A disturbing trend

[The MMA kid!]

well, first of all, I don't only compete to win, martial arts shouldn't be based entirely on sport IMO, but I personally compete just to compete, if I win, then I know that I am getting better, hell, everyone loves to win. just cuz you don't think you'll win, doesn't mean you shouldn't compete.

I paid 65$ to get my *** beat in a Brazilian JJ tournament after only practicing for about 4 months, sure I don't like the fact that I lost, but it was an experience that I could have NEVER gotten in class.

please pardon the language.
​

 

[fireman00]

Our instructors use it to pump up students when it comes to sparring, doing pushups or situps..." there's ALWAYS someone out there training harder then you - so to win you have to train with all that you have, leave nothing on the mat".

 

[Drac]

but it was an experience that I could have NEVER gotten in class

You are correct..My first Sensei was tough on all his students, there was a huge dropout rate..One day in class i was the ONLY white belt among Browns and Blacks..It stayed that way for a long time...I tried a different school years later and found it BORING compaired to how I started...

 

[Nomad]

Well,

The fact remains that there is always someone that is faster, stronger, etc. out there. Unless someone is at the absolute pinnacle of human evolution (we haven't reached that stage), this will pretty much remain true.

This is true, and how it is viewed depends on the attitude of the competitor. I love working with or sparring against people who are better than I am (in many different ways) because they can motivate and push me to bring myself up to their level. The fact that other people are better/stronger/faster than you is not a negative in my eyes. If I was the best in my dojo, it would be more difficult to motivate myself to achieve more, and more difficult to learn improvements (not impossible, but definitely harder).

 

[pstarr]

The point is that there's no way to know if you're the best that you can be...

Test yourself. If you think you can improve, get to work.

If not, give up.

 

[Kacey]

Well, first, I'm the one who said the phrase that caught Sam's attention; specifically, I said " There will always be someone stronger, better, faster - also younger, more flexible, more athletic, etc. That is the nature of life in general."

I do agree with Sam that too many people make excuses for their lack of effort - and that the concept that there will always be someone physically better is part of that. Too many people say "I won't ever be as good as person X, so I'm going to quit trying". That's why the next thing I said was "The question is, are you better than you were before? In the end, that's all that really matters." Too many people miss this part.

As far as the original statment, (which my instructor says all the time) the rest of it is "therefore, as you get older, you have to get smarter" - and that is a key as well, and not giving up because someone is physically better is tied into this as well - under the idea that (as my instrutor is also fond of saying) "age and treachery will win out over youth and speed"... but that can only happen if you continue to practice and improve your own abilities.

I have students who are younger, stronger, in better condition, taller, etc. - some who are all of these and more - but I know more than they do, and that makes up the difference. Only by continuing to train and improve in some fashion could that happen. That's why they're all afraid to spar me - because it only takes one shot, and I can get that one shot in on all of them, because I'm sneakier than they are - but it took a lot of practice to get there.

So that's the other side, what people who look past the physical see - but too many people don't ever reach that point, and, as Sam said, they quit because Person X is better... and they lose out in more ways that sparring matches or forms competition; they lose the chance to push their own limits, just because someone else's limits are different, and appear better.

 

[tradrockrat]

hows this for a pep talk?

My instructor came to me about four months after I started training for the nationals. He asked me what my goal was. I said to win of course, but really I wanted to see how well I could do.

His reply?

Your mom may be happy with your "best effort". But I know that your "best" is THE best. So if you don't win, you're not doing your best. If you want to compete - win. If you want to be the best martial artist, competition has very little to do with it. This is a sport. The point of a sport is to be the best. Now if you do what I ask and train as hard as you can I gaurantee you will win.

Afterwards, we can go back to training to be a martial artist. Right now you're a fighter.

 

[FearlessFreep]

That isn't what I meant either. A defeatist will not endeavor to be the best they can be.

I'm not really talking about being a defeatist but about settling when your best may be better than you think it is.

if you do 50 pushups and you think that's all you can manage, then eventually you will improve to do 60 ot 75 or a hundred. But if you see your friend who can do 75, and that motivates you to press just a little harder, maybe you reach 60..or even 70, when you thought 50 was your limit. So now you reach 100 sooner, and in the long run, your best was much better than you thought, because you sae someone who *was* better than you, and instead of just accepting that, you pushed to reach their level. Even if they are always just a little bit better than you, you can still drive to be as good as them, and allow your best to be better than you thought it could.

I had a sparring partner in class who was always faster then me, but rather than simply accept that he would always beat me with his speed, I worked to be quiker, to be smarter (he was fas, but I was older and had a bit more experience) I learned that I could do things I didn't think I could do, simply because I didn't want him to beat me. The best I could be was better than I thought, simply because I refused to allow him to beat me.

That happens to me all the time in class, I see someone doing something better than I am, and maybe better than I can right now, and it makes me redouble my effort to try harder and I fine that what I thought was my best was just the next step to something better

Yeah, there will always be someone out there better than me, but not because I let them be.

 

[Bigshadow]

I'm not really talking about being a defeatist but about settling when your best may be better than you think it is.

I understand what you mean and I didn't mean settling either. It is OK, to be motived by others or any other means. The bottom line is, be the best you can be. There is always more to do.

 

[exile]

if you do 50 pushups and you think that's all you can manage, then eventually you will improve to do 60 ot 75 or a hundred. But if you see your friend who can do 75, and that motivates you to press just a little harder, maybe you reach 60..or even 70, when you thought 50 was your limit. So now you reach 100 sooner, and in the long run, your best was much better than you thought,

This reminds me of one of the great touchstones of weight training: `Go to failure---but then do three more reps before you put the weight down.'

 

[charyuop]

In every tournement the champs change year after year (few times they can last 2 or 3 years). Martial Art is not you punch me that way I stop you than I am the best. Every single person has certain characteristics and some weak points. Some people suffer opponent with power, some opponent with speed, some opponent with longer reach, some opponents with better balance and so on. Winning a tournment means that (of course luck enters into it too)you haven't faced and opponent who had enough skill in what is your weak point. Mr A can beat Mr B and Mr B can beat Mr C....not for that Mr C cannot beat Mr A.
Some people see tournmet only as "I must win at any cost" purpose and I understand that. But realizing that you cannot always win a tournment shouldn't lead you into the decision to quit Martial Arts.
Practicing Martial Art has a different purpose from the "I am always gonna win" mentality, sorry but if people don't understand that they wasted all the time they trained MA.

 

[Adept]

The maxim 'There is always someone stronger, faster and better than you' is definately true. In fact, there will always be several people who are stronger and faster and better.

The question is, how many? And you get to decide the answer. The harder you train, the fewer people there are that are stronger or faster or better.

I think the creed of 'be the best you can be' has a negative impact. Of course someone can only be as good as they can be. They can't be as good as someone else can be, because then they would be that someone else and still only be as good as they are. If you follow.

The key, instead, is simply to try and be the best. Train for as long and as hard as your lifestyle allows. Train with the best people your location and funds will allow. Move yourself up in the ranks so the number of people who are stronger, faster and better becomes smaller. Narrow the gap between them and you as much as you can.

And always remember; while there will always be someone stronger, faster or better, there never has to be anyone sneakier or dirtier than you.

 

[charyuop]

I still think that Martial Art is far beyond than comparing with how others are good or better.
I can understand taking someone like a Master or a hero in history or movie as a model and wanting to "imitate" his skills. Models are important in our life, but practicing Martial Arts to compare to anyone else who practice Martial Art in my opinion is a huge limitation to the training itself (and I don't mean the "punch and kick" training).

 

[Carol]

As a young adult, I was hyperfocused on being the best musician I could be. Well, my mom was a music teacher, she started me on piano at like...age 3, so I literally had 15 years of experience by the age of 18 and was proficient on 4 different instruments. I earned a scholarship to, attended, and graduated from one of the finest music schools in the world...a school that was also THE finest in the world, bar none, for my chosen course of study. Got me some serious creds for being one of the best musicians around, don't I?

Mmmmkay Carol, so if you're the best how come I never heard of ya?

Because.....being "the best" and being "heard of" are two different things, and because being "the best" at something and being able to sustain a living at something are different things requireing different skillset. Club/showcase/album performances requrie networking, business, and legal skills. Teaching requires a TOTALLY different skillset than performing.

Plus, I gotta live. It would be kinda cool to simply show a copy of this prestigious degree that I'm about to earn along wiht my mad musical chops and just simply get whatever I want for being who I am. I could do something else, but then I wouldn't be the best anymore. Mozart was the best. Died penniless at 31 from syphillis and with his body tossed in an unmarked derelict's grave, but he was the best.

Personally? For a variety of different reasons, I decided that being the best musician may have been what I was or nearly becoming, but not where I wanted to stay. Instead, I chose to shape my interests with a mind towards career success and being the best overall person I can be.

We are all constricted by the same universal constant: TIME. We are all given the same amount. What we do with it is up to us. For me it proved to be far better to pursue excellence in all my interests, than to focus on a singular "best".

 

[Adept]

I still think that Martial Art is far beyond than comparing with how others are good or better.
I can understand taking someone like a Master or a hero in history or movie as a model and wanting to "imitate" his skills. Models are important in our life, but practicing Martial Arts to compare to anyone else who practice Martial Art in my opinion is a huge limitation to the training itself (and I don't mean the "punch and kick" training).

What should we use for a frame of reference if not our peers?

 

[Dark]

What should we use for a frame of reference if not our peers?

How about ourselves..? It just me but a truly focused person would be like the late Bruce Lee or even Ryu from the streetfighter anime, in which his sole goal is to achieve perfection by becoming better, not only stronger or faster but better as a human being then what he was. Thats just my observation of achievement, if our peers a lacking where we are not it becomes ourselves against the world..?

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I've been told that because I'm not Chinese/Japanese/Filipino that I could never be the "best" in any of those arts. That because I wasn't family, that I'd never get those "secrets". etc etc etc.

So, why waste my time since theres so much stacked against me and I can never be "the best"?

Because, the "best" is subjective. I seek to be MY best, the best I can be. I don't care about how others measure up. Oh, I'll test my self against them from time to time, try new things and seek out extras that interest me, but I'm not keeping score. There will always be someone better, someone who can train longer/harder/more intensely/etc. All I can do, is strive to be the best I can be, for in the end, the real battle is within.

 

[Adept]

How about ourselves..?

I don't think it's possible. I imagine the results would be like the character of Wimp Lo in Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist, who was trained all wrong and told he was the best as a joke.

If you never compare yourself to others, how can you know what the standard is? You have nothing to compare yourself against. At the very least, it's important to compare yourself to your instructor in an effort to emulate him.

if our peers a lacking where we are not it becomes ourselves against the world..?

Essentially, yes. If you're cleaning up at the locals, go to the state championships, then the nationals, then the international championships, and keep on going as high as you can.

 

[Dark]

I don't think it's possible. I imagine the results would be like the character of Wimp Lo in Kung-Pow: Enter the Fist, who was trained all wrong and told he was the best as a joke.

If you never compare yourself to others, how can you know what the standard is? You have nothing to compare yourself against. At the very least, it's important to compare yourself to your instructor in an effort to emulate him.

But didn't Musashi basically invent his own way and until Yip Man defeated him, Bruce Lee never learned kung-fu be prefered "street fighting" (reference to doing yourself MAs). Your only enemy is yourself so says many MA philosophies, there for that is what you much achieve power over.

I'm not saying test yourself against your idea of whats right, I'm saying test your idea of whats right with yourself. That means comparing how you stand against others to an extent but where you stand with yourself is a primary goal. It all this makes any sense to you, its kinda hard for me to think with all the pain killers I'm on...

 

[Adept]

But didn't Musashi basically invent his own way

Sure. From memory he also fought in sixty-odd duels to the death. If that isn't the ultimate comparison, I don't know what is!

and until Yip Man defeated him, Bruce Lee never learned kung-fu be prefered "street fighting" (reference to doing yourself MAs).

Certainly. But both men are at least partially famous not only for their skill, but for their systems they created. And I would argue that comparing themselves against their peers was the way in which they decided there was room for improvement.

Your only enemy is yourself so says many MA philosophies, there for that is what you much achieve power over.

I think the thrust behind that theory is to conquer your own laziness, arrogance and complacency rather than use only yourself as a yardstick.

I'm not saying test yourself against your idea of whats right, I'm saying test your idea of whats right with yourself. That means comparing how you stand against others to an extent but where you stand with yourself is a primary goal.

I'm afraid I don't follow exactly.

It all this makes any sense to you, its kinda hard for me to think with all the pain killers I'm on...

Training too hard? Hope you get better soon.