100% use of power to punch?

[mantis]

punch with your knee if you could. that's the only time i understand lifting the heel to generate power.
yes you may generate more power by lifting the heel (im not even sure you could) but the downside to that makes it a bad idea to do that. you should always make sure your weight is not rushing forward.

 

[kingkong89]

yes by doing this you are able to put all your body into the puch making it as powerful as possible

 

[Touch Of Death]

punch with your knee if you could. that's the only time i understand lifting the heel to generate power.
yes you may generate more power by lifting the heel (im not even sure you could) but the downside to that makes it a bad idea to do that. you should always make sure your weight is not rushing forward.

Why should you --always-- not launch your body weight forward?
Sean

 

[pstarr]

It's easy to hyperextend your technique and lose your balance (even slightly) forward. This allows the opponent, if he has real fighting skill, to exploit your vulnerability since, in an unbalanced state, you are unable to effectively defend yourself.

If the rear heel is raised at the moment of impact, you will lose the ability to generate shock as opposed to force. This is why most of the old traditionalists forbade it.

This isn't to say that you can't hit hard with your rear heel elevated. But you could hit much harder (if your technique is correct) if you drive the sole of the rear foot down as you execute the blow.

 

[Touch Of Death]

It's easy to hyperextend your technique and lose your balance (even slightly) forward. This allows the opponent, if he has real fighting skill, to exploit your vulnerability since, in an unbalanced state, you are unable to effectively defend yourself.

If the rear heel is raised at the moment of impact, you will lose the ability to generate shock as opposed to force. This is why most of the old traditionalists forbade it.

This isn't to say that you can't hit hard with your rear heel elevated. But you could hit much harder (if your technique is correct) if you drive the sole of the rear foot down as you execute the blow.

I disagree that you are unbalanced. Balance is your ability to maintain stability. The degree of difficulty is highter. Who cares which method is more powerfull if they are both powerefull enough to get the job done. The heel up method is a mobility over stability tech. It is not inferior to the heel down method. They are just two seperate ways of punching which can be utilized when needed. "An ounce of Logic is worth a ton of tradition."
Sean

 

[pstarr]

Trust me, if you're hyperextended, you're unbalanced. I didn't say that if you lift your heel, you're unbalanced...I said that lifting the heel makes it easier to hyperextend your technique and thus, become unbalanced.

If you lean forward when you punch, you're unbalanced. Period.

As for caring about which method is superior so long as it's strong enough to get the job done....how do you know how much power is enough to get the job done?

The function of the flat-foot method is to allow you to maximize the destructive power with which you strike your opponent while simultaneously maintaining stability (so long as your posture is correct).

And keeping the rear foot flat at the instant of impact is not at all detrimental to mobility. Not even a little.

 

[Touch Of Death]

So don't hyperextend yourself when you punch with your heel up. I manage to punch heel up without leaning forward; so, I'm not off balance. And all you heel down guys do so well in the UFC, and I say it effects your mobility a lot, starting with a lack of launch.
Sean

 

[charyuop]

So don't hyperextend yourself when you punch with your heel up. I manage to punch heel up without leaning forward; so, I'm not off balance. And all you heel down guys do so well in the UFC, and I say it effects your mobility a lot, starting with a lack of launch.
Sean

What if you miss? If your opponent instead of taking the punch or blocking it simply avoids it? Your punch if misses the target will lead you forward if you are not well balanced. Would be enough to pull the arm or push on your shoulder to make you realize how unstable your balance actually was.
I would prefere having a good balance and being able to shoot a 1-2 (as a combo of two punches) than taking the risk with one missing punch and down I go.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Syn]

In Hung Gar, I forget what the technique was reffered to as but we keep our hands completely loose, and right before we make contact we tighten into a fist. Kind of like float like a butterfly sting like a bee, and when done properly, while punching it should sort of make a whip cracking sound. And we lean our upper body in a little to give the punch weight, but keep our lower body center dug in and grounded, so that we won't loose our balance, and can actually apply the body weight, instead of our body just scooting backwards.

 

[mantis]

In Hung Gar, I forget what the technique was reffered to as but we keep our hands completely loose, and right before we make contact we tighten into a fist. Kind of like float like a butterfly sting like a bee, and when done properly, while punching it should sort of make a whip cracking sound. And we lean our upper body in a little to give the punch weight, but keep our lower body center dug in and grounded, so that we won't loose our balance, and can actually apply the body weight, instead of our body just scooting backwards.

exactly it's like hitting someone with a rope tied to a rock at the end of it. Your description of this punch may not be the description for a 100% powered punch (although very powerful with proper connection to hip) but it's definitely a smart punch that takes into account the possibility of facing an opponent with good defense. it's a good strategy to always think 'oh, whats going to happen if i get blocked, or if i miss'?
when you take your heel off the ground and miss then you're gone, arent you?

 

[pstarr]

Yes - with the heel up you have a real tendency to hyper-extend your body and/or lean too far forward, especially if you miss your intended target. A veteran fighter will lull you into launching a punch at him, evade your blow, and then take advantage of your unstable position. It only takes a second.

 

[mantis]

so maybe taking a step forward with the forward foot helps. this way you will have a wider base to distribute your weight on, and you will take advantage of energy moving forward without having to deal with the risk of being plucked or pushed or being out of balance.

 

[pstarr]

That'll help insofar as stability goes but part of the problem is in the reaction force of your own blow - it travels back down through your body and to the driving (rear) foot. If the heel is raised, the flexed ankle absorbs much of that (reaction) force and it can't "bounce" off the ground and return to the point of impact a second time (this is "shock").

You can feel this phenomenon if you place your fist against a striking post or other firm object, adopt your punching stance, and press the fist into the target (without leaning). The driving (rear) foot wants to press down.

If you do the same thing in a flat-footed posture, you can really feel the force of your press traveling down into the sole of your rear foot.

 

[charyuop]

Ankle and knee. Once you lift the heel to punch thus using it like a pushing base you will most certainly lock your knee and this way part of the body weight shifts there too.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That'll help insofar as stability goes but part of the problem is in the reaction force of your own blow - it travels back down through your body and to the driving (rear) foot. If the heel is raised, the flexed ankle absorbs much of that (reaction) force and it can't "bounce" off the ground and return to the point of impact a second time (this is "shock").

You can feel this phenomenon if you place your fist against a striking post or other firm object, adopt your punching stance, and press the fist into the target (without leaning). The driving (rear) foot wants to press down.

If you do the same thing in a flat-footed posture, you can really feel the force of your press traveling down into the sole of your rear foot.

Yes, I agree it is a different punch and with the heel up you are, in effect, bouncing your body weight off of or into the target. That is why I use both methods. This is not a new debate. I read about this and the possible self inflicted damage in a seventies "Destroyer" novel when I was in junior high. If your target is the spine then either method will destroy the bone and tissue in between. Heel up is not as pretty in forms because there is no self imposed breaking; so, the breaks are your opponent. If he moves you are screwed, but its not like you are sitting pretty when you miss with the other method. It is a judgement call and unless you are a close range fighter I would avoid heel up too.
Sean

 

[jasonearle]

ok. there are a number of principles in a punch that can increase its power and effectiveness from what I have learned in my training. I'm talking about a finishing strike or major move, not a quick jab or a set up move. Lifting the heel off the ground when your punching with your back hand, allows you to move more quickly giving you that rotational torque to add power to the punch. Bone alignment is also a great principle to add power so you don't break something because you punched wrong and you have more behind your punch. Putting something behind you punch is a principle called back-up mass. so, bone aligment is a component of back-up mass because one bone is behind the other adding to the amount of pressure applied when the strike makes contact. When the strike makes contact, I drop my heel, whick also adds to the back up mass and solidifies the punch. Settling, or dropping your weight, (dropping the heel and slightly bending the knees), also solidifies your weight and is a precursor to another principle called, marriage of gravity. Basically you are using a stomp to the ground to pull energy up through your body, adding more power to the strike. I'm talking about kinetic energy. Its easier to see in application then to explain in words. if you've been hit by someone using this principle, then no further explanation is needed. Relaxation is a big one. Relax to the point of impact or you will loose speed and power because your movement will be almost stuttered. Try tightening your whole arm and throwing an effective punch and then try it totally relaxed and see the difference. There are more but I don't want this to get too long for now, so if you would like me to elaborate more or have questions, let me know.