How many repetitions / Training in a dim environment

[Leviathan]

Hi!

Two questions about training on one's own outdoors:

• How many repetitions should one do when training a given technique? The more the better or is there a kind of optimal amount? I have noticed that after a while you're getting somehow tired (muscle fatigue, less focussed). Should one then stop and move to another drill or keep practicing that drill? Or it just doesn't matter? The more the better? I usually perform 3 - 4 sets of 20 repetitions of a given technique or combination on each side.

• I have noticed that I have more trouble practicing spin kicks in a dim environment. As days get shorter and shorter and my Muay Thai club is closed because of covid 19 measures I train more often outdoors and in a dim environment. The target is somehow lit but the rest usually isn't and is therefore (almost) totally dark. Although I do my best to spot the target before kicking I notice that I have more difficulties with balance and coordination than in a well-lit environment. Have you noticed that too? Should one avoid a dim environment then or just the opposite and view that as an opportunity to improve one's technique?

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Kind regards

 

[jobo]

Hi!

Two questions about training on one's own outdoors:

• How many repetitions should one do when training a given technique? The more the better or is there a kind of optimal amount? I have noticed that after a while you're getting somehow tired (muscle fatigue, less focussed). Should one then stop and move to another drill or keep practicing that drill? Or it just doesn't matter? The more the better? I usually perform 3 - 4 sets of 20 repetitions of a given technique or combination on each side.

• I have noticed that I have more trouble practicing spin kicks in a dim environment. As days get shorter and shorter and my Muay Thai club is closed because of covid 19 measures I train more often outdoors and in a dim environment. The target is somehow lit but the rest usually isn't and is therefore (almost) totally dark. Although I do my best to spot the target before kicking I notice that I have more difficulties with balance and coordination than in a well-lit environment. Have you noticed that too? Should one avoid a dim environment then or just the opposite and view that as an opportunity to improve one's technique?

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Kind regards

other will disagree, but when the technique starts to break down stop, youve done enough and there is nothing more to be gained

yes your balance suffers in the dark, just like it does if you close your eyes, upto you really if you continue to practice in dim conditions it will improve, just dont hurt yourself in the mean time

 

[isshinryuronin]

While balance is physiologically controlled mostly by the inner ear, eyesight mentally helps orient ourselves. This is, IMO, just habit as we are largely creatures of light and sight and have come to rely on our eyes as a crutch in this regard. Blind people do not seem to have balance/coordination problems, so as Jobo said, practice will improve performance in low light conditions. I often train with the lights turned off and used to practice blindfolded. I feel this is very helpful in developing body orientation and control, balance, confidence and overall awareness of one's self.

 

[JowGaWolf]

other will disagree, but when the technique starts to break down stop, youve done enough and there is nothing more to be gained

I agree with this. For me this is also a safety issue, because it that same sloppiness that causes me to get injured. I stop when I can no longer hold the technique. Similar to when I lift weights. When I feel the technique starting to fall apart, I know that I'm a few reps from being sloppy, then a few reps from being injured.

In the past I tried to prove that this wasn't the case and each time an injury showed me the reality of things.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How many repetitions should one do when training a given technique?

Instead of training single technique, if you train combos, you can also train how to use 1 technique to set up another technique. 20 reps on one side is my favor.

For example, side kick, spin back fist.

 

[Leviathan]

@ kung-fu wang: yes I often practice combinations but usually because I find it more difficult to perform the technique after that. Performing a spin back kick is not too difficult but if you do a jab-cross-hook punch before then it becomes more complex to launch a clean spin back kick (for me at least). Even making a small step before the technique can change a lot. I can perform a decent spin hook kick on a stand-alone basis but inserting that in a sparring or in a combination is another story.

I hope practicing techniques in a less than optimal environment (dim, combo) will help me perform better in general (even if it is frustrating at first 'cause you notice you su**).

 

[dvcochran]

@ kung-fu wang: yes I often practice combinations but usually because I find it more difficult to perform the technique after that. Performing a spin back kick is not too difficult but if you do a jab-cross-hook punch before then it becomes more complex to launch a clean spin back kick (for me at least). Even making a small step before the technique can change a lot. I can perform a decent spin hook kick on a stand-alone basis but inserting that in a sparring or in a combination is another story.

I hope practicing techniques in a less than optimal environment (dim, combo) will help me perform better in general (even if it is frustrating at first 'cause you notice you su**).

Do you possibly have a mirror you can shadow box in front of? This is a great way to see and practice your technique. Then when you are outside in the dark doing target work the moves should be smoother. I do agree that sight affects balance but correct repetition can overcome a Lot of this.

 

[Leviathan]

Hi Dvcochran,

No I don't have any suitable mirror.

Depending on light conditions I could use the doors/windows when training on my terrace but that's definitely not as good as a mirror. And in the morning or in the evening it's dark in northern Germany, so forget about those doors/windows.

I usually check whether my foot is roughly at target level and whether the technique is controlled or not. If I remain in control and well balanced, that's a good sign. Should I loose balance or if it feels unnatural or poorly controlled then there is something wrong.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Mirrors. A double edged sword. On the one hand, they are great to check your posture, form and position, and provide a "target" for your techniques. On the other hand, they are seductive - who doesn't like to watch themselves in action. It's hard for even the less egotistical of us to pass by a mirror without checking ourselves out. "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

Mirrors can draw you into the visual orientation of your body at the expense of neglecting the stronger physical orientation. You end up being a spectator to your workout, rather than the executor of it. Maybe by videoing your mirrorless workout one can concentrate on the physical, then play back the video and concentrate on the visual as an observer. The best of both worlds.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

if you do a jab-cross-hook punch before then it becomes more complex to launch a clean spin back kick (for me at least).

In a combo, the end of the previous move (compress) should be the beginning of your next move (release). If the transition is not smooth, it's not a good combo.

 

[dvcochran]

Mirrors. A double edged sword. On the one hand, they are great to check your posture, form and position, and provide a "target" for your techniques. On the other hand, they are seductive - who doesn't like to watch themselves in action. It's hard for even the less egotistical of us to pass by a mirror without checking ourselves out. "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

Mirrors can draw you into the visual orientation of your body at the expense of neglecting the stronger physical orientation. You end up being a spectator to your workout, rather than the executor of it. Maybe by videoing your mirrorless workout one can concentrate on the physical, then play back the video and concentrate on the visual as an observer. The best of both worlds.

That is why I suggested them as a compliment to his contact drills. An extremely helpful tool when working on your own.
I get the vanity in context and Yes I know it happens in the MA world but I sincerely hope it is the exception. I know I have ripped on more than a few students for preening in front of the mirrors. We have a 72' long wall covered in mirrors. They are a great training tool and extremely efficient. A school or instructor cannot let them devolve into what you are describing. That is part of setting the tone of class. If someone chooses to do it on their own time that is out of my control.

 

[_Simon_]

Mirrors. A double edged sword. On the one hand, they are great to check your posture, form and position, and provide a "target" for your techniques. On the other hand, they are seductive - who doesn't like to watch themselves in action. It's hard for even the less egotistical of us to pass by a mirror without checking ourselves out. "Mirror, mirror on the wall..."

Mirrors can draw you into the visual orientation of your body at the expense of neglecting the stronger physical orientation. You end up being a spectator to your workout, rather than the executor of it. Maybe by videoing your mirrorless workout one can concentrate on the physical, then play back the video and concentrate on the visual as an observer. The best of both worlds.

YES. That's a really good point, while mirrors are great feedback, they can keep you more in spectator mode than participant.

I noticed this with all the online Zoom training I've been doing. When I have myself up on one of the little gallery screens, I find myself often seeing how my technique 'looks' on there rather than focusing on my movement. It's quite a strange disconnect... and it can foster too much of a sense of ambition and 'want to' create a perfect image. And also in seeing that I'm positioned okay in the screen for feedback haha.

But it can certainly take away from focusing on your movement dynamics and how it all feels!

 

[_Simon_]

In a combo, the end of the previous move (compress) should be the beginning of your next move (release). If the transition is not smooth, it's not a good combo.

Ah... that's like poetry my friend

 

[Leviathan]

In a combo, the end of the previous move (compress) should be the beginning of your next move (release). If the transition is not smooth, it's not a good combo.

Makes perfect sense but it triggers a question in my mind: should we differentiate between combos for a fight / sparring and combos for the purpose of training the technique?

In a sparring you want swift combinations to strike your opponent. When training could it make sense to use odd combos to drill your technique and skills? For example roundhouse high kick from your back leg, putting your striking leg down in front and then punching from the back hand (a cross); it is quite difficult because if you lean your torso back too much it is hard to come all the way back for the punch. Not a quick combo but maybe good to learn control. What do you think?

By the way: thank you all for your answers. That is very kind of you and very helpful.

 

[jobo]

Makes perfect sense but it triggers a question in my mind: should we differentiate between combos for a fight / sparring and combos for the purpose of training the technique?

In a sparring you want swift combinations to strike your opponent. When training could it make sense to use odd combos to drill your technique and skills? For example roundhouse high kick from your back leg, putting your striking leg down in front and then punching from the back hand (a cross); it is quite difficult because if you lean your torso back too much it is hard to come all the way back for the punch. Not a quick combo but maybe good to learn control. What do you think?

By the way: thank you all for your answers. That is very kind of you and very helpful.

no not really, its a progression, you want to drill combos for sparing and you want to spar to prqctice the combos for fighting, what ever that " fightibg is, point sparing, competicion with variys degrees of contact and actually fighting, if you dont have a sports outlet
there hasto be a conection between what your drilling and fighting,, if there isnt your doing it wrong or doibg the wrong things at least,

learning to kick and follow that with a punch, all though perhaps ungainly, is teall what you need to be working on.

the guy not goibg to stand there whilst you kick him 10 different ways, he is either going to back out of kicking range or close the gap so you cant kick him, just about anything but stand still whilst you unleash you kicking cpmbos

 

[isshinryuronin]

Makes perfect sense but it triggers a question in my mind: should we differentiate between combos for a fight / sparring and combos for the purpose of training the technique?

In a sparring you want swift combinations to strike your opponent. When training could it make sense to use odd combos to drill your technique and skills? For example roundhouse high kick from your back leg, putting your striking leg down in front and then punching from the back hand (a cross); it is quite difficult because if you lean your torso back too much it is hard to come all the way back for the punch. Not a quick combo but maybe good to learn control. What do you think?

By the way: thank you all for your answers. That is very kind of you and very helpful.

The roundhouse kick, step in and reverse punch combo is no problem - If you do the following:
1. keep the kick below chest height. it's safer for your nuts and you don't need to lean back at all.
2. keep your hands in the guard position while kicking. your weapons are close to the target after kicking and you
have defense. you can use your lead hand to immobilize opponent's lead arm as you step in and maybe turn him
a little for the reverse/cross.
It can be a quick and effective combo in training and fighting.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hi!

Two questions about training on one's own outdoors:

• How many repetitions should one do when training a given technique? The more the better or is there a kind of optimal amount? I have noticed that after a while you're getting somehow tired (muscle fatigue, less focussed). Should one then stop and move to another drill or keep practicing that drill? Or it just doesn't matter? The more the better? I usually perform 3 - 4 sets of 20 repetitions of a given technique or combination on each side.

• I have noticed that I have more trouble practicing spin kicks in a dim environment. As days get shorter and shorter and my Muay Thai club is closed because of covid 19 measures I train more often outdoors and in a dim environment. The target is somehow lit but the rest usually isn't and is therefore (almost) totally dark. Although I do my best to spot the target before kicking I notice that I have more difficulties with balance and coordination than in a well-lit environment. Have you noticed that too? Should one avoid a dim environment then or just the opposite and view that as an opportunity to improve one's technique?

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Thanks.

Kind regards

If you're trying to develop muscle endurance, then there may be some benefit to working to and even beyond muscle fatigue. The research I've looked at suggests there's little skill benefit to high repetition in a single session, regardless of muscle fatigue. After the first few sessions (when a learner may need high repetitions just to get to something ressembling "correct"), it looks like the highest benefit is from the first few reps. So, when you're not doing some deep examination of technique (where you may spend much longer, playing with variations and changes), you're probably going to get more benefit from doing more techniques, and fewer reps of each. I've forgotten what the numbers were in the studies, but I've filed away in my head that something on the order of a dozen reps is the target when you're not working on specific changes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Makes perfect sense but it triggers a question in my mind: should we differentiate between combos for a fight / sparring and combos for the purpose of training the technique?

In a sparring you want swift combinations to strike your opponent. When training could it make sense to use odd combos to drill your technique and skills? For example roundhouse high kick from your back leg, putting your striking leg down in front and then punching from the back hand (a cross); it is quite difficult because if you lean your torso back too much it is hard to come all the way back for the punch. Not a quick combo but maybe good to learn control. What do you think?

By the way: thank you all for your answers. That is very kind of you and very helpful.

If you're just training to be able to use the combos in sparring, then you could reasonably stick to practicing those combos. If you want to broaden the effect (better balance and coordination, in general), then odd combos are quite good for that. And sometimes, those odd combos teach you something useful about the technique, or even become usable in odd situations when sparring.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

should we differentiate between

- combos for a fight / sparring and
- combos for the purpose of training the technique?

Should one train tornado kick that he will never use in fighting? IMO, after you have proved that you can do it, you should not spend any more time into it. Life is too short to do everything.

I have seen people who trains side kick, elbow strike combo. After your side kick, the distance will be too far to use your elbow strike. This kind of combo doesn't make logic sense.

For example roundhouse high kick from your back leg, putting your striking leg down in front and then punching from the back hand (a cross); it is quite difficult because if you lean your torso back too much it is hard to come all the way back for the punch. Not a quick combo but maybe good to learn control. What do you think?

High kick and head punch is not a good combo. Waist level kick (or groin kick) and head punch is good combo. When your opponent drops his arm to block your body kick, his face will be open for your punch.

Kick low and punch high make logic sense.