'basic' classes. Hmm, maybe meat for another topic.
FWIW, not as a comment on the instruction, but on the marketing scheme, this sort of thing pisses me off as a parent. This add-on BS would be enough alone to make sure you never got my business.
 

dancingalone

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FWIW, not as a comment on the instruction, but on the marketing scheme, this sort of thing pisses me off as a parent. This add-on BS would be enough alone to make sure you never got my business.

I'll start a new thread.
 

NSRTKD

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and that still makes you more knowledgeable about tkd than ata. Ha.ha.ha..(writer's note: I am only poking fun and ribbing ata. Ata like any other martial art has good and bad practitioners, but all we really hear about our the bad...such as this particular subject. I ask that the ata please not send there xma ninjas with their foam padded kamas to take me out as i am allergic to the material they use on them. Thank you)
bahahaha.....
 

miguksaram

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FWIW, not as a comment on the instruction, but on the marketing scheme, this sort of thing pisses me off as a parent. This add-on BS would be enough alone to make sure you never got my business.
But we see it in everything else. Buy a car. They will charge you extra for add ons...purchase most services and you will pay for an add-on service. Gyms are no different. You can get the basic equipment but if you want to do some of the aerobics classes you will have to pay extra. I don't have a problem with it. I do agree, that I would not give him my business, but that is only because I know that I can get more for less at other places.
 

Steve

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But we see it in everything else. Buy a car. They will charge you extra for add ons...purchase most services and you will pay for an add-on service. Gyms are no different. You can get the basic equipment but if you want to do some of the aerobics classes you will have to pay extra. I don't have a problem with it. I do agree, that I would not give him my business, but that is only because I know that I can get more for less at other places.
Which is why buying a car is something that is almost universally reviled. Would you want to associate with a business on a regular basis that uses the same tactics as a car lot? That's exactly my point.
 

miguksaram

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Which is why buying a car is something that is almost universally reviled. Would you want to associate with a business on a regular basis that uses the same tactics as a car lot? That's exactly my point.
Actually it was always the use car sales that have the stigma. Which (like ATA) is only a small area of the industry. What about gyms? What about cell phones? Pretty much everything has some sort of add-on. Just business as it is.
 

vikings827

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Does anyone actually know the requirements of making black belt for this particular 5 year old?

My 5 year old is about as graceful as a drunken giraffe, so I can't imagine her making a black belt before her teens, and that's not our "style" in our school anyways. My 5 year old has a striped yellow belt, and I have refused to let her test because in terms of technique, she's only at the level of a striped yellow belt, and barely, regardless of the fact that she remembers all the material. In our school, even a 5 year old has to retain all the previous forms and techniques taught and complete 13 one-steps plus know the meanings of all the forms and belts passed thus far. My daughter can do that, but because her kicks AT her belt level and below still look very beginner (I'm NOT saying this to be unsupportive and mean, and of course don't say things to her rudely, just being honest about the coordination of a 5 year old body) she hasn't earned a green belt, so I haven't let her test. I plan to let her test soon, since she is working hard and, now that she has mastered the forms, is very focused on technique (for a 5 year old), but if she earns her green belt (around the time she turns 6), she will stay there for quite a while, I imagine - possibly a year until I let her go for stripes, if she seems ready. She might surprise me, but it's my duty to hold her back when she wants to move faster than she is ready for, or when any instructor wants her to rank higher than she deserves.

What I'm getting at with this is that each child advances based on his/her ability, but I think it's also partly the parents' responsibility to teach their children NOT to get hung up on ranking at each testing, and encouraging the child to focus on correct technique before allowing the kid to test. As much as our instructors are in charge, ultimately, I'm the one who pays for testing, so if I pay for her to test clearly before she is ready, I'm partly at fault too, when she wears the next belt and faces endless frustration because she wasn't ready.

For my 5 year old, reverse side kicks are a huuuuge challenge. So would it be fair for me to let her test just because she can throw one successfully in front of the judges, or should I make her wait until she is confident in every (or most, at least) reverse side kick she throws, and no longer gets frustrated with herself over them?

My daughter is also a great singer, but should I put her in a broadway show or let her sing for the family at holidays? One will teach her that people love her performances and that she is awesome at it, and the other teaches her the very same thing without giving her nowhere "up from here" to go. I believe in equipping my children to make their own success when they are old enough to appreciate it, rather than giving them the illusion of success based on what I have paid for.

So while I guess, having not seen the requirements of the school and not seeing this particular "black belt" in action, I can't really say he doesn't deserve it for sure (although it's hard to say otherwise, really), I think it's important to remember that while the school is allowing this progression, the parents are obviously encouraging it too, and partly at fault. The public needs better education about what having a black belt means, and the parents need to think about not letting their children advance until they can comprehend the amount of work put into a black belt. This kid may (I have no crystal ball, it's just a guess) grow up and expect that he can earn everything faster and younger than everybody else, and be both disappointed in the world and disgruntled with his parents for providing him with false expectations.

This is quite similar to the grade inflation of our school aged kids. Parents cause both of these premature successes. The good side of this is it builds self confidence. The downside??? Helicoptering parents.
 

vikings827

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You are near a great kukkiwon TKD dojo. It is ABBC, in Lombard IL> My brother goes there, and I visited once. The owner and chief instructor is the BEST.
 

msmitht

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this is supposed to be about a 5 year old who is a black belt! Not marketing or hating the ata because their techniques lack real power and is not up to par with any other tkd orgs standards. There are pros and cons...blah blah blah. Anyone who thinks a 5 year old should wear a black belt is full of crap. You will never convince me or any real martial artist otherwise. I laugh at those who disagree and have pity for your students
 

Cyriacus

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This is what Junior Black Belts are for.

Give them the JBB to signify their Basic Knowledge of Techniques.
And hopefully by the time theyre 18, theyll be able to properly Apply those Techniques.
 

Master Dan

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Franklly I wish they would go back to 18 years old minimum but no matter what the excuse is its still all about the money and all the Pooms that convert after 15 so they are 3rd 4th dan rediculous Martial is half the meaning in Martial art which means military focused on some level would we call a Marine a Marine at 5 years old or 15? in most cases not! I commend the child and parents for training and healthy life style but the point in the Art that effort is its own reward has been totally lost and not traded for imaginary Gravatoss and pandering but this is what happens when you take a traditional native artform that was never meant to be for profit and change it to suite a Capitolist theme. The Asians are slowly dealing with the effects of this in the home land due to introducing the same value system to keep thier own kids interested and training. There is a need and place for youth and famly trianing but it should not be put on the same level as adult Martial training.
 

Twin Fist

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one guy teaching cheese makes us all look cheesy by association

it isnt fair, but it is what it is.

As much as this used to bug me, I find myself more and more indifferent. I know what my black belt means, I know what the belts I give out mean, I'm happy.
 

ETinCYQX

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one guy teaching cheese makes us all look cheesy by association

it isnt fair, but it is what it is.

Yeah but what can I do about it? Answer's simple. Get back on the mat and teach quality, high standard Taekwondo.
 

Twin Fist

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i would have no problem having a sit down conversation with the instructor in charge of the 2 yr old bb and ask him exactly what the **** he was thinking?
 

puunui

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Franklly I wish they would go back to 18 years old minimum but no matter what the excuse is its still all about the money and all the Pooms that convert after 15 so they are 3rd 4th dan rediculous


There was never any 18 year old minimum age requirement. USTU Past President LEE Moo Yong was nine years old when he was promoted to Moo Duk Kwan 1st Dan by GM HWANG Kee in 1952. He seems to have turned out ok.
 

Gemini

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At first glance, such articles make for easy targets. I thought this entire post provides a pov of a bigger picture. I just had to add a little.
On the one hand, I'm glad this kid's parents have him doing karate instead of eating doughnuts.
Unfortunately, all to rare. The effort alone makes me applaud the effort.

On the other hand, I bet I could kick his little black belt *** in a fight. So you have to put it all in perspective.
Fair enough, but I've never subscribed to this way of thinking. If you can beat me, do I surrender my belt? This has never been, not ever should be, a benchmark for receiving a Black belt. We can't all be Bruce Lee, but we can be a better "us". Forget the article, I'd like to see what the kid can do. I know so many teen and adult black belts with poor technique it makes me cringe. Why do we put so much emphasis on age alone? Quality of technique is not defined by age.

Maybe this is just the beginning of a lifetime of study and practice and dedication to martial arts.
This in my mind is the bottom. If you spend a lifetime studying, a black belt is only one of many stepping stones over a very long road. Why get so hung up about it. I say keep going kid and don't let anyone dissuade you. Maybe this whole thing is so much hype. We do have our share of BS. I really can't tell from just an article.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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So here we are again arguing about the color of the cloth around a child's waist and whether or not the little tyke deserves Reversi ranking.

Given that the belt is for competition bracketing and the little tyke will only be matched up against other little tykes in his age group who have the same amount of time in as he does, and only within the ATA, I see no problem with it.

It used to bother me a lot, and if you dig through here, you can find some of my posts on the subject.

Then I stopped taking myself so seriously and got off of my high horse. It's a kids program. The kid is doing something constructive and isn't in front of the television. Mom and dad are involved and the instructor seems to genuinely care about her students. Seems like a healthy activity to me.
 

Twin Fist

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and at that moment, the future of TKD being a laughing stock was set in stone............................



There was never any 18 year old minimum age requirement. USTU Past President LEE Moo Yong was nine years old when he was promoted to Moo Duk Kwan 1st Dan by GM HWANG Kee in 1952. He seems to have turned out ok.
 

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